The Official Too Soon Mock Off Season Thread

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

As of right now, they are apparently under orders from ownership to get beneath the luxury tax line next season.

Yes, and I want to know what is actually available from that. 

[BamaDoc]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

For Holt  and or Dickerson meaning $10M a year or less than that. I haven't given what it takes to get Gardner much thought but I like the idea and trust your judgement on it. I'm good since I haven't even figured out a backup in CF while I'm upgrading the bench and Gardner can still backup CF can't he ?

With all the Yankees injuries, he has played center and has overall positive defensive ratings.  Foot/back injuries scare me on outfielders.  I don't want to miss on free agents as we currently don't have the depth to overcome.  I consider him almost contingent on Grandal.  If you have Grandal's bat higher in lineup, Gardner could be in that 6-8 range.  If you don't get Grandal, you may have to gamble on more of an impact bat.  I encourage people to look at Gardner's numbers                                                                        https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gardnbr01.shtml.  He has been a lot more solid than I thought and I think his playoff experience, leadership, mentoring would also fit on our team.

Shoulders/backs scare me on pitchers which makes Wood less attractive unless really cheap.

[BamaDoc]

Re backup CF.  I still keep Leury on the team.  He made 1 million this year so I don't think he gets to big of a raise via arbitration.  His multi positional versatility has me keep him for another year or two.  Gotta teach him to have a better two strike approach or something to drop ks given his lack of power.  I might stick an outfielder glove on Mendick in spring training or send him to a winter league.  If I remember, Yolmer hurt his arm trying that so probably don't revisit if he is on the team (more expensive than Leury, no SS or CF ability).  

Gardner made 7.5 this year so I think he is affordable.

Edited September 30, 2019 by BamaDoc
added salary

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

With all the Yankees injuries, he has played center and has overall positive defensive ratings.  Foot/back injuries scare me on outfielders.  I don't want to miss on free agents as we currently don't have the depth to overcome.  I consider him almost contingent on Grandal.  If you have Grandal's bat higher in lineup, Gardner could be in that 6-8 range.  If you don't get Grandal, you may have to gamble on more of an impact bat.  I encourage people to look at Gardner's numbers                                                                        https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gardnbr01.shtml.  He has been a lot more solid than I thought and I think his playoff experience, leadership, mentoring would also fit on our team.

Shoulders/backs scare me on pitchers which makes Wood less attractive unless really cheap.

I did look just to see if he could still play CF and that seals it for me. He is a better option than Dickerson in fielding versatility and the power and OBP is  equal  .Dickerson OPS much higher and likely to be since that HR total for Gardner seems like an outlier but with the juicy ball maybe it isn't.  So yea I'm convinced since I've been preaching versatility . So goodbye Engel along with Yolmer and Leury too. Maybe they could be used in some minor trades. Maybe keep Engel in AAA if possible.

Edited September 30, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Bob Sacamano]

I would also be ok with the team carrying 7 relievers instead of 8 and having a 5-man bench (5-man benches like teams used to have).

Edited September 30, 2019 by soxfan2014

[BamaDoc]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I did look just to see if he could still play CF and that seals it for me. He is a better option than Dickerson in fielding versatility and the power and OBP .Dickerson OPS much higher and likely to be since that HR total for Gardner seems like an outlier but with the juicy ball maybe it isn't.is pretty equal  So yea I'm convinced since I've been preaching versatility . So goodbye Engel along with Yolmer and Leury too. Maybe they could be used in some minor trades.

Thanks, I researched a long time prior to posting my realistic plan thread.  I can't swear on it but in the 40 plus pages on the RF thread not sure anyone mentioned Gardner.  Heck if you want an injury returning flyer Lonnie Chisenhall or one year wonder Cameron Maybin might have risk/reward appeal if cheap enough but again I don't want to miss on free agents since we need them to hit to contend.  Why I considered consistency, health, OBP, and LH in my plan.

[BamaDoc]

3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I would also be ok with the team carrying 7 relievers instead of 8 and having a 5-man bench (5-man benches like teams used to have).

With Coop, we might be the only team who might do that since he likes starting pitchers going deeper.  League wide trends have starters going less and less innings necessitating more relievers.  It would also require a manager mixing and matching because if those guys just sit on the bench another reliever may provide more value.  Maybe free Yermin!  

[TheFutureIsNear]

1 hour ago, mqr said:

Too many good players is a problem I want to have

Sure, if it’s JD or nothing I’m not going to pass on him, but in general it’s not a great idea to paint yourself into a corner with too many guys that can only play 1B/DH.
Or if I thought JD would put us over the top into WS contention it would be another story. But we are still pretty far from that so I think overall roster building still needs to be kept in mind. Especially with older vets 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Sure, if it’s JD or nothing I’m not going to pass on him, but in general it’s not a great idea to paint yourself into a corner with too many guys that can only play 1B/DH.
Or if I thought JD would put us over the top into WS contention it would be another story. But we are still pretty far from that so I think overall roster building still needs to be kept in mind. Especially with older vets 

Can always trade later- either the prospect or veteran.

[Greg Hibbard]

Yolmer has got to be gone. I want Mendick instead. Leury makes a ton of sense as a super Util as we have one more year of control.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

What's a realistic cost for what it would take to get Schwarber and Q from the Cubs? 

Cease

[chitown87]

Jesus. HARD pass on trading for Schwarber, and especially for Q.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

I actually have a weird feeling (and have ZERO information to back this up) that they could trade Cease, similar to what they did with McCarthy back in the day, but not for those two. 

Does a Bummer/Steiver/Rutherford combo get it done? Does that zap too much depth from the Sox? I think Schwarber makes all the sense in the world for the Sox, and I think Q has a rebound on the Southside. 

