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Would you trade for Mookie Betts, and what would you trade

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18 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

If we trade with Boston I don't think you'd have to give up top prospects for him. They want to unload his salary and would probably take a few mid level prospects for him, especially as a rental. If Hahn can make some big signings for pitching and a DH this offseason I wouldn't be opposed to that. 

That is not the word in the Boston media. The thinking  is they want to drop  about $20 MIL which they will get w Porcello. The question is do they keep Betts  and make another run at the playoffs and take their chances he resigns. Or trade him  and get a good return.  Obviously JDM plays into that as well since it would be harder to make the playoffs if he leaves. Their new GM has his work cut out for him. 

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28 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

If we trade with Boston I don't think you'd have to give up top prospects for him. They want to unload his salary and would probably take a few mid level prospects for him, especially as a rental. If Hahn can make some big signings for pitching and a DH this offseason I wouldn't be opposed to that. 

I'm not so sure about that. I'd expect at least one top-100 prospect.

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By the way the answer to the thread title is No and Nothing. Just wait a year and go after him when all it costs is money and a 2nd round pick. 

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4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

By the way the answer to the thread title is No and Nothing. Just wait a year and go after him when all it costs is money and a 2nd round pick. 

That's what we were saying about Arenado too... And Blackmon.. 

It's rare that a player of their caliber actually makes it to free agency.  That's why the Harper and Machado fiasco took place... It just doesn't simply happen.

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Just now, cjgalloway said:

That's what we were saying about Arenado too... And Blackmon.. 

It's rare that a player of their caliber actually makes it to free agency.  That's why the Harper and Machado fiasco took place... It just doesn't simply happen.

If you listen to reports out of Boston it's quite likely. I also don't trust the Sox to pay what it takes to get him locked up. 

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5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If you listen to reports out of Boston it's quite likely. I also don't trust the Sox to pay what it takes to get him locked up. 

Not if they trade him.

 

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Not if they trade him.

 

Yeah if they end up trading him someone's going to pay. I'd imagine any deal this winter includes a 72 hour window to lock him up, so Boston can maximize return. In that case, it would cost Robert+ so hard pass. That's not efficient spending at all. I'd rather take the chance that he hits the open market next year. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah if they end up trading him someone's going to pay. I'd imagine any deal this winter includes a 72 hour window to lock him up, so Boston can maximize return. In that case, it would cost Robert+ so hard pass. That's not efficient spending at all. I'd rather take the chance that he hits the open market next year. 

Unless Boston is picking up the cost, a team getting a 72 hour negotiation window that the player has to play ball for, and the team has no control over, is not going to be valued at a top 5 prospect.

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

Unless Boston is picking up the cost, a team getting a 72 hour negotiation window that the player has to play ball for, and the team has no control over, is not going to be valued at a top 5 prospect.

Boston has no reason whatsoever to give a team a 72 hour negotiation/return window unless they're getting a huge return for him. They shouldn't do so.

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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Boston has no reason whatsoever to give a team a 72 hour negotiation/return window unless they're getting a huge return for him. They shouldn't do so.

Also no reason to think Betts would even sign an extension with us. He's pretty much declined to talk extension with the Red Sox, a team that drafted him and hes played his entire career for.

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1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

Also no reason to think Betts would even sign an extension with us. He's pretty much declined to talk extension with the Red Sox, a team that drafted him and hes played his entire career for.

I believe the person I was replying to, earlier in this thread, suggested that if you put a deal on paper that beats Trout's deal...$440 million+, maybe that gets around that issue. He might be right; make the money insane enough that he can't turn it down.

Are we willing to give up a top prospect and overpay by $50-$100 million? I'm not, but that's where we've gotten to.

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2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah if they end up trading him someone's going to pay. I'd imagine any deal this winter includes a 72 hour window to lock him up, so Boston can maximize return. In that case, it would cost Robert+ so hard pass. That's not efficient spending at all. I'd rather take the chance that he hits the open market next year. 

There is no planet where 1 year of Mookie Betts is going to cost a Luis Robert. 

