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vilehoopster

I don't think we can dump all this in Renteria's lap

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I know that I have posted on here that I want to replace Renteria. But I really don't think, especially lately, that he has been given a chance to win. I believe that a lot of his player/ personal moves are being dictated to him by the front office. 

My best examples are pitching Covey and Herrera. This goes beyond this shit roster; I think many of his decision (like starting Covey or putting out Herrera) were forced upon him.  Seriously, who would want to see Covey or Herrera pitch from any dugout which is trying to win? I have to believe there are many inaudible (and a few audible ones) whenever either of those two take the mound. And Renteria's might be silent, but I would bet it's there.

Do you really think he wanted to keep putting Yonder A. out there and batting him at cleanup? I can't believe it. I think Hahn would tell Ricky to bat Yonder and bat him at cleanup to justify the stupid signing. 

Someone posted on the game thread today about Moncada being pissed after today's game. I'm sure that he and a lot of the other players know that these personal decisions are not in the hands of the people in the dug out and that losses like today are being shoved up their asses by the front office. 

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I've always thought that this so called rebuild has not been taken seriously by the Owner and management. This has always rubbed me as if the team wins, fine and if they lose, so what. As long as the owners are making money I don't think they really care if this team starts winning. Still, this has gotten to the point where some changes have to be made. After Saturdays night loss Renteria should be fired ASAP. The White sox lost on a walkoff home run that wasn't a home run. All Renteria had to do was challenge the play and the replay clearly showed it was not a home run. Even the White Sox TV announcers confirmed that before todays game. Renteria should have been fired before todays game.

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6 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I've always thought that this so called rebuild has not been taken seriously by the Owner and management. This has always rubbed me as if the team wins, fine and if they lose, so what. As long as the owners are making money I don't think they really care if this team starts winning. Still, this has gotten to the point where some changes have to be made. After Saturdays night loss Renteria should be fired ASAP. The White sox lost on a walkoff home run that wasn't a home run. All Renteria had to do was challenge the play and the replay clearly showed it was not a home run. Even the White Sox TV announcers confirmed that before todays game. Renteria should have been fired before todays game.

This is what you call part of a losing culture. Why challenge it when you think you are going to lose anyway? Why back up your players against an ump when you think you are going to lose anyway? Yes, changes need to be made. It would do the team good and send a message to the fans. But why do it when you think you are going to lose anyway?

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You're right. Some blame has to fall on Jose Abreu. His abysmal defense sets a bad precedence for the younger players by the so-called "leader". 

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Renteria is a horrible in game manager, from lineup construction to bullpen usage.  He needs replaced 

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32 minutes ago, ron883 said:

You're right. Some blame has to fall on Jose Abreu. His abysmal defense sets a bad precedence for the younger players by the so-called "leader". 

You're not even trying anymore

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I searched for another thread and didn't find it.  Apparently, Renteria didn't understand what the umps were asking re: his challenge of Narvaez's "homer" last night and didn't challenge, a move that cost the Sox the game.  Is he on pain meds?  How stupid.  Also, the 8th today where he let's a spent Hector put 3 guys on and then plays musical relievers for like 45 minutes was unwatchable.

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2 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I've always thought that this so called rebuild has not been taken seriously by the Owner and management. This has always rubbed me as if the team wins, fine and if they lose, so what. As long as the owners are making money I don't think they really care if this team starts winning. Still, this has gotten to the point where some changes have to be made. After Saturdays night loss Renteria should be fired ASAP. The White sox lost on a walkoff home run that wasn't a home run. All Renteria had to do was challenge the play and the replay clearly showed it was not a home run. Even the White Sox TV announcers confirmed that before todays game. Renteria should have been fired before todays game.

This is the other "negative" factor about Sox fans not deserting the ship in droves the last two seasons, and actually increasing their numbers (slightly) for 2019.

We heard for years and years how the White Sox fans were not supporting ownership enough to justify their putting Top 8-12 payrolls on the field.

Well, the fans have been ESPECIALLY resilient the last 2-3 seasons and they were rewarded with an 8% season ticket increase (when you factor in the Field of Dreams Game coming off the schedule of 81 home games).

It's not so difficult to imagine them ONLY spending an additional $20-30 million this offseason, because they're incredibly profitable as currently constructed, payroll-wise.

