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Reinsdorf assures Ron that Abreu will always be a White Sox

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44 minutes ago, Tony said:

Jeff Passan, the best reporter in MLB and with no emotional attachment to Chicago, said this yesterday: 

“It all depends on the price. Even if the White Sox drafted his replacement in Andrew Vaughn, the White Sox don’t have a DH right now. If you want to bring Abreu back, doing so on a two year deal worth 25 million or so is a very reasonable thing to do. It’s just there are so many guys right now with his profile, guys who can hit 30 HR and get on base 32% of the time. If José Abreu was getting on at a .350 clip like he was at the start of the career, different story. I just don’t think there will be a lot of bidders for a 33 year old. 33 year old bats don’t get a lot of play in free agency.”

And I don’t disagree with that at all. 

OK then we agree cause Passan says he should be paid just what Vile and I said he should be paid. I am Vile's mini me. ... One shot on Passan by me: There are a ton of guys who can hit 30 HR and get on base 32 percent of the time? The Sox haven't found too many of those guys thru history.

Edited by greg775
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4 hours ago, greg775 said:

OK then we agree cause Passan says he should be paid just what Vile and I said he should be paid. I am Vile's mini me. ... One shot on Passan by me: There are a ton of guys who can hit 30 HR and get on base 32 percent of the time? The Sox haven't found too many of those guys thru history.

Agreed, if these guys are so easy to find, can we get one in right field for the games this weekend. 

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32 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Agreed, if these guys are so easy to find, can we get one in right field for the games this weekend. 

Yes, because Passan was talking about right fielders, not first basemen / DH types.

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10 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

Right now, Abreu has two more home runs than Machado, 25 more RBIs and a better OPS than Machado. I don't begin to get it. 

No idea what Machado has to do with Abreu.  Manny was 26 years old last offseason, while Abreu will be entering his age 33 season.  One plays above well average defense at a position of skill while the other is a DH who happens to play a terrible 1B.  Citing only their offensive stats (without accounting for the differences in home parks no less) and trying to rationalize any argument is just plain dumb.  

I love Jose and would love to see him back, but rewarding him with more than a two year deal at a reasonable price is straight-up emotional decision-making and it would likely reduce our ability to build a winner.  Loyalty should be rewarded to some extent, but that does not mean we should hand him a starting role indefinitely or overpay him for past production.  Extending Jose beyond his age 34 season at this point in time would be absolute insanity.

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9 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

And who would that replacement be?  Do Robert or Mandrigal play 1st base? I didn't know that. 

Is it A. J. Reed in AAA?

Is it Sheets in AA with his .261 average and his .763 OPS?

No wait, it's Vaughn. He was the best batter in college ball last year (I hear that quote over and over). He is dominating Single A pitching to the toon of batting .250 with a OPS of .765. Is he gonna be in the majors next year?  . . .  nope. Or the year after that . . .  nope. Probably by 2022, but not a sure thing. And by then Abreu, as history strongly indicates, will have 60 more career home runs and about 200 more career RBIs.

Pay the man what he has earned and deserves.  

Do some research man.  Sheets’ OPS ranks 15th in the entire league and he’s amongst the best hitters since mid May.

Vaughn was 38% above average in Low A and is currently 22% above average in High A.  This is the kid’s draft year and he’s already displaying signs of being an elite hitter, such as a 14% BB rate and 12% K rate for W-S.  The BABIP will go up and normalize with time and the power will be in full force next season.  I’d wager large some sums of money that Vaughn is pushing for a major league spot by the end of next season.  He’s completely outperformed Madrigal in his draft season and look how quickly Nick has advanced this year (should be in the majors already).  You are once again being emotional and thinking with dick and not your brain.

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7 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Yet another terrific post.  My compliments.   😀

Why is this a terrific post?  You actually want to overpay Jose and risk locking in below average production at some point in time?  It’s hard to take your endless criticisms of Jerry seriously when you’re advocating unwavering loyalty here.

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5 hours ago, greg775 said:

OK then we agree cause Passan says he should be paid just what Vile and I said he should be paid. I am Vile's mini me. ... One shot on Passan by me: There are a ton of guys who can hit 30 HR and get on base 32 percent of the time? The Sox haven't found too many of those guys thru history.

You’re missing the point.  A .320 OBP is not good, which suggests Abreu is a power or nothing hitter right now and those guys have limited value.

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

No idea what Machado has to do with Abreu.  Manny was 26 years old last offseason, while Abreu will be entering his age 33 season.  One plays above well average defense at a position of skill while the other is a DH who happens to play a terrible 1B.  Citing only their offensive stats (without accounting for the differences in home parks no less) and trying to rationalize any argument is just plain dumb.  

I love Jose and would love to see him back, but rewarding him with more than a two year deal at a reasonable price is straight-up emotional decision-making and it would likely reduce our ability to build a winner.  Loyalty should be rewarded to some extent, but that does not mean we should hand him a starting role indefinitely or overpay him for past production.  Extending Jose beyond his age 34 season at this point in time would be absolute insanity.

I agree but in fairness Abreu has hit 16 of his 28 HR on the road. 

Edited by SCCWS

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The oft repeated theme that Jose is a butcher in the field is overused IMO.  Most players have a strongest and weakest tool.  The GG fielder who can't hit...the speed merchant who can't steal 1st base... the good hitter who clogs the bases.  I think he does an adequate job and is actually good at digging balls out of the dirt.  He certainly wins more games with his bat than he cost us with his glove.

