A Realistic Offseason

[hi8is]

21 minutes ago, poppysox said:

We shall see.

No, we won’t.

[poppysox]

14 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Unless you think the Sox plan to flirt with the luxury tax on 2022-2025, there is zero percent chance the OD payroll is north of $150M. To do what you’re proposing in one offseason is just simply not feasible. 

Many things will change between now and 2025.  I refuse to believe we need to stay in the middle of the pack instead of top third in order to pay future extensions.  Some of these young guns will be extended and some will be traded in exchange for future young guns.  That's how the Braves and Cardinals do it.

[caulfield12]

28 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If Wheeler can be had for 4 or 5 years and Ryu 2 or 3 that isn't crippling from a payroll standpoint. The point is we need to trust that the lineup will produce much better than last year with some minimal  but inexpensive quality stopgaps I trust the Robert and Madrigal to be good next year more than I trust or believe that Kopech, Cease or Lopez become good next year. That's my main reason for wanting more pitching and the fact that you can go deeper in the playoff with a solid rotation more than a solid lineup. I don't think it's possible to upgrade both a lot. Concessions to payroll have to be made somewhere so I made them in the lineup'

Maybe someone should do a poll and see what the rest of the posters think about who could be a breakout type player in 2020. List Robert , Madrigal,  Collins, Lopez, Cease and Kopech or even Mercedes Give people the choice to list them  as 1st choice 2nd choice and third choice.

Robert probably easily wins that poll but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th guys will be interesting. Maybe the poll shouldn't say breakout but instead say above league average or something along those lines.

There's certainly an argument to made that the pitching options right now COULD be better than 2020-21...especially with the unknown factor of extensions being signed to take players off the market, along with the QO issue.

The problem is Bumgarner/Ryu/Keuchel/Hamels are going to be expecting between $14-18 million, and you better be absolutely sure (and this is ASSUMING you lock in Wheeler at the front of the rotation, which is FAR from a sure thing)...because the White Sox have historically been crippled by singular contracts like Dunn and Danks going bad.

I have a feeling the front office is placing their bets on those three youngsters, Rodon and possibly Dunning.

The preference is likely for one of those wild cards like Pineda or Miley or Gio G. or someone in the $7-11 million range to be that back-end filler on a shorter-term deal, not knowing how those five (or even Giolito, for that matter) are going to perform in 2020.

Whether we agree with it or not...that's another story.

 

[BackDoorBreach]

51 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You can never have enough starting pitching.I think we saw an example of that in that famous thread that asked if we had too much pitching.  If you want to win a World Series you need 3 studs. The less choices or options you have to choose among those potential studs just limits your options. Ryu might not require a deal longer than 3 years. That's very doable for a Cy Young type candidate. Rodon isn't an option beyond 2021 so he's not really a long term option.

You have to assume at least one injury . Not having any starting pitcher get injured isn't very likely and as I said before Kopech Cease Lopez and Dunning all of them have a long way to go to become good reliable starting pitchers. My way only Lopez is a casualty but will get plenty of starts if Kopech and Cease spend time back in the minors which is also likely especially for Kopech and his innings limit. Otherwise Cease is your number 4 and Kopech your 5 to help limit his innings.

If someone blows their arm or sucks ,which always seems to happen , why wait to 2021 to fix it when you can have the depth this year to combat the problems associated with injuries and very young untested pitchers. 2020 just becomes another year of waiting for the rebuild to work and wasting core position players years.

This is a really long post to just say you think we should have 4-5 developing pitchers that need as many IP as possible into 2021 and 2 pitchers making actual money over 3 years.  

Rodon and Lopez would have to be traded.  If that is your take then cool, it's your take.  But if that doesn't happen they will have 7 SP, and not the Alex Wood type bounce backs.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

This is a really long post to just say you think we should have 4-5 developing pitchers that need as many IP as possible into 2021 and 2 pitchers making actual money over 3 years.  

Rodon and Lopez would have to be traded.  If that is your take then cool, it's your take.  But if that doesn't happen they will have 7 SP, and not the Alex Wood type bounce backs.

Dunning's stuff would probably play up more as a reliever...we'll see what type of stuff he comes back with in April.

A breakthrough there would save another $5-10 million on someone to relieve the pressure on Colome/Bummer/Fry...because we definitely can't count on Herrera bouncing back.

[Good Guys]

Right now the White Sox have 3 starting pitchers.  2 previous starters are expected back from Tommy John surgery at some point in 2020.  Both will start in the minors for at least some rehab starts and be called up when they are ready.  One has yet to pitch 15 innings at the big league level and the other has only pitched more than 150 innings once in 5 seasons.  The White Sox might get one quality starter this offseason but if they have the chance to get two I think they should go for it.  If at any point the White Sox have 7 starters that are healthy and playing well enough to be on a contending club then the Sox will likely be going to the postseason.  I don't see this as a problem.  

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, Good Guys said:

Right now the White Sox have 3 starting pitchers.  2 previous starters are expected back from Tommy John surgery at some point in 2020.  Both will start in the minors for at least some rehab starts and be called up when they are ready.  One has yet to pitch 15 innings at the big league level and the other has only pitched more than 150 innings once in 5 seasons.  The White Sox might get one quality starter this offseason but if they have the chance to get two I think they should go for it.  If at any point the White Sox have 7 starters that are healthy and playing well enough to be on a contending club then the Sox will likely be going to the postseason.  I don't see this as a problem.  