 

The only way we'll know they're actually serious is when they 1) announce an extension with Robert, Moncada or Giolito or 2) sign at least 2 FA's for more than $75 million per year, or Cole/Rendon for $150+ million per year.  (I guess you could lump in adding JD Martinez or Grandal there, whatever the final contract turns out to be.)

 

 

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2 hours ago, ron883 said:

You're right. Some blame has to fall on Jose Abreu. His abysmal defense sets a bad precedence for the younger players by the so-called "leader". 

:lolhitting

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2 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I've always thought that this so called rebuild has not been taken seriously by the Owner and management. This has always rubbed me as if the team wins, fine and if they lose, so what. As long as the owners are making money I don't think they really care if this team starts winning. Still, this has gotten to the point where some changes have to be made. After Saturdays night loss Renteria should be fired ASAP. The White sox lost on a walkoff home run that wasn't a home run. All Renteria had to do was challenge the play and the replay clearly showed it was not a home run. Even the White Sox TV announcers confirmed that before todays game. Renteria should have been fired before todays game.

This is the other "negative" factor about Sox fans not deserting the ship in droves the last two seasons, and actually increasing their numbers (slightly) for 2019.

We heard for years and years how the White Sox fans were not supporting ownership enough to justify their putting Top 8-12 payrolls on the field.

Well, the fans have been ESPECIALLY resilient the last 2-3 seasons and they were rewarded with an 8% season ticket increase (when you factor in the Field of Dreams Game coming off the schedule of 81 home games).

It's not so difficult to imagine them ONLY spending an additional $20-30 million this offseason, because they're incredibly profitable as currently constructed, payroll-wise.

 

The only way we'll know they're actually serious is when they 1) announce an extension with Robert, Moncada or Giolito or 2) sign at least 2 FA's for more than $75 million per year, or Cole/Rendon for $150+ million per year.  (I guess you could lump in adding JD Martinez or Grandal there, whatever the final contract turns out to be.)

 

 

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2 hours ago, ron883 said:

You're right. Some blame has to fall on Jose Abreu. His abysmal defense sets a bad precedence for the younger players by the so-called "leader". 

OMG. This is quite the stretch. I just wish we'd trade Jose so I wouldn't have to defend him so much. At least there are two other staunch defenders of Jose along with me

Not a bad take by Vile. This is what message boards are for. Throw out a take that's sort of wild but reasonable. Some of us have said for a long time the manager is at a disadvantage on the south side cause of his options. Some nights he has nothing but crap to put on the mound out of the bullpen. Let's face it life is all about making $$$, the most money you can. And with this payroll, the Sox have made soooooo much money during the tank.

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Oh boy, here come the conspiracy theories that the Sox will go cheap for the foreseeable future, despite all objective evidence suggesting otherwise, because these rebuild years have been “profitable”.  Some of you guys are legit nuts.

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The evidence the White Sox can just turn on a dime and suddenly every move they’ll make will be for a “win now” player with at least a three year time horizon (other than Abreu and relievers from the waiver wire) in mind is equally non existent.

How much did Robertson, Cabrera and LaRoche cost...along with Samardzija?

Let’s call it $125 million-ISH.

In 2019 dollars, adjusted for inflation, at least $150 million.

If you want, that includes potential extensions for Abreu, McCann, Robert, Giolito and Moncada (if they decide to pursue the last four.)

UNTIL they ACTUALLY spend at least HALF of the money they were (supposedly) willing to give Machado or Harper in one off season...then they’re not really serious, considering they’re trying to go from a low 70s win team to a 90+ one in one offseason with two divisional contenders both ending up in the low to high 90’s for their win totals this year.

Edited by caulfield12

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31 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The evidence the White Sox can just turn on a dime and suddenly every move they’ll make will be for a “win now” player with at least a three year time horizon (other than Abreu and relievers from the waiver wire) in mind is equally non existent.

How much did Robertson, Cabrera and LaRoche cost...along with Samardzija?

Let’s call it $125 million-ISH.

In 2019 dollars, adjusted for inflation, at least $150 million.

If you want, that includes potential extensions for Abreu, McCann, Robert, Giolito and Moncada (if they decide to pursue the last four.)

UNTIL they ACTUALLY spend at least HALF of the money they were (supposedly) willing to give Machado or Harper in one off season...then they’re not really serious, considering they’re trying to go from a low 70s win team to a 90+ one in one offseason with two divisional contenders both ending up in the low to high 90’s for their win totals this year.