It might get that done, not sure, but the bolded concerns me. The reason the Cubs would do such a deal is that even though it makes them worse on paper, it makes their bullpen better right now and saves them money to go after Cole. 

But, if Bummer is the White Sox's only reliable setup man, taking him out of the bullpen makes them worse, and we're taking on a Quintana who only has 1 year remaining on his current deal. 

[BackDoorBreach]

I'm really curious to see what teams are going to make certain players available.  Cubs are an obvious one as I almost certainly see them doing a shake up but there are going to be more.

[BackDoorBreach]

And I really hope they don't do something dumb like gamble away our prospects on bad players.  If they make a trade it has to be a lack of a risk(in before there's always risk).  Proven track record, healthy players, et cetera.  We don't have the depth in the minors to trade for a Mazara and just hope it clicks.

[fathom]

Sign: JDM, J. Castro, Wacha, Odorizzi, generic righty reliever

Trade for Mazara

[BamaDoc]

People keep talking about Wacha but he may never pitch again.

[Jose Abreu]

53 minutes ago, fathom said:

Cease

2 years of Schwarber and 1 year of Quintana for 6 years of Cease? I think you could get that trade done by packaging Stiever and Walker or something like that 

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

2 years of Schwarber and 1 year of Quintana for 6 years of Cease? I think you could get that trade done by packaging Stiever and Walker or something like that 

Which is why I don’t think the Cubs and Sox will trade together. Theo trading Q back to the Sox would require a huge overpay IMO

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Which is why I don’t think the Cubs and Sox will trade together. Theo trading Q back to the Sox would require a huge overpay IMO

A little different trading a guy with 3.5 years of control and a guy that has 1 year of control.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Sign: JDM, J. Castro, Wacha, Odorizzi, generic righty reliever

Trade for Mazara

Haven't heard Jason Castro's name thrown out there. Not a bad idea. Still not thrilled with JDM since he's a no go basically for any defensive purpose,

Gardner shouldn't be too expensive and provides depth in CF while he starts in RF and he's likely to hit as many HR's as Mazara while playing better defense. Mazara's upside HR total is higher but Gardner better D by far and also OBP .  Of course if Mazara breaks out with us he's a great choice but odds of that are low but I'd understand the gamble since you always look at upside, then you get nice pieces for him when he hits FA in 2 years.Gardner might even be a good influence on Eloy. Save some money from JDM if you want to explore the Grandal option or Moose for DH, backup at 1st or purely 1st base if Abreu can mostly shift to DH. But ABreu and Moose can split DH or however they can work it out. Moose can also provide a heck of a lot of depth at 3rd and 2nd base too. Starting pitcher still needs as close to a 1 or 2 that we can get. Not sure Ordorizzi or Wacha is that.

 

Lots and lots of ways they can go but always have to keep LH , power, OBP and, positional versatility and  defense in mind when discussing it all.

[BamaDoc]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Haven't heard Jason Castro's name thrown out there. Not a bad idea. Still not thrilled with JDM since he's a no go basically for any defensive purpose,

Gardner shouldn't be too expensive and provides depth in CF while he starts in RF and he's likely to hit as many HR's as Mazara while playing better defense. Mazara's upside HR total is higher but Gardner better D by far and also OBP .  Of course if Mazara breaks out with us he's a great choice but odds of that are low but I'd understand the gamble since you always look at upside, then you get nice pieces for him when he hits FA in 2 years.Gardner might even be a good influence on Eloy. Save some money from JDM if you want to explore the Grandal option or Moose for DH, backup at 1st or purely 1st base if Abreu can mostly shift to DH. But ABreu and Moose can split DH or however they can work it out. Moose can also provide a heck of a lot of depth at 3rd and 2nd base too. Starting pitcher still needs as close to a 1 or 2 that we can get. Not sure Ordorizzi or Wacha is that.

 

Lots and lots of ways they can go but always have to keep LH , power, OBP and, positional versatility and  defense in mind when discussing it all.

Preach on Brother!  +1 to ya

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Cease

Lol no way.  Quintana has minimal surplus value.  He's paid what he's worth.  I doubt the Cubs trade him, but if they did, they wouldn't get much.  The Cubs definitely aren't getting a top 20 type prospect for Schwarber.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Preach on Brother!  +1 to ya

Ha thanks . Sox need to gently nudge Abreu away from 1st base. That's why i like Moose to split DH/1st with him while still getting occasional starts at 3rd and 2nd. And when Moose doesn't start a big power option on the bench. It also eliminates the need for JDM and the cost associated with him and go after that 1 or 2 starter we need or Grandal. Then the 3 major expenditures are top of rotation SP and Grandal and then possibly a #4 starter like Odorizzi. Keep Lopez at 5 and Rodon and if possible Dunning could provide the BP with punch or at starter if someone is sucking.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ha thanks . Sox need to gently nudge Abreu away from 1st base. That's why i like Moose to split DH/1st with him while still getting occasional starts at 3rd and 2nd. And when Moose doesn't start a big power option on the bench. It also eliminates the need for JDM and the cost associated with him and go after that 1 or 2 starter we need or Grandal. Then the 3 major expenditures are top of rotation SP and Grandal and then possibly a #4 starter like Odorizzi. Keep Lopez at 5 and Rodon and if possible Dunning could provide the BP with punch or at starter if someone is sucking.

Well, one of the reasons lots of people have talked about Grandal is the idea that he would DH sometimes - it does seem like Moustakas and Grandal are competing for ABs there somewhere, not to mention that Collins basically becomes worthless in that setup.

That said, I'm generally a fan of the Moustakas concept.