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bubba phillips

Sox Win and Cubs Eliminated

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23 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'm saying if the Cubs have to resort to a tank/rebuild to finally win one WS, that is sad. All that $$$$$. They should have been able to win some titles along the way doing it the old fashioned way. So Tony I presume you think you know baseball. And I guess tank/rebuild is the only way to do it? Even for the cash rich Cubs? Sad for them. 

1. I don't presume I know baseball. I do. 

2. In your original post, you said "The Cubs rebuild/tank was a failure." Once you made that statement, you were rightly ridiculed because it's an asinine statement that shows you have no understanding of the sport, and live in a fantasy world (which we've accused you of over the last decade, yet you keep going along your merry, troll way.) 

You realize the Cubs are spending $218 million on payroll this year, right? More than the Yankees, more than the Dodgers? The Red Sox are the only ones who outspent the Cubs, and also aren't making the playoffs. Do you just think teams that went through a rebuild never spend money? You do realize there is a strategy behind it, to eventually put a winning product on the field for a sustained amount of time.......LIKE THE CUBS DID.

I'm so sick of you bringing so many threads to a screeching halt because you're uneducated on so many different topics. 

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57 minutes ago, Tony said:

I'm so sick of you bringing so many threads to a screeching halt because you're uneducated on so many different topics. 

First of all my comments don't bring threads to a halt. Prove it. Secondly, you need to talk to more average fans, ones who you would say "don't know baseball." My statement that the Cubs rebuild/tank was a failure is correct if you take into consideration what I'm talking about: the history of Cubs baseball. You won't even try to understand what I'm saying so I'll stop after this. The Cubs ... with all that money through the years could have and should have won numerous NL pennants and a handful of WS titles the last six decades or so. With all that money they could have won a batch of titles in the early years of free agency -- definitely in the 60s, 70s and 80s they could have won titles the old fashioned way.

I'm saying the tank is a failure because it provided one title. This year and last were disgraceful conclusion to their rebuild attempt. You won't try to understand what I'm saying about the old, traditional way of winning pennants (spending money; getting the best players and managers) so I'll stop. If you attempted to converse about this I'd take part. No more posts from me on this topic.

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6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

First of all my comments don't bring threads to a halt. Prove it. Secondly, you need to talk to more average fans, ones who you would say "don't know baseball." My statement that the Cubs rebuild/tank was a failure is correct if you take into consideration what I'm talking about: the history of Cubs baseball. You won't even try to understand what I'm saying so I'll stop after this. The Cubs ... with all that money through the years could have and should have won numerous NL pennants and a handful of WS titles the last six decades or so. With all that money they could have won a batch of titles in the early years of free agency -- definitely in the 60s, 70s and 80s they could have won titles the old fashioned way.

I'm saying the tank is a failure because it provided one title. This year and last were disgraceful conclusion to their rebuild attempt. You won't try to understand what I'm saying about the old, traditional way of winning pennants (spending money; getting the best players and managers) so I'll stop. If you attempted to converse about this I'd take part. No more posts from me on this topic.

THEY HAVE THE 2ND HIGHEST PAYROLL IN BASEBALL, AND JOE MADDON MAKES MORE THAN ANY OTHER MANAGER IN BASEBALL. 

 

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17 hours ago, greg775 said:

I still say the Cubs rebuild/tank was a failure. I mean with all the money they have to work with, a good GM could win simply by buying free agents and going with the guys in their minor league system when they are MLB ready. Cubs are really in trouble. No playoffs this season is unacceptable. Who would have thought Milwaukee would get this good?

This is why I said shooting to be like the Cubs is not the goal.  We want to model the Astros.

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2 hours ago, Tony said:

THEY HAVE THE 2ND HIGHEST PAYROLL IN BASEBALL, AND JOE MADDON MAKES MORE THAN ANY OTHER MANAGER IN BASEBALL. 

 

You don't get my point. They ALSO had the funds to have the second highest payroll in baseball immediately after Curt Flood won his case. It's inexcusable they couldn't win the normal way. Tank/rebuild is a relatively new phenomenon you realize?

The Sox have a lot of reasons for not winning before. Comiskey was cheap. Veeck had no money at all. John Allyn didn't spend $$. Jerry has always been cheap no matter what some folks say. Yes a few years we had a very good payroll.

Edited by greg775

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Just now, greg775 said:

You don't get my point. They ALSO had the funds to have the second highest payroll in baseball immediately after Curt Flood won his case. It's inexcusable they couldn't win the normal way. Tank/rebuild is a relatively new phenomenon you realize?

