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scs787

Chris Sale

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6 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I'm sorry, but no to bringing in damaged goods. Too risky.

The reality is, the top free agent starting pitchers probably won't sign here this winter. And I don't think it's that the Sox aren't an attractive destination. Chicago is a great city and the Sox are one of the brightest young teams in baseball. I just think our owner is a cheapskate.

I'm sensing that Rick Hahn  is throwing out little hints already to cover for the coming cheapness this winter. He keeps slipping in comments that rebuilds are longer than 3 years and more growing pains are ahead of us. AKA, the Sox might be 'on the cheap' once again this winter.

And really, the rebuild should be over after tomorrow. Rich Hahn should hold a press conference tomorrow after the game and declare the rebuild is over and the White Sox want to win the World Series next year. They should plug the oh so obvious holes and try to win 90-100 games next year. But that would require them acting like a big market team, and they seem to prefer pretending they are the Tamp Bay Rays, Pittsburgh Pirates or San Diego Padres. Oh wait...

So that all said, and I apologize for the long winded post - I really think there's a high chance the Sox dangle Andrew Vaughn this winter for a top young arm. That might the only path towards acquiring a good SP that Jerry's bank account will agree with.

I get your apprehension. I really do. I also have a damn signature that agrees with you about Reinsdorf. It's only plausible if Boston eats money and he passes a rigorous physical on his left arm. However, something like this might be the best way to get a TOR arm. It's not an insane idea, but it's extremely unlikely. 

Regardless, I don't think either the Sox or Sale are interested in a reunion tour. 

Andrew Vaughn for AJ Puk. Who says no? 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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10 hours ago, scs787 said:

 

My question to you guys would be, what would a deal for Sale, with or without the BoSox attaching prospects look like? Would you do something like Lopez, Vaughn, Stiever, and an OF prospect of their choice not named Robert?

For a hard-used, injured pitcher who just hit 30 and has a gargantuan contract?
And trade 2 pitchers (including their best low-minors pitching prospect) when they are woefully short of pitchers.
No thanks.

Edited by GreenSox
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10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I get your apprehension. I really do. I also have a damn signature that agrees with you about Reinsdorf. It's only plausible if Boston eats money and he passes a rigorous physical on his left arm. However, something like this might be the best way to get a TOR arm. It's not an insane idea, but it's extremely unlikely. 

Regardless, I don't think either the Sox or Sale are interested in a reunion tour. 

Andrew Vaughn for AJ Puk. Who says no? 

I think that has both teams considering it at least, so you're on the right track for what I'm thinking. If a guy has a bit more experience in the show, that would probably fit a bit better from the Sox perspective. But they definitely would want a guy with plenty of control or on a good contract. I think it's something worth exploring.

And it's not that I don't want to keep Vaughn. I just think an arm that likely fills a #1 or #2 spot in our rotation is a need that must be filled. And doing a trade like this would leave plenty of money to lock up Moncada and Giolito longterm, plus fill DH and RF.

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1 minute ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Why are people on this forum so eager to trade Andrew Vaughn?

I said it above, but I can say it again if you somehow missed it. I think Reinsdorf is too cheap to sign a TOR starter, and that's probably the only other way we're going to get one.

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13 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I said it above, but I can say it again if you somehow missed it. I think Reinsdorf is too cheap to sign a TOR starter, and that's probably the only other way we're going to get one.

If you're correct, then Wheeler is the only realistic option this offseason for a rotation upgrade. They really need someone to plug and play though. 

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Why are we trading Vaughn when we haven't been able to come up with a single acceptable 1B/DH other than Abreu in the last five years???

 

Are we REALLY betting on Collins, Sheets or Adolfo at that spot?

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Just now, caulfield12 said:

Why are we trading Vaughn when we haven't been able to come up with a single acceptable 1B/DH other than Abreu in the last five years???

 

Are we REALLY betting on Collins, Sheets or Adolfo at that spot?

Eloy is a possibility at either position. 

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39 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Why are people on this forum so eager to trade Andrew Vaughn?

Because it’s Saturday night and apparently everyone is drinking 

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39 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Why are people on this forum so eager to trade Andrew Vaughn?

I see it a lot on Twitter too. I really don't get it. He's a top-25 prospect in baseball for a reason. 

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I miss Sale, but I would 10/10 do the exact trade over and never look back

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7 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I see it a lot on Twitter too. I really don't get it. He's a top-25 prospect in baseball for a reason. 

You're not understanding the point. That he is that good of a prospect is why his name is coming up. How else are we going to get a TOR starter? Unless JR shocks us all and signs Strasburg or Cole this winter. Nobody wants to give him away for nothing.

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15 minutes ago, Sarava said:

You're not understanding the point. That he is that good of a prospect is why his name is coming up. How else are we going to get a TOR starter? Unless JR shocks us all and signs Strasburg or Cole this winter. Nobody wants to give him away for nothing.

