The Official Too Soon Mock Off Season Thread

[TheFutureIsNear]

I’m sure I can’t be the only 1 chomping at the bit to mock the Sox off season....don’t know if I have the authority to make an “official” thread, but makes sense to keep them all in 1 spot. Anyway, here’s mine: 

 

Trade with Mariners:

Steele Walker, Gavin Sheets, and Konnor Pilkington for Mitch Haniger

 

Free Agent Signings: Marcell Ozuna, Zack Wheeler, Alex Wood, Travis d’Arnaud, Brad Bach, Collin Mchugh 

 

26 Man Roster by Mid May:

CF- Robert

3B- Moncada

1B/DH- Jose

RF- Haniger

LF- Ozuna

DH/LF- Eloy

SS- Anderson

C- McCann

2B- Madrigal

Bench- d’Arnaud, Collins (C/1B/DH), Yolmer, Luery

 

Gio

Wheeler 

Kopech

Cease

Lopez

 

LH- Wood, Fry

RH- Cordero, Brach, McHugh, Marshall

Setup: Bummer

Closer: Colome

 

Haniger is a LH bat under cheap cost control with good pop and above average D in RF. Coming off a down year and an injury he makes a ton of sense to target. Not sure what his price would be or if anyone would offer a top 100, but I took a stab with what I feel is a solid offer. 

 

I know Ozuna isn’t the most popular name here, but to me it’s going to come down to Ozuna or JDM as potential impact bats we have a realistic chance of signing. I chose Ozuna because JD shouldn’t be in the OF and could cause a roster jam with Jose, Collins and Vaughn 

 

Wheeler is the best hope for me at SP because I know the Sox aren’t handing out a record setting deal to Cole.

 

Alex wood is a worth a shot on the talent. A role in the pen could also better suit his arm.

 

d’Arnaud is a catcher that is regarded as 1 of the better pitch framers and also has pop. Won’t play a ton, but in order to get Collins AB’s at 1B/DH/ PH we will need a 3rd catcher. Could do worse than d’Arnaud and should be cheap

 

I’d like to do better in the bullpen, but there aren't many great names out there and what is out there will be crazy overpriced. Because I don’t think this is a World Series year, I’m not interested in handing out big bullpen contracts yet. McHugh and Brach have both had success fairly recently and should be had for reasonable deals. If the team is in contention a move for a better RH pen arm at the deadline is always possible 

 

Without trying to guess exact contracts I’d say that puts the payroll in the mid 90’s and in position to at least stay in contention in the division. 

 

[Sleepy Harold]

5 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I’m sure I can’t be the only 1 chomping at the bit to mock the Sox off season....don’t know if I have the authority to make an “official” thread, but makes sense to keep them all in 1 spot. Anyway, here’s mine: 

 

Trade with Mariners:

Steele Walker, Gavin Sheets, and Konnor Pilkington for Mitch Haniger

 

Free Agent Signings: Marcell Ozuna, Zack Wheeler, Alex Wood, Travis d’Arnaud, Brad Bach, Collin Mchugh 

 

26 Man Roster by Mid May:

CF- Robert

3B- Moncada

1B/DH- Jose

RF- Haniger

LF- Ozuna

DH/LF- Eloy

SS- Anderson

C- McCann

2B- Madrigal

Bench- d’Arnaud, Collins (C/1B/DH), Yolmer, Luery

 

Gio

Wheeler 

Kopech

Cease

Lopez

 

LH- Wood, Fry

RH- Cordero, Brach, McHugh, Marshall

Setup: Bummer

Closer: Colome

 

Haniger is a LH bat under cheap cost control with good pop and above average D in RF. Coming off a down year and an injury he makes a ton of sense to target. Not sure what his price would be or if anyone would offer a top 100, but I took a stab with what I feel is a solid offer. 

 

I know Ozuna isn’t the most popular name here, but to me it’s going to come down to Ozuna or JDM as potential impact bats we have a realistic chance of signing. I chose Ozuna because JD shouldn’t be in the OF and could cause a roster jam with Jose, Collins and Vaughn 

 

Wheeler is the best hope for me at SP because I know the Sox aren’t handing out a record setting deal to Cole.

 

Alex wood is a worth a shot on the talent. A role in the pen could also better suit his arm.

