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I don't think we can dump all this in Renteria's lap


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29 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I've always gotten the impression that Renteria is just here for the rebuild. He seems like he's good with kids and the Latino players like him. I've always assumed he'd take a different position in the organization when/if they take off. That's why I've never really understood the angst. 

History has a lot to say about that.  It's one part they don't take very serious.  Did they bother to interview when they asked Ventura to do it?  

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40 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Of course he doesn't have the horses to win, but unless his style changes with better players (Moncada attempting a bunt the other night sort of makes it seems like it wouldn't) what he is showing is he is not the guy you want guiding a stacked roster.

One organization figured that out.

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3 hours ago, NWINFan said:

You don't cite this objective evidence that the Sox will invest in their team. I am hoping they do; they need to. But until they do, I will remain skeptical. But the fact remains that major league franchises can be profitable when losing. 

The objective evidence is the fact we’ve been an average or higher spender for the last couple decades.  Reinsdorf isn’t suddenly going to stop spending at those levels because he made some profit during planned rebuild years 

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5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The objective evidence is the fact we’ve been an average or higher spender for the last couple decades.  Reinsdorf isn’t suddenly going to stop spending at those levels because he made some profit during planned rebuild years 

Reinsdorf has made a lot of mistakes - the strike being front and center. He has certainly wanted to control salary growth, but at no point in Jerry's modern tenure-1995-2012 could you call him "cheap" or a money hoarder. 

Maybe he was cheap when it came to development, prospects and investment in the farm, but he was never cheap when it came to % of revenue spent on payroll. For an EXTENDED period of time (10ish years) he spent the highest % of revenue on payroll in all of baseball. He just didnt invest it all in one player or two.

Jerry has proven time and time again as an owner in Chicago that he will spend money on a team that wins. He has even spent on some losing teams in that time. He's never going to be the Red Sox, Yankees or Dodgers but the White Sox are also never going to earn like those teams. there's been a good percentage of years that he did outspend the Cubs despite not out earning them. I hate on Jerry for a lot - he's too risk averse at the upper echelon of talent when risk has to be taken there - but he's not some greedy shit head spending decades robbing fans of the revenue they generate for the team.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Reinsdorf has made a lot of mistakes - the strike being front and center. He has certainly wanted to control salary growth, but at no point in Jerry's modern tenure-1995-2012 could you call him "cheap" or a money hoarder. 

Maybe he was cheap when it came to development, prospects and investment in the farm, but he was never cheap when it came to % of revenue spent on payroll. For an EXTENDED period of time (10ish years) he spent the highest % of revenue on payroll in all of baseball. He just didnt invest it all in one player or two.

Jerry has proven time and time again as an owner in Chicago that he will spend money on a team that wins. He has even spent on some losing teams in that time. He's never going to be the Red Sox, Yankees or Dodgers but the White Sox are also never going to earn like those teams. there's been a good percentage of years that he did outspend the Cubs despite not out earning them. I hate on Jerry for a lot - he's too risk averse at the upper echelon of talent when risk has to be taken there - but he's not some greedy shit head spending decades robbing fans of the revenue they generate for the team.

I do think Jerry will open up his wallet this off-season and spend money.  But I still am concerned that he has drastically cut payroll on both his professional teams over the last 5 years or so. Hopefully at this point  Jerry is listening to his sports FO people and not his CFO. 

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19 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I do think Jerry will open up his wallet this off-season and spend money.  But I still am concerned that he has drastically cut payroll on both his professional teams over the last 5 years or so. Hopefully at this point  Jerry is listening to his sports FO people and not his CFO. 

Because the teams are awful.

I dont understand what he was supposed to do. Spend on free agents that wouldnt impact the teams end of season outcomes? 

The Bulls just arent the same either - there is a cap and they have offered countless max contracts that got rejected. It's not like the Bulls intentionally play in the kiddie pool - their front office is just incompetent and incapable of getting anything done which falls on Jerry as well.

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If they don’t look at Grandal in favor of Collins, if they don’t look at any starting pitcher who’s going to make in the Danks range or above...there’s not much out there to actually spend on (in terms of real difference makers) once you get past Ozuna and maybe now Castellanos in the outfield.

If the only thing they’re doing differently is adding Tier B/C talent around a much bigger and younger potential core of players, the odds of success are at best so-so.

I guess the proof will be in the pudding when we see how much they’re willing to spend on pitching and on RF/DH.  I still have a feeling the argument will be that NEXT offseason will be the preferred target for spending on yet another pedestrian group.

 

This idea we’re going back to Top 3 (happened once) payrolls is equally ludicrous.

Most fans would be elated with #8-12 payrolls.  The last time they really opened the wallets was after the World Series through 2009 and then the Dunn singular signing going into 2011...and the trio of signings going into 2014.