I just don’t see the point of adding two multi-year starters unless the terms of the second guy are just incredibly team favorable.  The idea that you can never have too much pitching is true, but you can certainty commit too much of your resources to your pitching staff.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

This is a really long post to just say you think we should have 4-5 developing pitchers that need as many IP as possible into 2021 and 2 pitchers making actual money over 3 years.  

Rodon and Lopez would have to be traded.  If that is your take then cool, it's your take.  But if that doesn't happen they will have 7 SP, and not the Alex Wood type bounce backs.

I like to be thorough when communicating. I'm not tied into any particular way. We all have aour preferences .I just want enough quality guys to be signed for the best team possible within whatever payroll constraints the Sox have. I'm not going to complain if it ends up different which it will as long as whatever they do ends up with a good record and seeing good results from more young guys like we have seen with Gio, Moncada and Eloy.

[pcq]

Just now, BackDoorBreach said:

Yes, pitching is extremely important.  But unless you are trading Lopez this year there is no logic that says sign 2 multi-year SP.

They will have 6 starting SP on the roster in the first half, 4 needing growth and 2 making money, and 7 after the ASB if Rodon doesn't go to the pen which would hurt his diminished value more.

2021 it would be the same story unless we trade SP assets.

Teams use 30-plus pitchers during the season so the SP search is eternal. With a little luck our ace Rodon could be back by August before going on the DL. The Sox know that guys like Nova and Lopez provide crucial IP and we seem to run out of arms before the season ends which is an embarrassment. 

[poppysox]

Tsutsogo was posted this morning.  Power hitter corner outfielder with suspect glove.  Interesting to see if FO has interest.  Maybe this eras Iguchi.

[SCCWS]

14 hours ago, mqr said:

 

lmao

There was a good amount of speculation he would not be returning to Boston when the season ended. He thanked the team/fans in an instagram post and  even gave all his bats away to fans outside the stadium after the last game. I think if Hahn wants him, he would be a low price 2yr $4-5 Mil utility guy.  He is LH but no pop in his bat.  The article indicated there is a FO connection to Holt in AZ.  Clubhouse cheerleader kind of guy. 

[Orlando]

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Orlando

[bmags]

all of fegan's pieces the last week and a half have been excellent.

[DirtySox]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

all of fegan's pieces the last week and a half have been excellent.

He makes an Athletic subscription so worth it. I love the support he received yesterday on Twitter after being called out by Phil Rogers regarding his Moncada vote.

Edited November 15, 2019 by DirtySox

[ChiSox59]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I just don’t see the point of adding two multi-year starters unless the terms of the second guy are just incredibly team favorable.  The idea that you can never have too much pitching is true, but you can certainty commit too much of your resources to your pitching staff.

Especially when, in today's market, there should be plenty of solid SP options available on 1 year deals.  Just make the first SP add an impact one.

The one situation where I could get behind the logic on two SP on multiyear deals is Wheeler + Ryu.  And that is if Ryu could actually be attained a 2 year deal in the $30-35M range a FG projected.  

[mqr]

30 minutes ago, bmags said:

all of fegan's pieces the last week and a half have been excellent.

I fear he's not long for the beat

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

32 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

He makes an Athletic subscription so worth it. I love the support he received yesterday on Twitter after being called out by Phil Rogers regarding his Moncada vote.

It was classic Rogers, clueless as always. 

People put DJ, Nelson Cruz and Meadows on their ballots and Rogers took onus with Fegan putting a top 10 player in WAR on the ballot. What a dunce.

I actually bought the athletic subscription at the beginning solely for Fegan and Kenny Rosenthal.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[steveno89]

29 minutes ago, mqr said:

I fear he's not long for the beat

I could certainly see Fegan moving up the food chain, but really appreciate the work he is doing on White Sox coverage

[hi8is]

How your burger and beer shirt seems like such a distant memory and yet, it is so real.

[steveno89]

50 minutes ago, hi8is said:

How your burger and beer shirt seems like such a distant memory and yet, it is so real.

I've thought about changing it, but said screw it haha. Hope springs eternal. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, DirtySox said:

He makes an Athletic subscription so worth it. I love the support he received yesterday on Twitter after being called out by Phil Rogers regarding his Moncada vote.

That Rogers tweet was an all-time classic.

[ChiSox59]

Chris Martin off the board. 2 year $14 million back to Braves.  Always felt he was a cheaper pen option that made some sense.  

Edited November 20, 2019 by ChiSox59

[BamaDoc]

With Colome at around 10 million and Herrera at 8, I am not sure we go beyond a 3-5 million reliever.

[fathom]

Sherman brings up idea of JA Happ and pitching prospect to the Sox

https://nypost.com/2019/11/19/j-a-happ-trade-rumblings-part-of-yankees-gerrit-cole-puzzle/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, fathom said:

Sherman brings up idea of JA Happ and pitching prospect to the Sox

https://nypost.com/2019/11/19/j-a-happ-trade-rumblings-part-of-yankees-gerrit-cole-puzzle/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Well, we're always good to take another team's expendable veteran off their hands (with a salary subsidy) and send back prospects to save on payroll...