Chris Sale

[scs787]

Apparently the Red Sox are looking to cut payroll, and an article on CBS sport(Linked at the bottom) suggests that "it'll be impossible to move David Price's and Chris Sale's contracts without attaching prospects to them, and the Sox right now don't have many frontline prospects."

 

My question to you guys would be, what would a deal for Sale, with or without the BoSox attaching prospects look like? Would you do something like Lopez, Vaughn, Stiever, and an OF prospect of their choice not named Robert? Would the BoSox? I'd love to have Sale back to go with Giolito, Kopech, and Cease. 

 

What about Price with a prospect? 

 

article also suggests that JDM will pick up his option.

 

I won't touch on the Betts part as I'm sure the Sox don't have the bullets.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/red-sox-ownership-announces-plan-to-cut-payroll-heading-into-2020/

[Jerksticks]

Mercy

[skooch]

He's also damaged goods right now. He got platelet injections for his left elbow but will be re-revaluated and may yet require TJS.

[Bob Sacamano]

I definitely wouldn't touch that contact. 

[Timmy U]

Just now, scs787 said:

Apparently the Red Sox are looking to cut payroll, and an article on CBS sport(Linked at the bottom) suggests that "it'll be impossible to move David Price's and Chris Sale's contracts without attaching prospects to them, and the Sox right now don't have many frontline prospects."

 

My question to you guys would be, what would a deal for Sale, with or without the BoSox attaching prospects look like? Would you do something like Lopez, Vaughn, Stiever, and an OF prospect of their choice not named Robert? Would the BoSox? I'd love to have Sale back to go with Giolito, Kopech, and Cease. 

 

What about Price with a prospect? 

 

article also suggests that JDM will pick up his option.

 

I won't touch on the Betts part as I'm sure the Sox don't have the bullets.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/red-sox-ownership-announces-plan-to-cut-payroll-heading-into-2020/

Okay, we’re not trading Vaughn and Steiver for Chris Sale.  Point of the article is that Price and Sale’s contracts are soooo bad that the RED SOX would have to include a prospect to get it done.

 

the question for the F.O. Is how much of that contract would you be willing to take on.  I mean, I love Sale, but there’s a non-zero chance he is headed to TJS and he has had shoulder problems.

[skooch]

He certainly fits the bill for what this team needs, a TOR LHP. But, I agree … I wouldn't touch him/his contract right now. There are lots of red flags with him these days.

[thxfrthmmrs]

33 minutes ago, scs787 said:

Apparently the Red Sox are looking to cut payroll, and an article on CBS sport(Linked at the bottom) suggests that "it'll be impossible to move David Price's and Chris Sale's contracts without attaching prospects to them, and the Sox right now don't have many frontline prospects."

 

My question to you guys would be, what would a deal for Sale, with or without the BoSox attaching prospects look like? Would you do something like Lopez, Vaughn, Stiever, and an OF prospect of their choice not named Robert? Would the BoSox? I'd love to have Sale back to go with Giolito, Kopech, and Cease. 

 

What about Price with a prospect? 

 

article also suggests that JDM will pick up his option.

 

I won't touch on the Betts part as I'm sure the Sox don't have the bullets.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/red-sox-ownership-announces-plan-to-cut-payroll-heading-into-2020/

So your takeaway from this article is rather than BoSox sending prospects you’d send two young pitchers plus a Top 20 prospect for Sale, while the article suggests otherwise.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

It’s almost as if Chris Sale never pitched here, and he doesn’t have a history with the Chicago White Sox.

He will never come back here. 

^^^^^

Sale is gone and is never coming back. Get over it people. I'm more than happy with Moncada. Anything that Kopech and Basabe give is just a bonus. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Sarava]

I don't think Chris Sale wouldn't come here. But why would we want that contract? I mean, who is going to be surprised if early next year it's announced that he needs tJ surgery? You can almost smell it coming. I love Chris Sale and all he did for us, but that's a hard pass on trading for him.

[TaylorStSox]

Boston would have to send him here, pay half his contract and also send us extra jerseys. Sale is toast. 

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I don't think Chris Sale wouldn't come here. But why would we want that contract? I mean, who is going to be surprised if early next year it's announced that he needs tJ surgery? You can almost smell it coming. I love Chris Sale and all he did for us, but that's a hard pass on trading for him.