Except that wasn’t your point at all, you incredible dolt. 
 

This conversation started by you calling the Cubs rebuild a failure, because they just won one World Series, and they didn’t do things the “traditional” way, whatever the hell that means. Once multiple people called you out, then you started changing your tune. 
 

The Cubs “rebuild” allowed them to obtain Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo, Kyle Schwarber, Jake Arrietta and Addison Russell, not to mention already having Javy Baez and Willson Contreras already in the minors. They set their foundation while taking lumps at the ML level, and eventually won the World Series, and sustained a very impressive run from 2015-2019.

It became derailed when gobbs and gobbs of money was spent on bad free agent acquisitions, and poor drafting. 

Per usual, you’ve given your “take” on something when you working with about 7% of the available information on the subject, and are shocked when people say you’re wrong. 

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2 hours ago, GradMc said:

This is why I said shooting to be like the Cubs is not the goal.  We want to model the Astros.

That would mean replacing people and too bad there is a loyalty system.

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20 hours ago, greg775 said:

I still say the Cubs rebuild/tank was a failure. I mean with all the money they have to work with, a good GM could win simply by buying free agents and going with the guys in their minor league system when they are MLB ready. Cubs are really in trouble. No playoffs this season is unacceptable. Who would have thought Milwaukee would get this good?

How many have the Yankees won since the turn of the century?

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4 hours ago, greg775 said:

First of all my comments don't bring threads to a halt. Prove it. Secondly, you need to talk to more average fans, ones who you would say "don't know baseball." My statement that the Cubs rebuild/tank was a failure is correct if you take into consideration what I'm talking about: the history of Cubs baseball. You won't even try to understand what I'm saying so I'll stop after this. The Cubs ... with all that money through the years could have and should have won numerous NL pennants and a handful of WS titles the last six decades or so. With all that money they could have won a batch of titles in the early years of free agency -- definitely in the 60s, 70s and 80s they could have won titles the old fashioned way.

I'm saying the tank is a failure because it provided one title. This year and last were disgraceful conclusion to their rebuild attempt. You won't try to understand what I'm saying about the old, traditional way of winning pennants (spending money; getting the best players and managers) so I'll stop. If you attempted to converse about this I'd take part. No more posts from me on this topic.

I mean, this is wrong on so many levels BECAUSE of the Cubs history.  Think about this Greg, they hadn't won a World Series in over 100 years, they tanked and then they won.....proving that it worked.  They also went to the playoffs for 5 straight years.   That is a huge success despite what happened this year, but as tony already said the bad money spent on the team after the rebuild is what hurt them.  
 

seriously one of your worst takes on soxtalk, I have to reiterate.  

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3 hours ago, Tony said:

Except that wasn’t your point at all, you incredible dolt. 

I thought namecalling was frowned upon. Say what you want about me. I've never disrespected you or anyone on the board suggesting stupidity, etc.

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3 hours ago, Tony said:

Except that wasn’t your point at all, you incredible dolt. 
 

This conversation started by you calling the Cubs rebuild a failure, because they just won one World Series, and they didn’t do things the “traditional” way, whatever the hell that means. Once multiple people called you out, then you started changing your tune. 
 

The Cubs “rebuild” allowed them to obtain Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo, Kyle Schwarber, Jake Arrietta and Addison Russell, not to mention already having Javy Baez and Willson Contreras already in the minors. They set their foundation while taking lumps at the ML level, and eventually won the World Series, and sustained a very impressive run from 2015-2019.

It became derailed when gobbs and gobbs of money was spent on bad free agent acquisitions, and poor drafting. 

Per usual, you’ve given your “take” on something when you working with about 7% of the available information on the subject, and are shocked when people say you’re wrong. 

As usual, you and others don't understand my point, so I pass.

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2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

I mean, this is wrong on so many levels BECAUSE of the Cubs history.  Think about this Greg, they hadn't won a World Series in over 100 years, they tanked and then they won.....proving that it worked.  They also went to the playoffs for 5 straight years.   That is a huge success despite what happened this year, but as tony already said the bad money spent on the team after the rebuild is what hurt them.  
 

seriously one of your worst takes on soxtalk, I have to reiterate.  

Why didn't a team with the Cub$' re$sources win pennants in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s? Bad people in charge and not spending enough money on good players. Do you dispute this? They finally won a WS via the tank/rebuild. Why couldn't they win in the decades before tanking was allowed by fanbases, owners, and commissioners? That was my point. Any competent team with those resources should have won many WS titles in the pre tank eras.

