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Badler 2020 J2 Preview

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8 hours ago, bmags said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2020-mlb-international-prospects-preview/

Control+F for white sox: 0 results

Control+F for twins: 1 result

Control+F for tigers: 1 result

So when you state "0 results," it means that this org is not linked to any of the top prospects, and that we should assume that they'll [once again] try to trade away international bonus pool space for players, yes?

 

After all, they're free, since the Reinsdorfs won't have to actually send money to another team, just the ability for another team to spend money on prospects in exchange for the Thyago Vieiras  and the like...

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2 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

So when you state "0 results," it means that this org is not linked to any of the top prospects, and that we should assume that they'll [once again] try to trade away international bonus pool space for players, yes?

 

After all, they're free, since the Reinsdorfs won't have to actually send money to another team, just the ability for another team to spend money on prospects in exchange for the Thyago Vieiras  and the like...

It was one thing to trade the slots when they were in penalty.  To do it now is shameful, ignorant and lazy.  If that is indeed how they proceed, it is a damning evidence to the competence and will to compete for this organization.  

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12 hours ago, bmags said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2020-mlb-international-prospects-preview/

Control+F for white sox: 0 results

Control+F for twins: 1 result

Control+F for tigers: 1 result

 

3 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

So when you state "0 results," it means that this org is not linked to any of the top prospects, and that we should assume that they'll [once again] try to trade away international bonus pool space for players, yes?

 

After all, they're free, since the Reinsdorfs won't have to actually send money to another team, just the ability for another team to spend money on prospects in exchange for the Thyago Vieiras  and the like...

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2020-international-mlb-prospects-preview-more-top-players-to-watch/ 

That original link from Aug 21 has 10 players on it, none of which are linked to the Sox. A new one was released today (the above link), that has 6 different players on it, none of which are linked to the Sox as well. The optimist in me says that not all of the top guys have had their "links" announced yet, so there's still hope for some of next guys that make these articles. The pessimist in me says why the hell aren't the Sox tied to any of these guys, knowing that the team would be out of the penalty (for the 2nd year) and had ample time to prepare for this. 

I'd say it's a bit too early to proclaim that they're for sure going to trade the INTL space away, but as we all know, old habits are hard to break with this team.

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7 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2020-international-mlb-prospects-preview-more-top-players-to-watch/ 

That original link from Aug 21 has 10 players on it, none of which are linked to the Sox. A new one was released today (the above link), that has 6 different players on it, none of which are linked to the Sox as well. The optimist in me says that not all of the top guys have had their "links" announced yet, so there's still hope for some of next guys that make these articles. The pessimist in me says why the hell aren't the Sox tied to any of these guys, knowing that the team would be out of the penalty (for the 2nd year) and had ample time to prepare for this. 

I'd say it's a bit too early to proclaim that they're for sure going to trade the INTL space away, but as we all know, old habits are hard to break with this team.

Here is my fear:

- The reporting of Badler that it has gotten to the point teams are negotiating with 13-14 year olds

- Jerry Reinsdorf, already a skeptic of spending money on “crapshoot” 16 year olds refuses to allow Sox to play that field

- Jerry ties his own organizations hands in international so he can have bigger bargaining power in next CBA to install a draft.

- Meanwhile sox lose out on best pipeline to keep infusing talent while competitive, and lack prospects to trade and hit ceiling of budget too soon.

obviously point two is my theory, but Sox have jumped on opportunities to sign older talent in international while always saying what a crapshoot signing 16 year olds is.

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2 hours ago, bmags said:

Here is my fear:

- The reporting of Badler that it has gotten to the point teams are negotiating with 13-14 year olds

- Jerry Reinsdorf, already a skeptic of spending money on “crapshoot” 16 year olds refuses to allow Sox to play that field

- Jerry ties his own organizations hands in international so he can have bigger bargaining power in next CBA to install a draft.

- Meanwhile sox lose out on best pipeline to keep infusing talent while competitive, and lack prospects to trade and hit ceiling of budget too soon.

obviously point two is my theory, but Sox have jumped on opportunities to sign older talent in international while always saying what a crapshoot signing 16 year olds is.

I don't disagree with anything that you've put out here. I'm just hoping that they take some "risks" with these types of players. I'm just trying to stay semi-optimistic so I don't completely go crazy over their unwillingness to stray from their usual, dumb path. 

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14 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

I don't disagree with anything that you've put out here. I'm just hoping that they take some "risks" with these types of players. I'm just trying to stay semi-optimistic so I don't completely go crazy over their unwillingness to stray from their usual, dumb path. 

And I also would not be upset if they did not have a top 15 guy (there are only 15 !) as long as they had a large quantity and mix of some more expensive ones. I really liked 2016s pre Robert! I think 2015 was great! 2019 cannot happen again.

edit: even though 2015 without tatis did not perform that great, they had a decent sized class with some interesting players that didn't perform. It happens.