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16 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

There is no planet where 1 year of Mookie Betts is going to cost a Luis Robert. 

With an already agreed upon extension as a condition to make a deal? Yeah that planet exists. 

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4 hours ago, bmags said:

If last year was an anomaly in Hahns tenure I wouldn't mention it, but that type of return has been all too common (despite even striking gold with McCann).

I understand that concern but I just don't see any other option. If the Sox were in a position of strength I'm not even sure I could run with your idea then either.

There are plenty of decent names out there  who should perform as they always do barring injury. Of course the trick always is do you get them and if you don't what's plan B ? Do you settle for someone like Avi in RF ?

I'll toot my own horn. I was one of very few who recommended resigning Avi after he was non tendered. Turns out one of the smartest organizations in baseball agreed with me and got good value for the money and now he gets a chance to play in the playoffs . I really want to see him do well.

Now I haven't been tooting the Avi horn again since I prefer Gardner/Dickerson more but I'm just recommending the Sox concentrate on kicking some ass early in the process with good offers and then get on a roll showing the late signers/stragglers that they mean business. A lot of these guys are Boras clients so I can't say how effective that will be  but they have to show everyone they will spend the money by making a flashy early signing if possible.

I mean if your plan was to get everyone started thinking big so you don't have to look at so many posters saying Cole etc. are pipe dreams more power to you. Think big.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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7 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

If we trade with Boston I don't think you'd have to give up top prospects for him. They want to unload his salary and would probably take a few mid level prospects for him, especially as a rental. If Hahn can make some big signings for pitching and a DH this offseason I wouldn't be opposed to that. 

Whenever fans talk about acquiring an elite type player...some fans offer the thought that they can always be flipped down the road.  What we are currently discussing is that Betts is elite but none of us want to give up anything of substance to acquire him with only one year of control.  If we can't extend our future stars...we better be prepared to trade them with a couple years of control left.

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2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Whenever fans talk about acquiring an elite type player...some fans offer the thought that they can always be flipped down the road.  What we are currently discussing is that Betts is elite but none of us want to give up anything of substance to acquire him with only one year of control.  If we can't extend our future stars...we better be prepared to trade them with a couple years of control left.

If one of our guys insists they're going to free agency then yes, that's a decision you will have to make.

If we look like a competitive roster the year someone is a free agent, then perhaps you gamble on them just walking after you make your run.

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22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If one of our guys insists they're going to free agency then yes, that's a decision you will have to make.

If we look like a competitive roster the year someone is a free agent, then perhaps you gamble on them just walking after you make your run.

That's what I'm a concerned about with Moncada. He has $31.5M in the bank already before even reaching arbitration. Same with Robert and Giolito. You go to Moncada and Giolito this offseason and next offseason with an extension and if either or both turn it down, you start listening. None of them are hurting for money so it depends on if they want to be a part of this or not. 

I'm glad someone is on the same page as me on this. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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22 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That's what I'm a concerned about with Moncada. He has $31.5M in the bank already before even reaching arbitration. Same with Robert and Giolito. You go to Moncada and Giolito this offseason and next offseason with an extension and if either or both turn it down, you start listening. None of them are hurting for money so it depends on if they want to be a part of this or not. 

I'm glad someone is on the same page as me on this. 

If we're not able to be a competitive team in 2022/2023, well at the very least hopefully we've got a new coach and GM making decisions by then.

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In a perfect world, we sign a Wheeler/Stras type to a long term deal this off season, then Rich Hill/Alex Wood type to a 1+1 deal, and Calhoun and Gardner to 1 year deals and make the playoffs. Next offseason we sign Betts outright and give this one of the best offenses in the league (it would be extreme RHH, but who the hell cares).

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22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If we're not able to be a competitive team in 2022/2023, well at the very least hopefully we've got a new coach and GM making decisions by then.

I think that this should be done regardless of whether or not they are competing. If they end up taking a step back, so be it. You can never let a star player walk for nothing. 

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15 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Boston has no reason whatsoever to give a team a 72 hour negotiation/return window unless they're getting a huge return for him. They shouldn't do so.