 

d’Arnaud is a catcher that is regarded as 1 of the better pitch framers and also has pop. Won’t play a ton, but in order to get Collins AB’s at 1B/DH/ PH we will need a 3rd catcher. Could do worse than d’Arnaud and should be cheap

 

I’d like to do better in the bullpen, but there aren't many great names out there and what is out there will be crazy overpriced. Because I don’t think this is a World Series year, I’m not interested in handing out big bullpen contracts yet. McHugh and Brach have both had success fairly recently and should be had for reasonable deals. If the team is in contention a move for a better RH pen arm at the deadline is always possible 

 

Without trying to guess exact contracts I’d say that puts the payroll in the mid 90’s and in position to at least stay in contention in the division. 

 

I wouldn't be opposed to buying low on Haniger, but he is a RH batter FWIW. I like the Wheeler/Wood combo as well

[BackDoorBreach]

I don't like Haniger the same reasons I don't like Nimmo, Mazara, Dickerson, G. Polanco et cetera.  You are essentially gambling they have a good year/stay healthy while giving up our few tradeable prospects that have any value.  Haniger is RH, btw.  We are better off signing Castellanos or Ozuna for just money, even though I'm not that high on Ozuna and would rather get Nick, their bats show.

If we are going to move any of our tradeable assests I'd rather them be for the Benintendi's, Conforto's, Brian Anderson's of the world that are around a 3 WAR staple.  It won't happen though because we don't have the assets to grab those guys.

Grab Nick Castellanos, Cole or Strasburg if you can, Wheeler is getting a QO attached to him and I don't like that but if he is best available give him money. 

Grandal if available you grab him to give flexibility to DH/1B/C between Abreu, McCann, Collins, and Yasmani. Even though I am pretty sure the FO would look at a Grandal as a luxury signing and not a need.

Get JDM if he opts out.  This should be the 2nd priority behind SP.

If Moose is there you sign him and stick him at 1B/DH which negates Grandal.

Kole Calhoun sucks and I don't want him unless they have decided to give Mookie whatever he wants 2021 which won't happen.

 

 

[Capital G]

I would rather not trade the few chips we have. Our minors are not stacked with talent. We have plenty of $ to spend.

In RF I would take any of Ozuna, Dickerson, Puig. I dont want Castellanos bc of his poor D. We dont need Eloy and him at corners in the OF.

SP I' take 2 of Odorizzi, Wheeler, Ryu, Keuchel.... of course, if a FA Stras should be the first target. Cole is not happening w/ the teams that will be going after him.

Grandal should be a target.

Grab a couple of BP arms.

Yolmer should be replaced by Mendick. Use the Yolmer $ towards the above.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I don't like Haniger the same reasons I don't like Nimmo, Mazara, Dickerson, G. Polanco et cetera.  You are essentially gambling they have a good year/stay healthy while giving up our few tradeable prospects that have any value.  Haniger is RH, btw.  We are better off signing Castellanos or Ozuna for just money, even though I'm not that high on Ozuna and would rather get Nick, their bats show.

If we are going to move any of our tradeable assests I'd rather them be for the Benintendi's, Conforto's, Brian Anderson's of the world that are around a 3 WAR staple.  It won't happen though because we don't have the assets to grab those guys.

Grab Nick Castellanos, Cole or Strasburg if you can, Wheeler is getting a QO attached to him and I don't like that but if he is best available give him money. 

Grandal if available you grab him to give flexibility to DH/1B/C between Abreu, McCann, Collins, and Yasmani. Even though I am pretty sure the FO would look at a Grandal as a luxury signing and not a need.

Get JDM if he opts out.  This should be the 2nd priority behind SP.

If Moose is there you sign him and stick him at 1B/DH which negates Grandal.

Kole Calhoun sucks and I don't want him unless they have decided to give Mookie whatever he wants 2021 which won't happen.

 

 

No assets for Dickerson. He is a free agent.

[Bob Sacamano]

14 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I’m sure I can’t be the only 1 chomping at the bit to mock the Sox off season....don’t know if I have the authority to make an “official” thread, but makes sense to keep them all in 1 spot. Anyway, here’s mine: 

 

Trade with Mariners:

Steele Walker, Gavin Sheets, and Konnor Pilkington for Mitch Haniger

 

Free Agent Signings: Marcell Ozuna, Zack Wheeler, Alex Wood, Travis d’Arnaud, Brad Bach, Collin Mchugh 

 

26 Man Roster by Mid May:

CF- Robert

3B- Moncada

1B/DH- Jose

RF- Haniger

LF- Ozuna

DH/LF- Eloy

SS- Anderson

C- McCann

2B- Madrigal

Bench- d’Arnaud, Collins (C/1B/DH), Yolmer, Luery

 

Gio

Wheeler 

Kopech

Cease

Lopez

 

LH- Wood, Fry

RH- Cordero, Brach, McHugh, Marshall

Setup: Bummer

Closer: Colome

 

Haniger is a LH bat under cheap cost control with good pop and above average D in RF. Coming off a down year and an injury he makes a ton of sense to target. Not sure what his price would be or if anyone would offer a top 100, but I took a stab with what I feel is a solid offer. 