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36 minutes ago, bmags said:

And I also would not be upset if they did not have a top 15 guy (there are only 15 !) as long as they had a large quantity and mix of some more expensive ones. I really liked 2016s pre Robert! I think 2015 was great! 2019 cannot happen again.

edit: even though 2015 without tatis did not perform that great, they had a decent sized class with some interesting players that didn't perform. It happens.

100% if they're able to add a few of the backend top 30 guys, I wouldn't be upset with that at all. It just sucks that we've made it halfway through the list and we've got nothing but crickets.

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I'm sure they'll spend on older prospects. Probably some guys from Cuba. This organization is so averse to risk when it comes to 16-year-old signings. The biggest bonus ever is like $1.6 million still I believe. 

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15 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I'm sure they'll spend on older prospects. Probably some guys from Cuba. This organization is so averse to risk when it comes to 16-year-old signings. The biggest bonus ever is like $1.6 million still I believe. 

Micker Adolfo. I think that one has completely scared JR off. He's going to continue to tap the Cuban pipeline. 

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It is so frustrating that the organization continues to scoff at what is probably the best way to add impact talent.  I get that they are young and there is a larger chance the guys don't pan out.  But cmon.  The entire pool is like 5.4 million.  Why would you not invest it as aggressively as possible.  

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24 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

It is so frustrating that the organization continues to scoff at what is probably the best way to add impact talent.  I get that they are young and there is a larger chance the guys don't pan out.  But cmon.  The entire pool is like 5.4 million.  Why would you not invest it as aggressively as possible.  

Especially when a study showed it is quite literally the best investment you can make in player acquisition.

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I wonder how much cash the white sox could get for prospects or current players?  What kind of dollar figure would Robert, Moncado, or Giolito bring back in return?  Might be a nice little bonus before selling the team.

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Fortunately, draft picks can't be traded.  If the Sox ran the draft like they do signing international prospects they would trade their 1st round draft pick for cash and then trade their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks to acquire as many picks in the 10th round as possible.

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On 9/12/2019 at 11:17 PM, Good Guys said:

I wonder how much cash the white sox could get for prospects or current players?  What kind of dollar figure would Robert, Moncado, or Giolito bring back in return?  Might be a nice little bonus before selling the team.

Only Bill Veeck would have done that.

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I don't know if he will be 2020 or if he will be cleared and sign in this current period, but Pedro Manuel Leon has left Cuba. IMO, he was one of the top 2 or 3 best players left. Hopefully we have enough money to make a run at him whichever period he decides to sign in.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, GenericUserName said:

I don't know if he will be 2020 or if he will be cleared and sign in this current period, but Pedro Manuel Leon has left Cuba. IMO, he was one of the top 2 or 3 best players left. Hopefully we have enough money to make a run at him whichever period he decides to sign in.

 

 

 

Good thing they gave away pool money to rid themselves of Nate Jones. One thing JR needs is more dollars.

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Sox will try to sign him but Theo will be a baby and notify the league the Sox cheated 

Edited by fathom

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On 9/10/2019 at 5:11 AM, bmags said:

Here is my fear:

- The reporting of Badler that it has gotten to the point teams are negotiating with 13-14 year olds

- Jerry Reinsdorf, already a skeptic of spending money on “crapshoot” 16 year olds refuses to allow Sox to play that field

- Jerry ties his own organizations hands in international so he can have bigger bargaining power in next CBA to install a draft.

- Meanwhile sox lose out on best pipeline to keep infusing talent while competitive, and lack prospects to trade and hit ceiling of budget too soon.

obviously point two is my theory, but Sox have jumped on opportunities to sign older talent in international while always saying what a crapshoot signing 16 year olds is.

 

On 9/10/2019 at 7:34 AM, Sleepy Harold said:

I don't disagree with anything that you've put out here. I'm just hoping that they take some "risks" with these types of players. I'm just trying to stay semi-optimistic so I don't completely go crazy over their unwillingness to stray from their usual, dumb path. 

 

On 9/10/2019 at 8:25 AM, Sleepy Harold said:

100% if they're able to add a few of the backend top 30 guys, I wouldn't be upset with that at all. It just sucks that we've made it halfway through the list and we've got nothing but crickets.

 

On 9/10/2019 at 9:07 AM, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I'm sure they'll spend on older prospects. Probably some guys from Cuba. This organization is so averse to risk when it comes to 16-year-old signings. The biggest bonus ever is like $1.6 million still I believe. 

 

On 9/10/2019 at 9:52 AM, turnin' two said:

It is so frustrating that the organization continues to scoff at what is probably the best way to add impact talent.  I get that they are young and there is a larger chance the guys don't pan out.  But cmon.  The entire pool is like 5.4 million.  Why would you not invest it as aggressively as possible.  

 

On 9/10/2019 at 10:17 AM, bmags said:

Especially when a study showed it is quite literally the best investment you can make in player acquisition.