That's nonsense, there is no deadline here this offseason. They only need to have a greater return if the window is provided and contract accepted to consider. If Boston has judged that they cannot re-sign betts at the number they have in mind, they only need to worry about maximizing the return. If the player gets returned they can just return to negotiating deals not contingent on a new deal and they'll be in the same spot they were. Teams are only going to pay what they value Betts at 1 year for anyway.

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14 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I understand that concern but I just don't see any other option. If the Sox were in a position of strength I'm not even sure I could run with your idea then either.

There are plenty of decent names out there  who should perform as they always do barring injury. Of course the trick always is do you get them and if you don't what's plan B ? Do you settle for someone like Avi in RF ?

I'll toot my own horn. I was one of very few who recommended resigning Avi after he was non tendered. Turns out one of the smartest organizations in baseball agreed with me and got good value for the money and now he gets a chance to play in the playoffs . I really want to see him do well.

Now I haven't been tooting the Avi horn again since I prefer Gardner/Dickerson more but I'm just recommending the Sox concentrate on kicking some ass early in the process with good offers and then get on a roll showing the late signers/stragglers that they mean business. A lot of these guys are Boras clients so I can't say how effective that will be  but they have to show everyone they will spend the money by making a flashy early signing if possible.

I mean if your plan was to get everyone started thinking big so you don't have to look at so many posters saying Cole etc. are pipe dreams more power to you. Think big.

Fair enough. I really did not imagine the rebuild needed to be done so that we'd have to play the same "gamble this cheap/oft-injured/volatile will emerge rather than going after top players" game we played for most of the decade.

Say we signed or kept avi...would any of us feel great about him in RF for the future? We'd be in essentially the same place as I doubt he'd have received greater than a 1 year deal. 

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18 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

If we trade with Boston I don't think you'd have to give up top prospects for him. They want to unload his salary and would probably take a few mid level prospects for him, especially as a rental. If Hahn can make some big signings for pitching and a DH this offseason I wouldn't be opposed to that. 

Someone who is closer to contention than the Sox are going to give up more than "a few mid level prospects" for Mookie Betts.

This whole conversation is insane.  The sox are not a fit for Mookie.  Revisit after 2020 and sign him for nothing but money if it makes sense at that point. 

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17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Someone who is closer to contention than the Sox are going to give up more than "a few mid level prospects" for Mookie Betts.

This whole conversation is insane.  The sox are not a fit for Mookie.  Revisit after 2020 and sign him for nothing but money if it makes sense at that point. 

If you plan on signing him next year, why not pay prospects to also get him this year when the white sox fan base is also planning on contending (just with perpetual playoffs-appearer Cole Kalhoun as our magic wand to improve 20 games)

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48 minutes ago, bmags said:

That's nonsense, there is no deadline here this offseason. They only need to have a greater return if the window is provided and contract accepted to consider. If Boston has judged that they cannot re-sign betts at the number they have in mind, they only need to worry about maximizing the return. If the player gets returned they can just return to negotiating deals not contingent on a new deal and they'll be in the same spot they were. Teams are only going to pay what they value Betts at 1 year for anyway.

That is absolutely not nonsense. Boston has Mookie Betts as a star and they're in the business of developing and signing stars. They know teams will struggle to re-sign Betts if he's determined to hit the free agent market. The last thing Boston wants is for it to become public that they were willing to trade Betts to another team, then have Betts slink back to the Red Sox if the other team doesn't make a deal. Aside from Betts getting injured, that is virtually the worst case scenario; they've angered Betts, burnt a trade bridge, undermined their own business model, and they might be even put in a situation where they face a trade request that forces them to move him before the season starts. The only circumstance where Boston should allow that 72 hour return window is if the deal they're getting is a dramatic overpay. If I've got a chance that I'll get Luis Robert back in return for Betts, you're darn right I'll give a 72 hour window because that's a great return for him. For Nick Madrigal? Nah, either you take Betts and figure it out later or we don't have a deal.

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