 

I know Ozuna isn’t the most popular name here, but to me it’s going to come down to Ozuna or JDM as potential impact bats we have a realistic chance of signing. I chose Ozuna because JD shouldn’t be in the OF and could cause a roster jam with Jose, Collins and Vaughn 

 

Wheeler is the best hope for me at SP because I know the Sox aren’t handing out a record setting deal to Cole.

 

Alex wood is a worth a shot on the talent. A role in the pen could also better suit his arm.

 

d’Arnaud is a catcher that is regarded as 1 of the better pitch framers and also has pop. Won’t play a ton, but in order to get Collins AB’s at 1B/DH/ PH we will need a 3rd catcher. Could do worse than d’Arnaud and should be cheap

 

I’d like to do better in the bullpen, but there aren't many great names out there and what is out there will be crazy overpriced. Because I don’t think this is a World Series year, I’m not interested in handing out big bullpen contracts yet. McHugh and Brach have both had success fairly recently and should be had for reasonable deals. If the team is in contention a move for a better RH pen arm at the deadline is always possible 

 

Without trying to guess exact contracts I’d say that puts the payroll in the mid 90’s and in position to at least stay in contention in the division. 

 

Yeah, Haniger isn't left-handed.

And d'Arnaud can do better than third catcher on another team considering he hits 3rd for the Rays. They could even bring him back.

Edited September 30, 2019 by soxfan2014

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Give me Wheeler, JD Martinez, a competent right fielder, a back end of the rotation starting pitcher, and a reliever and I'll be happy.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Capital G said:

I would rather not trade the few chips we have. Our minors are not stacked with talent. We have plenty of $ to spend.

In RF I would take any of Ozuna, Dickerson, Puig. I dont want Castellanos bc of his poor D. We dont need Eloy and him at corners in the OF.

SP I' take 2 of Odorizzi, Wheeler, Ryu, Keuchel.... of course, if a FA Stras should be the first target. Cole is not happening w/ the teams that will be going after him.

Grandal should be a target.

Grab a couple of BP arms.

Yolmer should be replaced by Mendick. Use the Yolmer $ towards the above.

I like the plan however still need to upgrade the bench. Sorry Yolmer and Leury but pick among Brock Holt, Scooter Gennett, Moustakas, Or pick all three  More power here and a chance at a lot of excess value with Gennett. One guy should be a riskier bounce back type with a chance of striking gold but a failure in that more or less covered with a guy like Holt . I left out older and RH guys like Hendricks, Dozier. Kipnis, Castro. Holt really is ideal. He is consistently good on both sides of the ball and plays infield and OF.

I suppose if you took all three one would have to be a starter somewhere so can't really do that. Moose at DH starting and basically backing up 1st , 3rd and 2nd  without either Holt or Gennett if you go with Mendick to save some money. If I was forced to take 2 of the 3 I guess it would be Holt and Moose . But it is hard to pass on Gennett because he has the chance to provide the most excess value.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I like the plan however still need to upgrade the bench. Sorry Yolmer and Leury but pick among Brock Holt, Scooter Gennett, Moustakas, Or pick all three  More power here and a chance at a lot of excess value with Gennett. One guy should be a riskier bounce back type with a chance of striking gold but a failure in that more or less covered with a guy like Holt . I left out older and RH guys like Hendricks, Dozier. Kipnis, Castro. Holt really is ideal. He is consistently good on both sides of the ball and plays infield and OF.

I suppose if you took all three one would have to be a starter somewhere so can't really do that. Moose at DH starting and basically backing up 1st , 3rd and 2nd  without either Holt or Gennett if you go with Mendick to save some money. If I was forced to take 2 of the 3 I guess it would be Holt and Moose . But it is hard to pass on Gennett because he has the chance to provide the most excess value.

I like Kendrick as a bench idea.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, soxfan2014 said:

I like Kendrick as a bench idea.

Had a great season but I left him off because he's righty and 36 just to cut down on the chance of failure since the older you get the chances of injury and skills diminishing increase. For just 1 year he's OK. Sox really do need a lot more lefties .

