Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
bmags

Would you trade for Mookie Betts, and what would you trade

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

Been there, done that.  As in 2005, when we ”caught lightning in a bottle for a year”.

It was a lovely experience FOR A YEAR, but 14 years later, and only ONE PLAYOFF WIN since, this team needs to stay the course and build towards a team capable of sustainable winning.  

Betts of course can help achieve that, but only if he’s here for longer than one year.  If that possibility is remote, than the Sox need to take a hard pass in trying to acquire him - especially at the elite prospect cost it would take.  

There's not enough talent right now for sustained winning and zero indication that any of the infrastructure in the development or scouting side of things even slightly exists enough to create a constant flow of assets available for call-up or trade. Even the Cubs with their godly farm system five years ago are now up on the rocks.

Need to come to grips with this reality guys. The fundamental changes that needed to happen in order to give the Sox sustained success are not going to happen. They suck at drafting and they suck at international free agency.

BUT they did nail the Q, Sale and Eaton trades and maybe those assets plus a little bit of luck plus Mookie Betts is enough to win it all or at least give us one hell of a season. I wouldn't expect much more than that.

Edited by 3500S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, 3500S said:

There's not enough talent right now for sustained winning and zero indication that any of the infrastructure in the development or scouting side of things even slightly exists enough to create a constant flow of assets available for call-up or trade. Even the Cubs with their godly farm system five years ago are now up on the rocks.

Need to come to grips with this reality guys. The fundamental changes that needed to happen in order to give the Sox sustained success are not going to happen. They suck at drafting and they suck at international free agency.

BUT they did nail the Q, Sale and Eaton trades and maybe those assets plus a little bit of luck plus Mookie Betts is enough to win it all or at least give us one hell of a season. I wouldn't expect much more than that.

Mods - I’d check if this poster is OneDog / Tommy Longo.  We already know he’s created new accounts in the past and this guy has the same exact posting style as the legendary troll Longo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look everyone wants to be the Cardinals or Astros (if they cant have the money of the Yankees or Dodgers)...the fact that the Sox have to settle for cyclical periods of competitiveness just means were like the rest of MLB. And until actual anti-tanking measures are taken and fielding a competitive team year-in-year-out goes back to being the best chance of winning it all... this is what the Sox have to settle for.

Lashing out at the front office or ownership over this fact is not what I'm trying to do. Its hard to be really good at drafting and international free agency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest problem with this whole thing is that the odds of getting past the Twins and Indians NEXT YEAR even with Betts are maybe 10%, and you can increase that to 25-50% if you add another $150-200 million in spending, mostly on the pitching side.

But if it doesn't work, you're suddenly and blows up in your face (just a couple of major pitching injuries), then you're COMPLETELY SCREWED for another half-decade.

We didn't wait patiently through these last 3+ years only to make a desperation Hail Mary play for relevance.

If you traded 2 of Madrigal/Vaughn/Cease, it would take FOREVER to recover.  We're talking about KC Royals 30 years...and the loss of the franchise extinction-level event.

Only an Ilitch-esque or Cuban "free spending" owner in Chicago would be able to save the franchise, and they would actually need to hire THE BEST front office/scouting/development people to pull it all off.

 

We're in the same division with a bunch of small and mid-market teams.

It's absolutely insane that we have to be considering something like this....even SOMEWHAT seriously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The biggest problem with this whole thing is that the odds of getting past the Twins and Indians NEXT YEAR even with Betts are maybe 10%, and you can increase that to 25-50% if you add another $150-200 million in spending, mostly on the pitching side.

But if it doesn't work, you're suddenly and blows up in your face (just a couple of major pitching injuries), then you're COMPLETELY SCREWED for another half-decade.

We didn't wait patiently through these last 3+ years only to make a desperation Hail Mary play for relevance.

If you traded 2 of Madrigal/Vaughn/Cease, it would take FOREVER to recover.  We're talking about KC Royals 30 years...and the loss of the franchise extinction-level event.

Only an Ilitch-esque or Cuban "free spending" owner in Chicago would be able to save the franchise, and they would actually need to hire THE BEST front office/scouting/development people to pull it all off.

 

We're in the same division with a bunch of small and mid-market teams.

