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BamaDoc

Zack Collins

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A few of us in the minors threads noticed Collins was not batting against lefties so not surprising when I checked he is at .095 with 2 walks and 11ks in 23PA.  Obviously small sample size.  But even counting his terrible stretch when first brought up he is now OPSing above .800 over righties in again a small small sample size.  Two points, why aren't our legitimate prospects learning/given the chance to bat in unfavorable situations in the minors?  He may at worst be a decent platoon bat which in my previous posts I discussed our league worst DH WAR.  Wouldn't give him a thing but I would put him in the mix.

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Collins may end up being a platoon DH, but with his power & eye he could still be plenty valuable.  

My plan this offseason would be to sign Grandal to serve as the primary catcher and to DH on off-days.  Theoretically, Grandal would catch ~100 games and DH ~50 games.  McCann would catch the other ~60 games, primarily against lefties and/or when Giolito is on the mound.  That would leave ~110 games at DH for Zack, mostly against RHP.  If he struggles, then either McCann picks up some additional playing time or you hope that Sheets quickly proves himself in AAA.  Regardless, I think he’s shown enough to be in the DH mix next year.

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Collins has improved both offensively and defensively before our eyes.  Hanging around McCann has/will help him develop as would some hang time with Grandal.  

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Ya I want to see things through with Collins. LH, Good pop, great on base skills...checks a lot of boxes of what we need in our lineup. I’d like to see him get 400-450 AB’s next year...I could see him hitting something like .240/.350/.450

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Regardless, I hope McCann is brought back on a 2 year deal...McCann/Collins and /or a FA is a quality depth at C, Zavala too

So anxious for the offseason, really hope they make smart moves (If only they'd move on from Ricky)

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9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Collins may end up being a platoon DH, but with his power & eye he could still be plenty valuable.  

My plan this offseason would be to sign Grandal to serve as the primary catcher and to DH on off-days.  Theoretically, Grandal would catch ~100 games and DH ~50 games.  McCann would catch the other ~60 games, primarily against lefties and/or when Giolito is on the mound.  That would leave ~110 games at DH for Zack, mostly against RHP.  If he struggles, then either McCann picks up some additional playing time or you hope that Sheets quickly proves himself in AAA.  Regardless, I think he’s shown enough to be in the DH mix next year.

How many games at DH for Jose in this scenario?  Seems like we'd be running him out to first base 150+ times.

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I love what I have seen from Collins of late. I would like to see 500AB's for him next year as a back up catcher. 1st base, and DH

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14 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

How many games at DH for Jose in this scenario?  Seems like we'd be running him out to first base 150+ times.

Just switch Collins and Jose in that scenario. I haven’t see much of Collins at 1st, but I can’t imagine he’d be worse than Jose. Especially if given time to work on it in the off-season. 

 

Which to me definitely needs to just happen. If Collins’ ability to catch is still very much in question at this point then just scrap it and let the kid hit. Too many  things to think about is 1 of the worst things for a young player in my opinion.

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11 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

A few of us in the minors threads noticed Collins was not batting against lefties so not surprising when I checked he is at .095 with 2 walks and 11ks in 23PA.  Obviously small sample size.  But even counting his terrible stretch when first brought up he is now OPSing above .800 over righties in again a small small sample size.  Two points, why aren't our legitimate prospects learning/given the chance to bat in unfavorable situations in the minors?  He may at worst be a decent platoon bat which in my previous posts I discussed our league worst DH WAR.  Wouldn't give him a thing but I would put him in the mix.

Your actual question here is good. It is very frustrating, they appeared to have "handled" multiple overlapping prospects by platooning them.

Moncada should have taught us the value of reps for players batting opposite strengths (yeah, I know switch hitting is different, but still). It's important for them to be tolerable against their weak side, they lose so much value when they aren't.

 

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38 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

How many games at DH for Jose in this scenario?  Seems like we'd be running him out to first base 150+ times.

I haven’t seen much of Collins at 1B, but if he’s an upgrade I’m ok with him getting a lot of his playing time over there.

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46 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I haven’t seen much of Collins at 1B, but if he’s an upgrade I’m ok with him getting a lot of his playing time over there.

Not to mention, but you build future trade value with Zach if he becomes passable at first base.  

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2 hours ago, ChiSoxJon said:

Regardless, I hope McCann is brought back on a 2 year deal...McCann/Collins and /or a FA is a quality depth at C, Zavala too

So anxious for the offseason, really hope they make smart moves (If only they'd move on from Ricky)

McCann is controlled through 2020 as is.  