If so, if Boston paid $30M and Betts for you to take it, you wouldn't? The 30M would presumably cover next year's TJS. 

Not that I think he'd come back anyway, but still. If he has TJS and is close to the same guy you take it and run. 

[kitekrazy]

 It makes no sense to give anything up for one who can't stay healthy. 

[Sarava]

35 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If so, if Boston paid $30M and Betts for you to take it, you wouldn't? The 30M would presumably cover next year's TJS. 

Not that I think he'd come back anyway, but still. If he has TJS and is close to the same guy you take it and run. 

No I wouldn't do that. Chris Sale is on the wrong side of 30 and has a ton of miles on his arm. I wouldn't feel confident that the old Chris Sale would ever return.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Sarava said:

No I wouldn't do that. Chris Sale is on the wrong side of 30 and has a ton of miles on his arm. I wouldn't feel confident that the old Chris Sale would ever return.

Then why would you feel confident signing Cole, Strasburg, Bumgarner or anyone else on the free agent market?  You can make that argument about any pitcher who reaches FA.

I'd actually feel safer with Sale than anyone else because they knew how to keep him healthy during his previous stint, regardless of any current elbow damage. As long as his shoulder is ok, I'm fine re-aquiring Sale, should he wish to return. 

They'd have to pay for the first year of the contract as an insurance policy, but I'd take the 4/120 after that and be pretty confident they could get 170+innings from him each subsequent season. 

He's not coming back, so this is all just mental masturbation anyway. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[ChiSoxJon]

Best days are behind him

Grab me a Cole/Strasburg or a Wheeler with a Hamels/Miley

[poppysox]

19 minutes ago, ChiSoxJon said:

Best days are behind him

Grab me a Cole/Strasburg or a Wheeler with a Hamels/Miley

This is the way to go.  Nostalgia doesn't win pennants.

 

[pcq]

Bad signing by Dombrowski and it cost him. Wonder if Theo will end up the same way.

[BamaDoc]

Mentioned it in my offseason thread but with starters doing less and less, maybe the cost effective way is to do some team friendly extensions like we did with Sale and Q and if not almost never give the big dollar long year contracts.  Most haven't worked for the teams.  Maybe starting pitchers get valued like running back in NFL.  No long term high dollar deals for post thirty year olds or after so many innings.  I am sure you can crunch the numbers to tell you were the risk reward break point occurs.

[oldsox]

6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

^^^^^

Sale is gone and is never coming back. Get over it people. I'm more than happy with Moncada. Anything that Kopech and Basabe give is just a bonus. 

Yep. Turned out that way, didn't it.  We don't know how good our guy will be.

[Sarava]

6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Then why would you feel confident signing Cole, Strasburg, Bumgarner or anyone else on the free agent market?  You can make that argument about any pitcher who reaches FA.

I'd actually feel safer with Sale than anyone else because they knew how to keep him healthy during his previous stint, regardless of any current elbow damage. As long as his shoulder is ok, I'm fine re-aquiring Sale, should he wish to return. 

They'd have to pay for the first year of the contract as an insurance policy, but I'd take the 4/120 after that and be pretty confident they could get 170+innings from him each subsequent season. 

 He's not coming back, so this is all just mental masturbation anyway. 

Sorry, but your post doesn't make sense. All free agents are risks...that's part of playing that game.  But the other guys aren't in the process of breaking down right now as Chris Sale is. It's not even close to the same. Not all guys come back 100% from injuries. Many don't.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Sorry, but your post doesn't make sense. All free agents are risks...that's part of playing that game.  But the other guys aren't in the process of breaking down right now as Chris Sale is. It's not even close to the same. Not all guys come back 100% from injuries. Many don't.

But they're also pitchers. You could end up signing Cole and he never pitches an inning in 2020. He comes to ST and gets hurt. Masahiro Tanaka has been pitching 3 seasons on a partially torn UCL and still hasn't gone under the knife. 

Sale didn't have anywhere close to as many arm issues with the Sox that he did with Boston. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Sarava]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

But they're also pitchers. You could end up signing Cole and he never pitches an inning in 2020. He comes to ST and gets hurt. Masahiro Tanaka has been pitching 3 seasons on a partially torn UCL and still hasn't gone under the knife. 

