steveno89 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The fact is the White Sox aren’t as desirable as other teams presently. If it was like the NBA where all the offers are basically the same, they would be screwed. The players don’t care that Bridgeport is a sleepy little area without 100 bars within walking distance of the ballpark. They don’t live there or go to these bars after games. But all things being equal, players like being paid, then playing for winning teams, preferable in fun environments. The last 2 pretty much go hand in hand with rare exception. But if you are a top guy and sign a 5 to 10 year contract, you would prefer to have total confidence the organization will be able to contend most of the time you are under contract. The White Sox can try to sell sustained success,, but they aren’t coming from a place of familiarity. A player really has to take a leap of faith thinking the White Sox are going to be good for a long time. Very true^ The Sox have always been about the shrewd, business savvy signings, but free agency is not for the timid when you are competing against other clubs. It requires leaps of faith from the organization to pony up when the time is right to help improve the club. The fanbase has every right to criticize ownership and the front office for the rebuild being a total sham until they spend the money, The time is now to start turning the corner towards contention. No more BS, no more tanking, no more being cheap. Hell, now might be the time to make a huge splash and show the MLB the White Sox have arrived by bringing in a Rendon/Cole/Strasburg with a pile of cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, steveno89 said: Dick, what would you define as a "household name"? Is that a premium free agent a la Cole/Rendon/Stras? Or a second tier free agent like a Wheeler/Grandal/Donaldson/Bumgarner/Ozuna? Guys like Odorizzi/Castellanos/Keuchel/Moustakas/Gibson/Smith/Puig/Hamels constitute the third tier? They trot out an offseason of Odorizzi, Encarnacion and a middling pen arm I will be furious. I think Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon aren’t happening. Everyone else I think they have a decent shot at if they target. Who that will be is anyone’s guess, but at least one of those in the next tier will be signed quickly followed by an I told you so from the offices at 35th and Shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The fact is the White Sox aren’t as desirable as other teams presently. If it was like the NBA where all the offers are basically the same, they would be screwed. The players don’t care that Bridgeport is a sleepy little area without 100 bars within walking distance of the ballpark. They don’t live there or go to these bars after games. But all things being equal, players like being paid, then playing for winning teams, preferable in fun environments. The last 2 pretty much go hand in hand with rare exception. But if you are a top guy and sign a 5 to 10 year contract, you would prefer to have total confidence the organization will be able to contend most of the time you are under contract. The White Sox can try to sell sustained success,, but they aren’t coming from a place of familiarity. A player really has to take a leap of faith thinking the White Sox are going to be good for a long time. I don't understand what is so hard to see here. What you posted is just a fact of the sports world. Maybe people just don't want to believe it because it sucks to realize tour team is second tier. I think this org can turn this all around but it starts right now, and making a legit effort to make this team better now. Once they do this, we will become a truly relevant team. We are definitely on our way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Just now, Dick Allen said: I think Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon aren’t happening. Everyone else I think they have a decent shot at if they target. Who that will be is anyone’s guess, but at least one of those in the next tier will be signed quickly followed by an I told you so from the offices at 35th and Shields. I agree the elite free agents are not realistic. If the front office actually inks a second tier free agent I will be pleasantly surprised, but hard to be shocked when we have the lowest damn payroll in the MLB going into 2020 onward. If they give the fanbase the "seat at the table treatment" there might be no coming back. Wheeler/Bumgarner make sense as a major signing, with guys like Odorizzi/Keuchel/Wood/Roark/etc. as a second starting pitcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: I think Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon aren’t happening. Everyone else I think they have a decent shot at if they target. Who that will be is anyone’s guess, but at least one of those in the next tier will be signed quickly followed by an I told you so from the offices at 35th and Shields. There is no reason we shouldn't target Strasburg. All these other successful rebuilds brought in veteran star pitching. We have a lot of money and should pay him if allowed. Strasburg, Grandal, trade for RF, sign a bullpen arm, and acquire a Hamels type of pitcher for a year and I'm good. This leaves us with a payroll between 130 and 140, assuming Abreu comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, steveno89 said: I agree the elite free agents are not realistic. If the front office actually inks a second tier free agent I will be pleasantly surprised, but hard to be shocked when we have the lowest damn payroll in the MLB going into 2020 onward. If they give the fanbase the "seat at the table treatment" there might be no coming back. Wheeler/Bumgarner make sense as a major signing, with guys like Odorizzi/Keuchel/Wood/Roark/etc. as a second starting pitcher? Agreed. I know everyone here loves Wheeler but I’m thinking it will be Madbum as the premier FA signing this winter and I’m fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Agreed. I know everyone here loves Wheeler but I’m thinking it will be Madbum as the premier FA signing this winter and I’m fine with that. Bumgarner would be a really welcome addition. His best years might be behind him, but he still takes the mound every fifth day and keeps you in the game. I'd be on board for sure. Hard to see him leaving SF, but he would be a rock solid signing. Edited November 5, 2019 by steveno89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 15 minutes ago, steveno89 said: Sarcasm? Either way happy to chime in and/or entertain no, serious haha. I almost always agree with you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Agreed. I know everyone here loves Wheeler but I’m thinking it will be Madbum as the premier FA signing this winter and I’m fine with that. I just don't see how MadBum would want to leave the NL given hes a good hitter, and thoroughly enjoys it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, steveno89 said: Bumgarner would be a really welcome addition. His best years might be behind him, but he still takes the mound every fifth day and keeps