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’re missing the point.  A .320 OBP is not good, which suggests Abreu is a power or nothing hitter right now and those guys have limited value.

It's not very good, but it's 3rd on the White Sox. They are also 13th out of 15 in Home Runs in the AL. Very few teams win these days without hitting homers by the truckload. Jose will sign a short term deal for not a lot of money. The Sox have several other problems to fix before the apparent Jose Abreu "problem". 

Edited by Dick Allen
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18 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It's not very good, but it's 3rd on the White Sox. They are also 13th out of 15 in Home Runs in the AL. Very few teams win these days without hitting homers by the truckload. Jose will sign a short term deal for not a lot of money. The Sox have several other problems to fix before the apparent Jose Abreu "problem". 

That more people complain about Abreu than the actual garbage on this roster (Sanchez/Engel/Castillo/Detwiler/Osich/Santiago etc.) has always been amusing to me

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25 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

That more people complain about Abreu than the actual garbage on this roster (Sanchez/Engel/Castillo/Detwiler/Osich/Santiago etc.) has always been amusing to me

People complain about Abreu because it is obvious to everyone that those guys are garbage, and besides the point, they're roster filler until guys return from injury or get called up. Abreu isn't necessarily garbage, but he isn't good either. He's barely above replacement level. 

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What bothers me is this kills all leverage. So what, were going to match or come close to all other offers? This is a historically frugal owner. We can't afford to overpay am aging slugger. Hahn needs to be extremely smart in his spending given our limitations. 15m down the hatch 2 or 3 years from now will hurt. 

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6 minutes ago, ron883 said:

What bothers me is this kills all leverage. So what, were going to match or come close to all other offers? This is a historically frugal owner. We can't afford to overpay am aging slugger. Hahn needs to be extremely smart in his spending given our limitations. 15m down the hatch 2 or 3 years from now will hurt. 

Not sure if this is an actual post or a “Ron” post so I apologize if it’s the latter, but in terms of leverage, I don’t think Abreu is talking to other teams if what Abreu and now JR say is true. If neither party wants to split, I would assume something gets done quick in the offseason. 

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1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

That more people complain about Abreu than the actual garbage on this roster (Sanchez/Engel/Castillo/Detwiler/Osich/Santiago etc.) has always been amusing to me

Those guys aren't worth 1 second of discussion.

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2 hours ago, ron883 said:

What bothers me is this kills all leverage. So what, were going to match or come close to all other offers? This is a historically frugal owner. We can't afford to overpay am aging slugger. Hahn needs to be extremely smart in his spending given our limitations. 15m down the hatch 2 or 3 years from now will hurt. 

The player who says "I want to play here the rest of my career. If they don't resign me, I'll resign myself" (or something along those lines) hasn't killed his leverage?

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2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

People complain about Abreu because it is obvious to everyone that those guys are garbage, and besides the point, they're roster filler until guys return from injury or get called up. Abreu isn't necessarily garbage, but he isn't good either. He's barely above replacement level. 

Then how come the Sox only have 3 players with a better OBP, no players with more home runs, and no players with more doubles? 

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4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why is this a terrific post?  You actually want to overpay Jose and risk locking in below average production at some point in time?  It’s hard to take your endless criticisms of Jerry seriously when you’re advocating unwavering loyalty here.

It was a terrific post, in my opinion, because I thought the poster did a nice job of putting into context what Abreu has meant to the organization, and then simply advocated the team not nickle and dime someone of his caliber on the next contract with the guy. 

I believe the poster suggested a three year, $36M contract, which I don't believe is overpaying him, and even if it was, not by enough for anyone to get their knickers in a bunch over. 

I don't believe this qualifies as me supporting "unwavering loyalty" to the guy, either.  You have to admit, that might have been a teensy weensy hyperbolic on your end to suggest as much.  

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2 hours ago, ron883 said:

What bothers me is this kills all leverage. So what, were going to match or come close to all other offers? This is a historically frugal owner. We can't afford to overpay am aging slugger. Hahn needs to be extremely smart in his spending given our limitations. 15m down the hatch 2 or 3 years from now will hurt. 

LOL - "leverage", "overpay", "limitations", "15M down the hatch...will hurt"        :lolhitting

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12 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

It was a terrific post, in my opinion, because I thought the poster did a nice job of putting into context what Abreu has meant to the organization, and then simply advocated the team not nickle and dime someone of his caliber on the next contract with the guy. 

I believe the poster suggested a three year, $36M contract, which I don't believe is overpaying him, and even if it was, not by enough for anyone to get their knickers in a bunch over. 

I don't believe this qualifies as me supporting "unwavering loyalty" to the guy, either.  You have to admit, that might have been a teensy weensy hyperbolic on your end to suggest as much.  

What exactly has he done that is so great? He's had some productive years as a 1st basemen. Ya know, Alex Rios had some productive years in our OF. Why not guarantee Rios a coaching job while we are at it?

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18 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Then how come the Sox only have 3 players with a better OBP, no players with more home runs, and no players with more doubles? 

Idk if you've noticed this, but the White Sox are not a good baseball team. 

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3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

It's not very good, but it's 3rd on the White Sox. They are also 13th out of 15 in Home Runs in the AL. Very few teams win these days without hitting homers by the truckload. Jose will sign a short term deal for not a lot of money. The Sox have several other problems to fix before the apparent Jose Abreu "problem". 

And I want to bring him back on a short-term deal, just explaining to Greg that he’s not a stud simply because of 30 HR’s & 100 RBI’s.  He has flaws that bring down his value to some extent, which was Passan’s point.

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