Well yeah...I don't get your point? Because any pitcher can get injured, you therefore want to bring in the one already breaking down?

[Jack Parkman]

12 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Well yeah...I don't get your point? Because any pitcher can get injured, you therefore want to bring in the one already breaking down?

My point is that he's been here, the Sox have done a good job keeping him healthy, and any pitcher can get injured at any time. Also, the years are known and you might get some minor eating of money. I'd take that risk on a pure salary dump because it's only a 5 year deal. Examine his shoulder closely before agreeing to anything though. They know him better than anyone other than Boston. If the only thing it costs is money, why not? It's better than doing nothing. There is no guarantee any of the other top pitchers will sign here. I'd only do it if Boston pays 1 year of his deal, so it would potentially be either a 5/120 or 4/120 deal for the Sox. We all know what Chris Sale is when he's healthy. There's nothing the Sox need more than a TOR LHP. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Sarava]

10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

My point is that he's been here, the Sox have done a good job keeping him healthy, and any pitcher can get injured at any time. Also, the years are known and you might get some minor eating of money. I'd take that risk on a pure salary dump because it's only a 5 year deal. Examine his shoulder closely before agreeing to anything though. They know him better than anyone other than Boston. If the only thing it costs is money, why not? It's better than doing nothing. There is no guarantee any of the other top pitchers will sign here. I'd only do it if Boston pays 1 year of his deal, so it would potentially be either a 5/120 or 4/120 deal for the Sox. We all know what Chris Sale is when he's healthy. There's nothing the Sox need more than a TOR LHP. 

I'm sorry, but no to bringing in damaged goods. Too risky.

The reality is, the top free agent starting pitchers probably won't sign here this winter. And I don't think it's that the Sox aren't an attractive destination. Chicago is a great city and the Sox are one of the brightest young teams in baseball. I just think our owner is a cheapskate.

I'm sensing that Rick Hahn  is throwing out little hints already to cover for the coming cheapness this winter. He keeps slipping in comments that rebuilds are longer than 3 years and more growing pains are ahead of us. AKA, the Sox might be 'on the cheap' once again this winter.

And really, the rebuild should be over after tomorrow. Rich Hahn should hold a press conference tomorrow after the game and declare the rebuild is over and the White Sox want to win the World Series next year. They should plug the oh so obvious holes and try to win 90-100 games next year. But that would require them acting like a big market team, and they seem to prefer pretending they are the Tamp Bay Rays, Pittsburgh Pirates or San Diego Padres. Oh wait...

So that all said, and I apologize for the long winded post - I really think there's a high chance the Sox dangle Andrew Vaughn this winter for a top young arm. That might the only path towards qcquiring a good SP that Jerry's bank account will agree with.

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I'm sorry, but no to bringing in damaged goods. Too risky.

The reality is, the top free agent starting pitchers probably won't sign here this winter. And I don't think it's that the Sox aren't an attractive destination. Chicago is a great city and the Sox are one of the brightest young teams in baseball. I just think our owner is a cheapskate.

I'm sensing that Rick Hahn  is throwing out little hints already to cover for the coming cheapness this winter. He keeps slipping in comments that rebuilds are longer than 3 years and more growing pains are ahead of us. AKA, the Sox might be 'on the cheap' once again this winter.

And really, the rebuild should be over after tomorrow. Rich Hahn should hold a press conference tomorrow after the game and declare the rebuild is over and the White Sox want to win the World Series next year. They should plug the oh so obvious holes and try to win 90-100 games next year. But that would require them acting like a big market team, and they seem to prefer pretending they are the Tamp Bay Rays, Pittsburgh Pirates or San Diego Padres. Oh wait...

So that all said, and I apologize for the long winded post - I really think there's a high chance the Sox dangle Andrew Vaughn this winter for a top young arm. That might the only path towards acquiring a good SP that Jerry's bank account will agree with.

I get your apprehension. I really do. I also have a damn signature that agrees with you about Reinsdorf. It's only plausible if Boston eats money and he passes a rigorous physical on his left arm. However, something like this might be the best way to get a TOR arm. It's not an insane idea, but it's extremely unlikely. 

Regardless, I don't think either the Sox or Sale are interested in a reunion tour. 

Andrew Vaughn for AJ Puk. Who says no? 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Jack Parkman