you in the game. I'd be on board for sure. MLBTR predicted the Twins sign him at 4/$72M. I would definitely do that if I’m the CWS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, cjgalloway said: I just don't see how MadBum would want to leave the NL given hes a good hitter, and thoroughly enjoys it He could DH for the Sox ala Ohtani (only half-joking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: MLBTR predicted the Twins sign him at 4/$72M. I would definitely do that if I’m the CWS. same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: MLBTR predicted the Twins sign him at 4/$72M. I would definitely do that if I’m the CWS. No chance I let MBum sign with the Twins for 4/72 and not be involved. Expectations for him should be kept in check as he has a ton of mileage on his arm and his best years are likely behind him. He's a really solid #3/4 on a contender moving forward, but I would not expect him to be a #1 or 2 option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, steveno89 said: No chance I let MBum sign with the Twins for 4/72 and not be involved. Expectations for him should be kept in check as he has a ton of mileage on his arm and his best years are likely behind him. He's a really solid #3/4 on a contender moving forward, but I would not expect him to be a #1 or 2 option. Understood and that’s where I’d slot him in the future. #3 behind Gio and hopefully a healthy Kopech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Go read the fangraphs article on FA. It will make everyone want to blow their brains out. I think Kiley is light for Cole, Stras, MBum and Wheeler's markets. Teams crave starting pitching, and I could see a feeding frenzy for what quality FA options exist. Clubs in contention windows will feel the pressure to stockpile arms. I see Bum and Wheeler both getting at least 4/80 million, if not substantially more. Each could have 5-10 teams all over them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) Quote There’s some buzz that the White Sox will be active for veteran help, particularly on short-term deals with lower guarantees. After getting under the luxury tax, the Dodgers seem poised to spend, with multiple sources tying them to Rendon, while the two top pitchers on the market (Cole, Strasburg) are SoCal natives. The Yankees had the third-best record and third-best run differential in baseball, but seem a player or two short and weren’t able to stay under the luxury tax to reset the penalties; they seem likely to spend in this area again. Philadelphia seems primed to spend again this offseason to help get past Washington and Atlanta. Speaking of which, Atlanta has a stable of young players to fill in the back of the roster, but needs a couple frontline types from the top 10 of the list to raise their upside. Cincinnati, San Diego, and the Mets all seem to be focused on a playoff run in 2020, which could result in them making moves more aggressively this winter than other teams with similar talent. From Kiley McDaniel 7 minutes ago, steveno89 said: I think Kiley is light for Cole, Stras, MBum and Wheeler's markets. Teams crave starting pitching, and I could see a feeding frenzy for what quality FA options exist. Clubs in contention windows will feel the pressure to stockpile arms. I see Bum and Wheeler both getting at least 4/80 million, if not substantially more. Each could have 5-10 teams all over them. The above quote is what I was talking about. It doesn't look like they're doing anything outside of 1-2 year deals, which makes one want to commit seppuku. They might get lucky and land Keuchel on a 2 year deal, but I wouldn't expect much more than players in the EE, Wood, Pineda, Roark tier. idk what Dickerson would get but he might be an option. Edited November 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Understood and that’s where I’d slot him in the future. #3 behind Gio and hopefully a healthy Kopech. 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: From Kiley McDaniel The above quote is what I was talking about. It doesn't look like they're doing anything outside of 1-2 year deals, which makes one want to commit seppuku. I'm not sure the Sox can sit back and rely on internal options again, the fanbase would be livid. In 2021 we have Betts, Springer, Bauer, Semien, Tanaka, Stroman, Ray, Realmuto, Minor, Simmons, Kluber, Hand, and a slew of lower tier free agents. Long story short, it's not a stellar class. Additions will have to be made this offseason, it cannot all happen a year from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 It would be very fitting for the Sox to want to maintain a lower payroll to be able to extend players down the road, and then not end up extending them or having those players not turn into stars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Also, let me add I don’t think anyone knows the true plans for the Sox outside of the organization. Vinnie Duber said the exact opposite of what Kiley said. After last year, it sure seems the Sox have tried to keep leaks from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Yeah, there is a 0% chance Kiley has any idea what the Sox are going to be doing. None of these people have any idea what they will be doing. For them to only be looking for 1-2 year deals is absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Yeah, there is a 0% chance Kiley has any idea what the Sox are going to be doing. None of these people have any idea what they will be doing. For them to only be looking for 1-2 year deals is absurd. Can't fault Kiley, or anyone expecting the Chicago White Sox to be the...Chicago White Sox until proven otherwise though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: From Kiley McDaniel The above quote is what I was talking about. It doesn't look like they're doing anything outside of 1-2 year deals, which makes one want to commit seppuku. If that’s the approach, give me Ryu, Hamels, Calhoun, Encarnacion, and Harris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, fathom said: Also, let me add I don’t think anyone knows the true plans for the Sox outside of the organization. Vinnie Duber said the exact opposite of what Kiley said. After last year, it sure seems the Sox have tried to keep leaks from happening. I hope that's the approach. I hope they're not linked to anyone except as a "mystery team" Old KW stealth mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: If that’s the approach, give me Ryu, Hamels, Calhoun, Encarnacion, and Harris. I'd rather them trade for Pederson than sign Calhoun, if we're talking 1-2 year commitments. If that's the approach, Ryu, Wood, Encarnacion, trade for Pederson, I guess Harris would be ok as well. Edited November 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, steveno89 said: Can't fault Kiley, or anyone expecting the Chicago White Sox to be the...Chicago White Sox until proven otherwise though See that's always been my point and I get bashed constantly for being a Pessimistic Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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