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2 hours ago, 2Deep said:

I love what I have seen from Collins of late. I would like to see 500AB's for him next year as a back up catcher. 1st base, and DH

This all sounds great and dandy.  But it is really only a realistic scenario if Grandal is brought on board. 

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14 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

This all sounds great and dandy.  But it is really only a realistic scenario if Grandal is brought on board. 

How is getting 500 AB’s (or at least close) for your recent 1st round pick that has proved himself in the minors dependent on signing a free agent? It either has to happen or Collins has to be traded. Anything in between is pointless imo.

Edited by TheFutureIsNear

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I don’t see what the problem is.  People are assuming McCann will be the same guy next year.  I’m not putting any money on that.  Either way, this works...

Catchers:  Grandal / McCann

1B:  Abreu

DH:  Collins

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16 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

How is getting 500 AB’s (or at least close) for your recent 1st round pick that has proved himself in the minors dependent on signing a free agent? It either has to happen or Collins has to be traded. Anything in between is pointless imo.

Because Collins isn't get 500 at bats if he is the backup catcher.  

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4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because Collins isn't get 500 at bats if he is the backup catcher.  

Why wouldn’t he be able to get another 200-250 AB’s between 1B/DH?

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6 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Why wouldn’t he be able to get another 200-250 AB’s between 1B/DH?

Because Ricky, and most other managers, aren't going to risk losing their DH on more than an occasional basis.  Collins getting near everyday reps requires there to be 3 catchers on the roster.  Its a little easier to navigate when he plays 1B, but we all know Abreu will be at 1B most of the time.  

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I can't decide if a .671 OPS despite hitting <.200 is mildly encouraging or not. 

Edited by mqr
  • Haha 1

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7 minutes ago, mqr said:

I can't decide if a .671 OPS despite hitting <.200 is mildly encouraging or not. 

Yea I'm not really seeing a need to "clear the deck" for 500 Collins ABs next year.  In fact he might be more useful as trade bait.  There's some talent there and he could be a useful player but the Sox might not be the right situation when they seem tied to Jose at 1B next year.

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50 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because Ricky, and most other managers, aren't going to risk losing their DH on more than an occasional basis.  Collins getting near everyday reps requires there to be 3 catchers on the roster.  Its a little easier to navigate when he plays 1B, but we all know Abreu will be at 1B most of the time.  

I wish we would have lost our DH on multiple occasions this year. We'd probably have a better output from that spot in the lineup.

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1 hour ago, mqr said:

I can't decide if a .671 OPS despite hitting <.200 is mildly encouraging or not. 

In Sept he is at .241 avg and ops of .794.   Including his terrible summer, his OPS vs RHP now .810

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because Ricky, and most other managers, aren't going to risk losing their DH on more than an occasional basis.  Collins getting near everyday reps requires there to be 3 catchers on the roster.  Its a little easier to navigate when he plays 1B, but we all know Abreu will be at 1B most of the time.  

I guess I just wasn’t factoring Collins as the only backup C all season regardless. Just my opinion of course, but if there’s still questions about his catching ability at this point then he’s probably never going to figure it out as a full time C. Move him to 1B/DH and let the kid concentrate on hitting. That’s where he’s going to prove his value. The lineup could desperately use a guy with Collins’ OBP skills 

Obviously Grandal would be great, but there are other options as backup catcher. Especially with the extra 26 man on the roster next year.

 

I just don’t want to see another high draft pick flushed down the drain by the Sox...especially without ever seeing him get his shot. Unless he can be packaged for a controlled top 3 starter or quality starting RF. 

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20 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I guess I just wasn’t factoring Collins as the only backup C all season regardless. Just my opinion of course, but if there’s still questions about his catching ability at this point then he’s probably never going to figure it out as a full time C. Move him to 1B/DH and let the kid concentrate on hitting. That’s where he’s going to prove his value. The lineup could desperately use a guy with Collins’ OBP skills 

Obviously Grandal would be great, but there are other options as backup catcher. Especially with the extra 26 man on the roster next year.

 

I just don’t want to see another high draft pick flushed down the drain by the Sox...especially without ever seeing him get his shot. Unless he can be packaged for a controlled top 3 starter or quality starting RF. 

I hear ya....Collins does provide alot of things this team lacks.  I think he'll get his shot, but taking away his catchers glove already isn't really the best idea.  Collins provides exponentially more value if he can catch, both to the Sox, and as a trade asset.  He doesn't need to be, nor will be ever be a full time catcher.  And that is fine.  But removing any chance he has of even being an occasional catcher already doesn't seem like the wisest of moves.  

Edited by ChiSox59

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Next year is still a bit of a developmental year. I'd try to get Collins as many AB's as possible. I believe he's always started slow on every level, then rebounded. 

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