[TheFutureIsNear]

My bad on Haniger, don’t know why I was so sure he’s LH...still wouldn’t deter me from checking into the price as I think he’s be a great fit regardless and could he had at a discount. Also, I’m not sure why people are afraid to trade prospects. Obviously we need to hold onto the core top 6/7 guys, but to me we tanked to have prospects to use as value chips. Can’t wait on all of them...

 

Also, JD Martinez sounds great in theory, but how would we get either Collins or Vaughn AB’s if we presumably have Jose and JD locked into 1B/DH for 2+ years? Obviously a bat like JD’s would be great, but I dont think it’s a great idea to block 2 recent top 10 picks 

Edited September 30, 2019 by TheFutureIsNear

[BamaDoc]

48 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No assets for Dickerson. He is a free agent.

What would you give for him?  He is negatively rated for defense and has not played right field and has a broken foot?

[Bob Sacamano]

 

20 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

My bad on Haniger, don’t know why I was so sure he’s LH...still wouldn’t deter me from checking into the price as I think he’s be a great fit regardless and could he had at a discount. Also, I’m not sure why people are afraid to trade prospects. Obviously we need to hold onto the core top 6/7 guys, but to me we tanked to have prospects to use as value chips. Can’t wait on all of them...

 

Also, JD Martinez sounds great in theory, but how would we get either Collins or Vaughn AB’s if we presumably have Jose and JD locked into 1B/DH for 2+ years? Obviously a bat like JD’s would be great, but I dont think it’s a great idea to block 2 recent top 10 picks 

Let's see how long of a deal Abreu signs first. Hopefully they go year-to-year with him.

Edited September 30, 2019 by soxfan2014

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

My bad on Haniger, don’t know why I was so sure he’s LH...still wouldn’t deter me from checking into the price as I think he’s be a great fit regardless and could he had at a discount. Also, I’m not sure why people are afraid to trade prospects. Obviously we need to hold onto the core top 6/7 guys, but to me we tanked to have prospects to use as value chips. Can’t wait on all of them...

 

Also, JD Martinez sounds great in theory, but how would we get either Collins or Vaughn AB’s if we presumably have Jose and JD locked into 1B/DH for 2+ years? Obviously a bat like JD’s would be great, but I dont think it’s a great idea to block 2 recent top 10 picks 

That's why I prefer Moose at DH  and he also is versatile enough to cover 1st 3rd and 2nd. I don't like anyone mentioning Vaughn at all because I know everyone is expecting great things and a fast rise from him but that's no walk in the park. Or also why some prefer Grandal to rotate Collins and Grandal and McCann in the DH role.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

What would you give for him?  He is negatively rated for defense and has not played right field and has a broken foot?

Well if you plan to use a lot of the budget on starting pitching, somewhere you are going to have to settle for someone not ideal. I don't think he is a terrible fielder like Catellanos or a personality risk like Puig or too expensive like Ozuna or Grandal might be . I think the bench needs upgrades that shouldn't be too expensive like Holt, Mendick, Moose or Gennett. Plus there's the OBP problem to think about and Grandal fills that bill best I suppose so if you spend the majority of money on starting pitching and Grandal then it might not leave much for RF and bench depth which is why I'm thinking Holt and Dickerson . I don't think either one will require much more if even $10M a year for 2 years. Might even get Dickerson for 1 year but if there's enough left for someone better we can get better. He has always been a really good hitter though.

[TheFutureIsNear]

10 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

 

Let's see how long of a deal Abreu signs first. Hopefully they go year-to-year with him.

Yeah In a perfect world....But We all know this isn’t going to happen. 

[BamaDoc]

What would you give for him?  He is negatively rated for defense and has not played right field and has a broken foot?

"This makes it sound like you're asking what we trade for him."

Sorry my wording was bad.  I meant what contract would you offer him and again it may create two bad defenders in the outfield.  

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That's why I prefer Moose at DH  and he also is versatile enough to cover 1st 3rd and 2nd. I don't like anyone mentioning Vaughn at all because I know everyone is expecting great things and a fast rise from him but that's no walk in the park. Or also why some prefer Grandal to rotate Collins and Grandal and McCann in the DH role.

I don't mind Moose as DH, in my "Realistic Plan" thread I took Grandal over Moose and would use Grandal as DH/1B on non catching days.  If Collins is going to play he will have to earn it and could as I think there are bats there for all.  If McCann hits like he has in the second half, he won't be wanted for DH at bats.  Again I was being realistic in that we have limits in spending and I spent on C/DH, 2 SP, and a RF option I feel is a lot better than most (Gardner).  I agree with you we need LH bats which is what I added.  Moose at 12 million easy isn't a bench player and likely doesn't want to be primarily a DH.  Kendrick made 4 million.  His WAR 2.9 vs 2.2 Yolmer.  Would he take being a bench bat?