Then why not trade Madrigal, or Robert, or Cease, or Kopech? Why is it always Vaughn? I'd much rather trade Madrigal if I had to choose between the two 

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2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Then why not trade Madrigal, or Robert, or Cease, or Kopech? Why is it always Vaughn? I'd much rather trade Madrigal if I had to choose between the two 

Well first of all, if you're trying for starting pitching, why  include Kopech or Cease? Your trading an apple for an apple at that point. Beyond that, all 4 guys you listed will be on the Sox all or most of next year. Vaughn might still be a few years out. 

But hey, if the Sox are going to operate like a small market team(this winter will tell), then they have to do what they have to do.

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3 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Well first of all, if you're trying for starting pitching, why  include Kopech or Cease? Your trading an apple for an apple at that point. Beyond that, all 4 guys you listed will be on the Sox all or most of next year. Vaughn might still be a few years out. 

 But hey, if the Sox are going to operate like a small market team(this winter will tell), then they have to do what they have to do.

Fair point re: pitching for pitching, I was just trying to illustrate that Vaughn isn't the only name that should be included in these hypotheticals.

Where we clearly disagree is on Vaughn's timeline. It's certainly possible that he's a few years out, but I expect to see him next season, or April 2021 at the latest. 

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1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

Fair point re: pitching for pitching, I was just trying to illustrate that Vaughn isn't the only name that should be included in these hypotheticals.

Where we clearly disagree is on Vaughn's timeline. It's certainly possible that he's a few years out, but I expect to see him next season, or April 2021 at the latest

Honestly I have no idea when Andrew will get here. He needs to dominate A ball before I start making plans for him in Chicago.

Another area we might disagree on (not sure) is Nick Madigral. I think he is so opposite of many players in baseball these days, and teams really need guys like him. Watch the Cubs and how their offense gets shutdown so easily because every guy on their team swings for the fences every friggin at-bat. I think/hope he's the kind of guy that can help us have a more consistent offense in the years ahead.

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32 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Honestly I have no idea when Andrew will get here. He needs to dominate A ball before I start making plans for him in Chicago.

Another area we might disagree on (not sure) is Nick Madigral. I think he is so opposite of many players in baseball these days, and teams really need guys like him. Watch the Cubs and how their offense gets shutdown so easily because every guy on their team swings for the fences every friggin at-bat. I think/hope he's the kind of guy that can help us have a more consistent offense in the years ahead.

It appears Madrigal can draw some walks with his .400 OBP in both AA and AAA this year.  That is something this teams bad, even if he OBPs .350 next year that would be huge. If healthy this team should have good pop next year adding in Robert, an actual RF, and a 1B/DH. 

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4 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Why are people on this forum so eager to trade Andrew Vaughn?

It's almost as bad as lets get Chris Sale. 

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7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Eloy is a possibility at either position. 

Give me Eloy and Vaughn.  If JR isn't going to pay anyone, we're screwed anyway.

Our payroll will be low.  I don't honestly believe we'll have trouble paying for a starter.

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8 hours ago, Sarava said:

Honestly I have no idea when Andrew will get here. He needs to dominate A ball before I start making plans for him in Chicago.

Another area we might disagree on (not sure) is Nick Madigral. I think he is so opposite of many players in baseball these days, and teams really need guys like him. Watch the Cubs and how their offense gets shutdown so easily because every guy on their team swings for the fences every friggin at-bat. I think/hope he's the kind of guy that can help us have a more consistent offense in the years ahead.

You just got me excited for Madrigal

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9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

There’s only two Red Sox players the White Sox should be targeting this winter and Chris isn’t one of them.

 Betts and JDM? 

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2 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Give me Eloy and Vaughn.  If JR isn't going to pay anyone, we're screwed anyway.

Our payroll will be low.  I don't honestly believe we'll have trouble paying for a starter.

The payroll isn't going to be as low as people think shortly. Moncada, Giolito and Lopez hit arbitration in 2021. The first two will start to get expensive PDQ. Arbitration salaries start to add up pretty quickly. 

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7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The payroll isn't going to be as low as people think shortly. Moncada, Giolito and Lopez hit arbitration in 2021. The first two will start to get expensive PDQ. Arbitration salaries start to add up pretty quickly. 

Still, that's not justification for moving a guy like Andrew Vaughn right now.  He looks like the next stud after Robert

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6 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Still, that's not justification for moving a guy like Andrew Vaughn right now.  He looks like the next stud after Robert

I don't want to move Vaughn either, but how else are they going to fill holes? It's either him or Madrigal unfortunately. They still suck at developing anything other than top talent. The farm is barren outside of Robert, Madrigal, Kopech and Vaughn. Maybe Stiever can take another step.  3 of them will graduate next year. Where is the prospect currency going to come from to fill holes via trade? We're going to end up like the Cubs after they traded Torres, Cease and Jimenez. It's going to be hard to fill holes where they pop up in season because the farm is back to crap. They HAVE to do better at developing players.  Next year in the mid-season report they're going to be a bottom 5 system. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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