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Jose Abreu

Sox fire Matt Lisle/Matt Lisle quits (?)

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1 minute ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

Hahn probably does believe in analytics but most coaches in the industry are still old school and they don't like taking orders, especially from nerds who didnt play pro ball.

When you tell them to change they will tell you they played peo ball and always did it like that. If you have a large group of "we did like we always did" people and they are standing together this is hard to overcome in a company even for a ceo. If it is one or two you fire him but if it is the whole org that is like a living organism.

You can still change that but that requires cleaning the entire house and that is painful and makes you hated. Hahn probably wants change but he doesn't want the big conflict, he wants to fire a few, hire a few new ones who are more progressive and hopes to create that change silently over a longer period but this doesn't really work.

Sox generally seem to be a tenure org which means if you have a certain tenure and you prove to be reasonably competent you will get promoted. Also some guys probably have a direct thread to jerry and this hahn doesn't dare to touch them.

I believe all of that is true, which is why Hahn should have a hard time looking at himself in the mirror.  He's the GM and he's cucked.

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1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, I have no idea how you can be as smart and educated as he is, and not look around and see the immense benefit analytics have had on successful organizations.

I am curious as to which analytics Eno is talking about though. Their scouting department certainly bought in and used advance analytics for drafting and trading. I would love to know where the disconnect is happening.

Hahn did bring analytics people. The question is who has the final decision. It seems like with the sox using those analytics informations is a bit optional. You are provided with them and you are free to use them but if you prefer gut feel in a decision that is fine too.

Especially on field coaching (hitting coaches...) it is often still a bit more old school.

The difference with the astros is they enforce using the analytics and luhnow is willing to clean out an entire department if they resist.

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3 minutes ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

Hahn probably does believe in analytics but most coaches in the industry are still old school and they don't like taking orders, especially from nerds who didnt play pro ball.

When you tell them to change they will tell you they played peo ball and always did it like that. If you have a large group of "we did like we always did" people and they are standing together this is hard to overcome in a company even for a ceo. If it is one or two you fire him but if it is the whole org that is like a living organism.

You can still change that but that requires cleaning the entire house and that is painful and makes you hated. Hahn probably wants change but he doesn't want the big conflict, he wants to fire a few, hire a few new ones who are more progressive and hopes to create that change silently over a longer period but this doesn't really work.

Sox generally seem to be a tenure org which means if you have a certain tenure and you prove to be reasonably competent you will get promoted. Also some guys probably have a direct thread to jerry and this hahn doesn't dare to touch them.

If rick cleans house, he’s the next to get fired. 

 

The jerry loyalty plan applies to most of his front office. Look at ken Williams. 

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11 hours ago, PolishPrince34 said:

Eno Sarris of Athletic totally put down the White Sox in his chat saying they don’t provide game plans to their minor league players and hire analytics people and no one in the organization listen to them. Regarding the Lisle firing. Crazy stuff

I found the quote. The game plan thing specifically mentions the White Sox. Lisle isn't mentioned at all though. And the not listening to analytics people thing says "some teams." Not specifically the White Sox.

image.png

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I also found Fegan's explanation of the Lisle thing in his Q&A, but not sure how much premium content I should be sharing.

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18 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I also found Fegan's explanation of the Lisle thing in his Q&A, but not sure how much premium content I should be sharing.

Can you summarize at a high level for those that don’t l?

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Quote

Lisle’s contract wasn’t renewed at the end of the minor-league year after a season where it was tough for him to make that measurable impact in a system-wide roving role. It’s hard to ignore the difference in situation between Lisle and Ryan Johansen — who had a season-long installation with an affiliate and worked in concert with a traditional but very open-minded young hitting coach in Cole Armstrong — and not wonder if the latter proved to be a better route for slowly introducing new concepts. Disparate visits to different affiliates proved to be a harder road in an organization still turning over to data-friendliness, which player development director Chris Getz has been trying to guide in numerous ways, including but not at all limited to the Lisle hire.

 

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49 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I found the quote. The game plan thing specifically mentions the White Sox. Lisle isn't mentioned at all though. And the not listening to analytics people thing says "some teams." Not specifically the White Sox.

image.png

So this is not the same as the quoted above, and this was the rumor before this season. Supposedly it changed and I said it before but a game plan is not advanced analytics and shouldn't be cited as such.

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17 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

 

Yeah, this sounds like it's about messaging. 

While I don't agree that the old guys should be telling the new guys to f off, when presenting new ideas the messaging needs to be understood and easily grasped. 

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So this is not the same as the quoted above, and this was the rumor before this season. Supposedly it changed and I said it before but a game plan is not advanced analytics and shouldn't be cited as such.

Indeed. It's just getting tiring reading these threads full of copious teeth gnashing over nothing but conjecture. I signed up for the Athletic just to see what was actually said because of how obnoxious it's getting lately.

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23 hours ago, DirtySox said:

I also found Fegan's explanation of the Lisle thing in his Q&A, but not sure how much premium content I should be sharing.

This isn’t WSI. just post it. 

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On 9/10/2019 at 5:38 PM, DirtySox said:

 

I don't think much of Getz but it's nice knowing he appears to be all aboard the analytics train.  Analytics are huge these days.  My company has an analytics specialist in each department.  My specific department has an entire DA team.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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8 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I don't think much of Getz but it's nice knowing he appears to be all aboard the analytics train.  Analytics are huge these days.  My company has an analytics specialist in each department.  My specific department has an entire DA team.

Yes, but as I said in the other thread about this... your company and my company are paying a hell of a lot more for analysts and modelers than MLB teams are currently.

I think I'd really enjoy that work, but I wouldnt enjoy it enough to take a 50% paycut. 

Whenever I see an analyst position posted, and look at the pay for baseball, it's honestly laughable.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, but as I said in the other thread about this... your company and my company are paying a hell of a lot more for analysts and modelers than MLB teams are currently.

I think I'd really enjoy that work, but I wouldnt enjoy it enough to take a 50% paycut. 

Whenever I see an analyst position posted, and look at the pay for baseball, it's honestly laughable.

Supply and demand, labour of love, etc. 

It's like any job related to sports (broadcasting would be similar, although the education requirements are lesser), at the very highest levels, where you're differentiating yourself and in the Top 5-10 in the industry, you can make a ton of money.

 

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5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Supply and demand, labour of love, etc. 

It's like any job related to sports (broadcasting would be similar, although the education requirements are lesser), at the very highest levels, where you're differentiating yourself and in the Top 5-10 in the industry, you can make a ton of money.

 

Even the top level analytics people arent making anywhere near top level players make in the finance industry. At that point though youd be making enough to sacrifice the difference if you love baseball. At the entry level and mid-tier level the pay is just significantly lower.

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11 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, but as I said in the other thread about this... your company and my company are paying a hell of a lot more for analysts and modelers than MLB teams are currently.

I think I'd really enjoy that work, but I wouldnt enjoy it enough to take a 50% paycut. 

Whenever I see an analyst position posted, and look at the pay for baseball, it's honestly laughable.

Well plenty of people would and do accept those jobs at pennies on the dollars because of their love of baseball, so not sure what your point is here.

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14 hours ago, ewokpelts said:

This isn’t WSI. just post it. 

No, for the record. Small excerpts can be okay, but paywalls need to be respected.

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