It's absolutely insane that we have to be considering something like this....even SOMEWHAT seriously.

Those figures are crazy pessimistic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, 3500S said:

Those figures are crazy pessimistic.

It's not ONE team, it's still two.

The Indians won 93, we won twenty less than that.

Unless the Twins for some strange reason (with a youngish core) decided to blow everything up completely...and alienate all the season ticket holders in a relatively new stadium, they're going to be there again.  God knows what the Indians will do, but they're more likely to go for it again than tear things down.

I think you're putting WAY too much stock into Kopech making a big contribution next season.  He would have to be nearly an All-Star level performer, either him or Cease, for any of this to make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

It's not ONE team, it's still two.

The Indians won 93, we won twenty less than that.

Unless the Twins for some strange reason (with a youngish core) decided to blow everything up completely...and alienate all the season ticket holders in a relatively new stadium, they're going to be there again.  God knows what the Indians will do, but they're more likely to go for it again than tear things down.

I think you're putting WAY too much stock into Kopech making a big contribution next season.  He would have to be nearly an All-Star level performer, either him or Cease, for any of this to make sense.

You know the Twins went from 78 to 103 wins right? You act like its impossible when it very clearly isn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, 3500S said:

You know the Twins went from 78 to 103 wins right? You act like its impossible when it very clearly isn't.

As soon as Hahn shows he's capable of hitting on 75-85% of his FA signings, sure.

He hasn't even come close to that.

This type of logic goes back to 2004-05 and the "riverboat gambler" mentality of KW going for it each and every year at the rade deadline.

SURE, IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE.

But there are pretty much zero indicators this ownership/front office staff is capable of being the ones to pull it off, except for the once every 88 years hitting of the Power Ball by blind luck.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

It's not ONE team, it's still two.

The Indians won 93, we won twenty less than that.

Unless the Twins for some strange reason (with a youngish core) decided to blow everything up completely...and alienate all the season ticket holders in a relatively new stadium, they're going to be there again.  God knows what the Indians will do, but they're more likely to go for it again than tear things down.

I think you're putting WAY too much stock into Kopech making a big contribution next season.  He would have to be nearly an All-Star level performer, either him or Cease, for any of this to make sense.

There is no way the Twins sniff 100 wins next year in my opinion.  They are losing their 2nd best pitcher and had everything click for them this year.  

Cleveland still has positional issues even though that staff is top tier.  We will see.  I just don't see how the Sox have a worse record next year against the Twins and Indians.  Cleveland also went something around 15-1 against Detroit.  That won't happen again you never see anything like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

As soon as Hahn shows he's capable of hitting on 75-85% of his FA signings, sure.

He hasn't even come close to that.

This type of logic goes back to 2004-05 and the "riverboat gambler" mentality of KW going for it each and every year at the rade deadline.

SURE, IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE.

But there are pretty much zero indicators this ownership/front office staff is capable of being the ones to pull it off, except for the once every 88 years hitting of the Power Ball by blind luck.

 

Well  the reality is trying to sit back and develop this core while adorning it with Zach Wheeler-tier free agents is not going to get it done. We've done that before and it didn't work very well. The Sox are simply short on elite talent even if they hit on Kopech and Robert. Someone would need to come out of nowhere. I know we're all sick to death of thinking about Tatis Jr. but that move looms massively over everything because what the Sox need is just one more guy who can be a star and then you can start seeing this work.

I have zero faith anyone in the minors after Robert and Madrigal are called up can fulfill that potential. Maybe Vaughn but he would need to be extraordinary.

But when I'm presented with the option of perhaps trading that unknown commodity in Vaughn for a known commodity in Betts who just happens to be EXACTLY the player the Sox need...well even for one year I cant help but be all about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, 3500S said:

Well  the reality is trying to sit back and develop this core while adorning it with Zach Wheeler-tier free agents is not going to get it done. We've done that before and it didn't work very well. The Sox are simply short on elite talent even if they hit on Kopech and Robert. Someone would need to come out of nowhere. I know we're all sick to death of thinking about Tatis Jr. but that move looms massively over everything because what the Sox need is just one more guy who can be a star and then you can start seeing this work.

I have zero faith anyone in the minors after Robert and Madrigal are called up can fulfill that potential. Maybe Vaughn but he would need to be extraordinary.