[bmags]

We've hashed out most of the known available players or likely acquirable.

But for me I'm most interested in finding out:

- What signals the red sox send

- What signals the pirates send

- What signals the cubs send

- What signals the Royals send

These may end up pushing some interesting players into consideration. For me, I'd rather trade some of these pieces while still valuable than hold on until warts are exposed. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

What would you give for him?  He is negatively rated for defense and has not played right field and has a broken foot?

"This makes it sound like you're asking what we trade for him."

Sorry my wording was bad.  I meant what contract would you offer him and again it may create two bad defenders in the outfield.  

I don't mind Moose as DH, in my "Realistic Plan" thread I took Grandal over Moose and would use Grandal as DH/1B on non catching days.  If Collins is going to play he will have to earn it and could as I think there are bats there for all.  If McCann hits like he has in the second half, he won't be wanted for DH at bats.  Again I was being realistic in that we have limits in spending and I spent on C/DH, 2 SP, and a RF option I feel is a lot better than most (Gardner).  I agree with you we need LH bats which is what I added.  Moose at 12 million easy isn't a bench player and likely doesn't want to be primarily a DH.  Kendrick made 4 million.  His WAR 2.9 vs 2.2 Yolmer.  Would he take being a bench bat?

I generally like the Gradner option but again i'm trying to stick with younger guys but then again an older guy is one of those not ideal guys I mentioned and certainly is a good fielder. I could live with that but having 2 older guys like Gardner and Kendrick is too much.

Edited September 30, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[BamaDoc]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well if you plan to use a lot of the budget on starting pitching, somewhere you are going to have to settle for someone not ideal. I don't think he is a terrible fielder like Catellanos or a personality risk like Puig or too expensive like Ozuna or Grandal might be . I think the bench needs upgrades that shouldn't be too expensive like Holt, Mendick, Moose or Gennett. Plus there's the OBP problem to think about and Grandal fills that bill best I suppose so if you spend the majority of money on starting pitching and Grandal then it might not leave much for RF and bench depth which is why I'm thinking Holt and Dickerson . I don't think either one will require much more if even $10M a year for 2 years. Might even get Dickerson for 1 year but if there's enough left for someone better we can get better. He has always been a really good hitter though.

I totally respect your opinions.  Could you clarify $10 a year for two years?  I don't understand to whom you are referring.  It is also why I really think Gardner makes sense.  So consistent, good OBP, glove and LH.  His only knock is age but he is 4.1 WAR this year.  I think age makes him cheaper and shorter contract (2?) which fits perfectly for one of our guys in minors to develop and take over.  In two years that would also free up money to reallocate.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

We've hashed out most of the known available players or likely acquirable.

But for me I'm most interested in finding out:

- What signals the red sox send

As of right now, they are apparently under orders from ownership to get beneath the luxury tax line next season.

[mqr]

41 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Also, JD Martinez sounds great in theory, but how would we get either Collins or Vaughn AB’s if we presumably have Jose and JD locked into 1B/DH for 2+ years? 

Too many good players is a problem I want to have

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I totally respect your opinions.  Could you clarify $10 a year for two years?  I don't understand to whom you are referring.  It is also why I really think Gardner makes sense.  So consistent, good OBP, glove and LH.  His only knock is age but he is 4.1 WAR this year.  I think age makes him cheaper and shorter contract (2?) which fits perfectly for one of our guys in minors to develop and take over.  In two years that would also free up money to reallocate.

For Holt  and or Dickerson meaning $10M a year or less than that. I haven't given what it takes to get Gardner much thought but I like the idea and trust your judgement on it. I'm good since I haven't even figured out a backup in CF while I'm upgrading the bench and Gardner can still backup CF can't he ?

Edited September 30, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[SoxBlanco]

3 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I totally respect your opinions.  Could you clarify $10 a year for two years?  I don't understand to whom you are referring.  It is also why I really think Gardner makes sense.  So consistent, good OBP, glove and LH.  His only knock is age but he is 4.1 WAR this year.  I think age makes him cheaper and shorter contract (2?) which fits perfectly for one of our guys in minors to develop and take over.  In two years that would also free up money to reallocate.

He's talking about Holt and Dickerson. He thinks either of those two guys can be signed for a max of $10 million per year.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

Too many good players is a problem I want to have

Too many guys who can't play defense even if their bats are really good is not a problem I want to have. Literally does not matter how good their bats are if they are as bad as our current RF group.