I've been harping on these things in PHT and scoffing at the idea of sustained success for all the things I've multi-quoted. The HS and college player draft just does not add enough talent. There is no reason to keep living in the dark ages with this when guys like Acuna, Soto , Tatis, Jr. and others on contending teams provide cheap young talent, Sure the talent might take 5+ years to develop which is even more of a reason to start using those resources the right way now.not just on LatAm talent but Japanese, Korean ,Taiwanese or even European also. It's an international game and it's well past time the Sox took it seriously .

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39 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

 

 

 

 

I've been harping on these things in PHT and scoffing at the idea of sustained success for all the things I've multi-quoted. The HS and college player draft just does not add enough talent. There is no reason to keep living in the dark ages with this when guys like Acuna, Soto , Tatis, Jr. and others on contending teams provide cheap young talent, Sure the talent might take 5+ years to develop which is even more of a reason to start using those resources the right way now.not just on LatAm talent but Japanese, Korean ,Taiwanese or even European also. It's an international game and it's well past time the Sox took it seriously .

Hear, hear...amen to that.

But preaching to the choir or already-converted, unfortunately, the White Sox are likely to either do nothing or the opposite to prove how smart they are.

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5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

 

 

 

 

I've been harping on these things in PHT and scoffing at the idea of sustained success for all the things I've multi-quoted. The HS and college player draft just does not add enough talent. There is no reason to keep living in the dark ages with this when guys like Acuna, Soto , Tatis, Jr. and others on contending teams provide cheap young talent, Sure the talent might take 5+ years to develop which is even more of a reason to start using those resources the right way now.not just on LatAm talent but Japanese, Korean ,Taiwanese or even European also. It's an international game and it's well past time the Sox took it seriously .

Not just that, but think about how many of our own top prospects now were from international and we had to trade significant, cost controlled mlb players to get them . (granted moncada was not cheap intl talent). 

Think about how the twins 104 win core was benefitted from the 2009 intl class. The rays #1 farm benefitted hugely from 2014. And yet the sox have had such small, low key years one after another. When we are competitive in 2023-24 we will solely be relying on drafting.

That said, I do so hope that they still somehow pulled it off and get some decent prospects in Bailey, Rodriguez, Ramos, and Guzman.

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4 hours ago, bmags said:

Not just that, but think about how many of our own top prospects now were from international and we had to trade significant, cost controlled mlb players to get them . (granted moncada was not cheap intl talent). 

Think about how the twins 104 win core was benefitted from the 2009 intl class. The rays #1 farm benefitted hugely from 2014. And yet the sox have had such small, low key years one after another. When we are competitive in 2023-24 we will solely be relying on drafting.

That said, I do so hope that they still somehow pulled it off and get some decent prospects in Bailey, Rodriguez, Ramos, and Guzman.

Part of my harping was always bringing up the Twins. I've tried to do some research on players from the international Free Agency who have made an impact on MLB in the last 10 years or so and It's difficult to find. Yolmer seems to be the only guy in the last 10 years who made it all the way to the majors for the Sox if you don't count Tatis who we all know was traded away.

I did find that the Sox made an offer to Ji-Man Choi in 2017 . They were among 13 clubs who made an offer . And we all probably know same thing with Ohtani but as usual we come up short too may times in any kind of Free Agency.

Bailey does give me some hope. I really hope he can do well.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Part of my harping was always bringing up the Twins. I've tried to do some research on players from the international Free Agency who have made an impact on MLB in the last 10 years or so and It's difficult to find. Yolmer seems to be the only guy in the last 10 years who made it all the way to the majors for the Sox if you don't count Tatis who we all know was traded away.

I did find that the Sox made an offer to Ji-Man Choi in 2017 . They were among 13 clubs who made an offer . And we all probably know same thing with Ohtani but as usual we come up short too may times in any kind of Free Agency.

Bailey does give me some hope. I really hope he can do well.

I was more disappointed with the Yolbert/2019 class than really even Machado, it was a slower burn, but just so ridiculous.

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2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I was more disappointed with the Yolbert/2019 class than really even Machado, it was a slower burn, but just so ridiculous.

Was the slow burn due to just not spending all their money or Yolbert getting too much ? Too old ? They did have at least $1M left over that they traded to TX . Or was it something else ?

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3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Was the slow burn due to just not spending all their money or Yolbert getting too much ? Too old ? They did have at least $1M left over that they traded to TX . Or was it something else ?

Slow burn was hearing the rumors in february when they "shouldn't" have had money left at that point, then seeing we weren't really tied to anyone, and still just hoping that was false, then getting to J2 and only signing a fairly small class with 2.1 going to yolbert, and then finally trading the rest of the space.

Just a series of things confirming that though on its face the new CBA seemed to align international to the way the sox like to operate (fixed costs), in reality they will not be able to compete with other clubs because they don't care enough about it to set up the infrastructure and relationships to compete.

I will say international is very skeezy and should be reformed, so advocating 10 year olds to leave home to hope to sign by 14 with your club is gross but I don't like them restricting themselves.

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