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33 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Why didn't a team with the Cub$' re$sources win pennants in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s? Bad people in charge and not spending enough money on good players. Do you dispute this? They finally won a WS via the tank/rebuild. Why couldn't they win in the decades before tanking was allowed by fanbases, owners, and commissioners? That was my point. Any competent team with those resources should have won many WS titles in the pre tank eras.

Yet you still haven’t addressed your original statement that THIS Cubs rebuild was a failure, because you’re talking out of your ass, per usual. 

”Me and others” not understanding your point is because it doesn’t make any goddamn sense. 

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

Yet you still haven’t addressed your original statement that THIS Cubs rebuild was a failure, because you’re talking out of your ass, per usual. 

”Me and others” not understanding your point is because it doesn’t make any goddamn sense. 

I tried. I failed. Not worth fighting this battle any more.

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11 hours ago, greg775 said:

Why didn't a team with the Cub$' re$sources win pennants in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s? Bad people in charge and not spending enough money on good players. Do you dispute this? They finally won a WS via the tank/rebuild. Why couldn't they win in the decades before tanking was allowed by fanbases, owners, and commissioners? That was my point. Any competent team with those resources should have won many WS titles in the pre tank eras.

The cubs weren't a money making machine in the 60s 70s 80s 90s like you think they were.   The teams weren't revenue sharing like they do now, it wasn't a blank check just for having a franchise.

i know you are done arguing this but goddamn, saying a team that won a World Series and five straight playoff appearances was a failure is just wrong

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Saying it was a failure is incorrect, but I think saying that it was completely unimpressive and cheap is arguable.  

A team with top 3 resources loses on purpose for years, kris Bryant falls into their lap, then they outlay almost half a billion dollars in one year to buy a World Series in a down year competitively in baseball, everyone on the pitching staff has a career year, the Indians are missing their best players, and they barely squeak one out with prospects.  Then they spend another half billion to sustain playoff appearances, dwarfing all other teams in spending, draft like complete crap outside of Bryant, and now find themselves in a mess.  

Yawn.  If your strategy is simply to outspend everybody else, it’s not that cool. 

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11 hours ago, greg775 said:

I tried. I failed. Not worth fighting this battle any more.

You didn't fail at all greg. You were quite successful here.

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3 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Saying it was a failure is incorrect, but I think saying that it was completely unimpressive and cheap is arguable.  

A team with top 3 resources loses on purpose for years, kris Bryant falls into their lap, then they outlay almost half a billion dollars in one year to buy a World Series in a down year competitively in baseball, everyone on the pitching staff has a career year, the Indians are missing their best players, and they barely squeak one out with prospects.  Then they spend another half billion to sustain playoff appearances, dwarfing all other teams in spending, draft like complete crap outside of Bryant, and now find themselves in a mess.  

Yawn.  If your strategy is simply to outspend everybody else, it’s not that cool. 

Certainly worded better than my posts on the issue. Jerk is the man IMO.

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On 9/28/2019 at 10:38 AM, Jerksticks said:

Saying it was a failure is incorrect, but I think saying that it was completely unimpressive and cheap is arguable.  

A team with top 3 resources loses on purpose for years, kris Bryant falls into their lap, then they outlay almost half a billion dollars in one year to buy a World Series in a down year competitively in baseball, everyone on the pitching staff has a career year, the Indians are missing their best players, and they barely squeak one out with prospects.  Then they spend another half billion to sustain playoff appearances, dwarfing all other teams in spending, draft like complete crap outside of Bryant, and now find themselves in a mess.  

Yawn.  If your strategy is simply to outspend everybody else, it’s not that cool. 

Theo took over in 2011. It's arguable their rebuild started before that but under him it really only lasted 3 years. In 2015 they won 97 games, yet still finished 3rd in their division. That would've been good enough for a division title in any other division that year. Their payroll that year was 13th overall.

The next year, when they won the WS, their payroll was 14th overall. Its gone up every year since then and as mentioned previously, resulted in 4 straight playoff appearances, which is typically the goal of most teams. Once you in, it takes a little bit of luck to win it all.

Greg has moved the goalposts about 4 times now trying to justify whatever point he was making but I think one thing to remember is that high payrolll =/= success. It's certainly possible but not the only way.

The Astros and even his beloved Royals should be proof that rebuilds can and do work.

 

Edited by Iwritecode

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