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1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Reinsdorf has made a lot of mistakes - the strike being front and center. He has certainly wanted to control salary growth, but at no point in Jerry's modern tenure-1995-2012 could you call him "cheap" or a money hoarder. 

Maybe he was cheap when it came to development, prospects and investment in the farm, but he was never cheap when it came to % of revenue spent on payroll. For an EXTENDED period of time (10ish years) he spent the highest % of revenue on payroll in all of baseball. He just didnt invest it all in one player or two.

Jerry has proven time and time again as an owner in Chicago that he will spend money on a team that wins. He has even spent on some losing teams in that time. He's never going to be the Red Sox, Yankees or Dodgers but the White Sox are also never going to earn like those teams. there's been a good percentage of years that he did outspend the Cubs despite not out earning them. I hate on Jerry for a lot - he's too risk averse at the upper echelon of talent when risk has to be taken there - but he's not some greedy shit head spending decades robbing fans of the revenue they generate for the team.

With precedence on his side and as his guide, he can now return to his high spendin’ ways of yesteryear and see to bring in the kind of premium talent from the outside he’s going to need to finish off the job on the rebuild.  

The money will be spent.  The moment of reckoning grows nearer now just on how much money and on whom it is spent.  

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5 hours ago, Flash said:

Would identify and pursue key pieces through trade. Is there a scenario where the Mets would part with Syndergard and Nimmo? What could we reasonably offer? Would a package including Lopez, Colome and Vaughn make sense? I honestly believe, even allowing for an adjustment period for Madrigal and Robert, if we can somehow pull off a big trade for a TOR piece plus sign Grandal, we leapfrog to the top of the division.

That wouldn't make sense for either team as the Mets have one of the best 1B in the league as a rookie and we have a giant need at 1B.  Also Thor only has 2 years left before FA I think. 

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18 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

This is the other "negative" factor about Sox fans not deserting the ship in droves the last two seasons, and actually increasing their numbers (slightly) for 2019.

We heard for years and years how the White Sox fans were not supporting ownership enough to justify their putting Top 8-12 payrolls on the field.

Well, the fans have been ESPECIALLY resilient the last 2-3 seasons and they were rewarded with an 8% season ticket increase (when you factor in the Field of Dreams Game coming off the schedule of 81 home games).

It's not so difficult to imagine them ONLY spending an additional $20-30 million this offseason, because they're incredibly profitable as currently constructed, payroll-wise.

 

The only way we'll know they're actually serious is when they 1) announce an extension with Robert, Moncada or Giolito or 2) sign at least 2 FA's for more than $75 million per year, or Cole/Rendon for $150+ million per year.  (I guess you could lump in adding JD Martinez or Grandal there, whatever the final contract turns out to be.)

 

 

As someone generally recognize as a positive poster...I would join the lynch mob if the $20-30 million mention in your post becomes reality.  

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18 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Because the teams are awful.

I dont understand what he was supposed to do. Spend on free agents that wouldnt impact the teams end of season outcomes? 

The Bulls just arent the same either - there is a cap and they have offered countless max contracts that got rejected. It's not like the Bulls intentionally play in the kiddie pool - their front office is just incompetent and incapable of getting anything done which falls on Jerry as well.

Maybe the red flag is long-term front office personnel in both franchises.  

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On 9/16/2019 at 3:56 PM, BackDoorBreach said:

I can't believe people still think we are going to play at a 90 million dollar payroll.  Aside from the Brychado debacle there is and was no reason to sign any impact free agents the last 3 years.  The team was in a rebuild.

This offseason is the no kidding around time to hit the gas.

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On 9/16/2019 at 2:56 PM, BackDoorBreach said:

I can't believe people still think we are going to play at a 90 million dollar payroll.  Aside from the Brychado debacle there is and was no reason to sign any impact free agents the last 3 years.  The team was in a rebuild.

It looks like you agree that there was reason to sign one of Brychado.  They will both still be younger than any free agent the Sox can sign next offseason.  But the Sox still failed miserably in their efforts on both guys and Hahn ended up signing a bunch of bums, minus McCann.  So what part of last offseason or any prior Hahn offseason instills any faith in you that next offseason will be good?  Has Hahn ever even had a good offseason, free agent-wise?

Edited by Moan4Yoan
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4 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

It looks like you agree that there was reason to sign one of Brychado.  They will both still be younger than any free agent the Sox can sign next offseason.  But the Sox still failed miserably in their efforts on both guys and Hahn ended up signing a bunch of bums, minus McCann.  So what part of last offseason or any prior Hahn offseason instills any faith in you that next offseason will be good?  Has Hahn ever even had a good offseason, free agent-wise?

in the winter of 2014/15 the White Sox were crowned the winners of the winter meetings, but once the dust settled, it ended up being far from a good off-season.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2335445-highlighting-the-best-and-worst-2014-2015-mlb-offseason-makeovers#slide11

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