I really can’t follow what you’re arguing here.  The first half of this post just makes no sense and the second half is just stating the obvious.

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2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Oh boy, here come the conspiracy theories that the Sox will go cheap for the foreseeable future, despite all objective evidence suggesting otherwise, because these rebuild years have been “profitable”.  Some of you guys are legit nuts.

You don't cite this objective evidence that the Sox will invest in their team. I am hoping they do; they need to. But until they do, I will remain skeptical. But the fact remains that major league franchises can be profitable when losing. 

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3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The evidence the White Sox can just turn on a dime and suddenly every move they’ll make will be for a “win now” player with at least a three year time horizon (other than Abreu and relievers from the waiver wire) in mind is equally non existent.

How much did Robertson, Cabrera and LaRoche cost...along with Samardzija?

Let’s call it $125 million-ISH.

In 2019 dollars, adjusted for inflation, at least $150 million.

If you want, that includes potential extensions for Abreu, McCann, Robert, Giolito and Moncada (if they decide to pursue the last four.)

UNTIL they ACTUALLY spend at least HALF of the money they were (supposedly) willing to give Machado or Harper in one off season...then they’re not really serious, considering they’re trying to go from a low 70s win team to a 90+ one in one offseason with two divisional contenders both ending up in the low to high 90’s for their win totals this year.

The biggest thing the White Sox have going for them is that RF and DH have been so bad that adding MLB caliber players there gives you about 8 wins alone if you change nothing else. 

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37 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

You don't cite this objective evidence that the Sox will invest in their team. I am hoping they do; they need to. But until they do, I will remain skeptical. But the fact remains that major league franchises can be profitable when losing. 

The evidence is that for a 16 year window the White Sox spent top 3 of revenue on payroll in all of baseball. Even if they dont go that far again, they certainly havent spent decades hoarding revenue.

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Would identify and pursue key pieces through trade. Is there a scenario where the Mets would part with Syndergard and Nimmo? What could we reasonably offer? Would a package including Lopez, Colome and Vaughn make sense? I honestly believe, even allowing for an adjustment period for Madrigal and Robert, if we can somehow pull off a big trade for a TOR piece plus sign Grandal, we leapfrog to the top of the division.

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13 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

I know that I have posted on here that I want to replace Renteria. But I really don't think, especially lately, that he has been given a chance to win. I believe that a lot of his player/ personal moves are being dictated to him by the front office. 

My best examples are pitching Covey and Herrera. This goes beyond this shit roster; I think many of his decision (like starting Covey or putting out Herrera) were forced upon him.  Seriously, who would want to see Covey or Herrera pitch from any dugout which is trying to win? I have to believe there are many inaudible (and a few audible ones) whenever either of those two take the mound. And Renteria's might be silent, but I would bet it's there.

Do you really think he wanted to keep putting Yonder A. out there and batting him at cleanup? I can't believe it. I think Hahn would tell Ricky to bat Yonder and bat him at cleanup to justify the stupid signing. 

Someone posted on the game thread today about Moncada being pissed after today's game. I'm sure that he and a lot of the other players know that these personal decisions are not in the hands of the people in the dug out and that losses like today are being shoved up their asses by the front office. 

Of course he doesn't have the horses to win, but unless his style changes with better players (Moncada attempting a bunt the other night sort of makes it seems like it wouldn't) what he is showing is he is not the guy you want guiding a stacked roster.

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I've always gotten the impression that Renteria is just here for the rebuild. He seems like he's good with kids and the Latino players like him. I've always assumed he'd take a different position in the organization when/if they take off. That's why I've never really understood the angst. 

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26 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I've always gotten the impression that Renteria is just here for the rebuild. He seems like he's good with kids and the Latino players like him. I've always assumed he'd take a different position in the organization when/if they take off. That's why I've never really understood the angst. 

I hope you're right. He's a lousy manager, but he seems like a good guy.

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53 minutes ago, Flash said:

Would identify and pursue key pieces through trade. Is there a scenario where the Mets would part with Syndergard and Nimmo? What could we reasonably offer? Would a package including Lopez, Colome and Vaughn make sense? I honestly believe, even allowing for an adjustment period for Madrigal and Robert, if we can somehow pull off a big trade for a TOR piece plus sign Grandal, we leapfrog to the top of the division.

For those guys you have to be talking about Kopech, Cease, or Jiminez as the first piece, probably with Vaughn or Madrigal as a second piece, and then a couple more bits to fill things out.

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