But when I'm presented with the option of perhaps trading that unknown commodity in Vaughn for a known commodity in Betts who just happens to be EXACTLY the player the Sox need...well even for one year I cant help but be all about it.

We would be on a ten year rebuild without Sale, Eaton and Q.

That much is obvious.

As it stands now, after we graduate those 3 players in the next calendar year, we might be all the way down in the mid 20's in terms of farm system rankings heading into the 2020-21 offseason.

If we keep Vaughn in the minors and make an amazing pick at #11, we're around 18-22nd.   I guess Stiever or one of the low minor league hurlers could put together a Daniel Hudson/Brandon McCarthy ascent, but that hasn't happened for ages.  Hansen was the closest, and he just basically imploded after early success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, 3500S said:

Vaughn, Stiever, Walker + something from A-ball. Those are you three most valuable minor leaguers after Madrigal and Robert.

Under no circumstances include Robert or Kopech (Eloy, Giolito and Moncada go without saying).

If push comes to shove I'd include Madrigal or Cease + Vaughn.

One year rentals are taboo.  Not what a rebuild is about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The rebuild is over. It's go time.

In your somewhat short time here, I pretty much have disagreed with all of what you said. 

I couldn't agree more with this. :) 

I'm not saying the Sox are going to win the World Series next season, but there were too many good performances last season, and too much payroll open for them not to have a very aggressive offseason, and start to open the window in 2020. It's time. Rebuild time is over. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The rebuild is over. It's go time.

If you're trading for Betts, he has to re-sign.  This year isn't the year a one year rental gets us over the hill.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Betts has told everyone listening they he would not sign an extension except with JR. 😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

If you're trading for Betts, he has to re-sign.  This year isn't the year a one year rental gets us over the hill.  

You won't get that guarantee from him no matter where he goes. That's why he's even available. Even compared to Harper, Betts is a tier above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, 3500S said:

You won't get that guarantee from him no matter where he goes. That's why he's even available. Even compared to Harper, Betts is a tier above.

Then that's a big, fat "no."

Even if Betts was willing to sign for like 10/375 or whatever the heck it'd be, I'm not a fan of the Sox allocating $30M+ per year for a decade to a single player. Teams like the Yankees and Dodgers can do this without hamstringing themselves because their ownership is willing/able to shell out $200M+ per year in payroll. Until the Sox are able to do that, I'm a hard pass on massive-contract guys like Betts, Harper, and Machado.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Black_Jack29 said:

Then that's a big, fat "no."

Even if Betts was willing to sign for like 10/375 or whatever the heck it'd be, I'm not a fan of the Sox allocating $30M+ per year for a decade to a single player. Teams like the Yankees and Dodgers can do this without hamstringing themselves because their ownership is willing/able to shell out $200M+ per year in payroll. Until the Sox are able to do that, I'm a hard pass on massive-contract guys like Betts, Harper, and Machado.

You do realize that Moncada is likely to be that guy too, right? You willing to pass on him? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You do realize that Moncada is likely to be that guy too, right? You willing to pass on him? 

I absolutely expect the Sox to let Moncada walk as a FA in 2024, and I have no problem with that. We're getting him in the prime of his career for a relative bargain. Somebody else can pay him $45M per year when he's 37 and 38 years old.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Logically, the Astros need to trade/dump Josh Reddick to open up a spot for Kyle Tucker.

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea if they miss every other target for RF. Should be a salary dump as you said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Logically, the Astros need to trade/dump Josh Reddick to open up a spot for Kyle Tucker.

 

As he should be.  33 year old next year coming off an 89 ops+ in a great lineup.  Seems like a real risk of John Jay repeat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Timmy U said:

As he should be.  33 year old next year coming off an 89 ops+ in a great lineup.  Seems like a real risk of John Jay repeat.

Well, yeah...you can argue Dickerson, Avi, Puig, Calhoun, Nimmo or Polanco TIL you’re blue in the face, but there aren’t any guarantees attached to anyone.

Coming from an AL career, the risk is somewhat mitigated...and he can at least handle the position competently.  Marisnick would be another, cheaper option to acquire for filling the spot one season.  And really improve the defense markedly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×