Nardiwashere Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Jerry has a smart ass/New York sense of humor that is always being taken out of context. I don't blame him for never doing interviews. This "controversy" reminds me of these scenes in My Cousin Vinny.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I cannot say that. I would have to follow every team in a lot of sports so I can't use that broad stroke on my canvas . I just know it's rather pointless to criticize fans in any way. When they blast the fans it is the loyal ones who hear about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: This actually fits Reinsdorf's MO if you think about it. You can't say "TIFWIW" and then grill people if they take it for bullshit 4 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: The evidence is there. It's overwhelming. Just look at the last two and a half decades of White Sox baseball and it's clear as day. It puts all of the absurdity and madness into context. Everything makes sense now that didn't before. The Sox haven't been finishing in second often. They've been finishing in 3rd, 4th and 5th, so no the last 25 years is not clear as day 3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: If you look at player acquisitions and trades over the last 25 years, it's fairly obvious to me that he's actively aiming for 2nd place. It makes waay too much sense. What? Every year before the rebuild fans were excited about trades and FA pickups. Samardzija? Excited. Robertson and Melky? Excited. Keppinger? Woo hoo. In hindsight it's bad but those moves were praised at the time 4 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Regardless, it fits his modus operandi. White Sox decision making has an entirely new context when taking this info into account, and it makes a lot of sense that this is true. This is being a worse owner than being just super cheap and being bad every year. He's stringing us along. It doesn't fit "being bad" because second place isn't "bad" 3 hours ago, The Sir said: I read something about a prominent person on the autistic spectrum the other day, and it mentioned how one quirk of theirs is that they have rigid adherence to their favored ideas. I see this with Jack all the time. Nothing can talk him down from an idea once he believes it to be true. If not sooner, he'll definitely apologize for such an outburst by next April and then when someone reminds him of it, he'll say "I already said I was way out of line with that. I have autism and sometimes this happens." It's too easy. Edited October 5, 2019 by soxfan49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Dude I'm a Sox fan- why would I want to believe this??? This basically rules out winning. I believe it.....if you look at the Sox behavior from 1995-2012.......if the shoe fits... This just sucks. I've always believed in tempering expectations, but now I have none whatsoever. You never do. 2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: There's literally no reason to believe this isn't true. They had multiple opportunities from 2000-2008 to put the team over the top and win more than one title and they never did it. That's your argument, that some schmuck said this and they've been unsuccessful so it must be right? So every franchise who hasn't been successful over the last 3 decades is intentionally sabotaging? 3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: I don't know why you think this is nuts. It makes so much sense actually. It's confusing to me why everyone doesn't believe this unless they are just in denial. I don't want to believe it either, but the evidence is overwhelming. Yeah because the guy who said it is 1) extremely credible and 2) cited a great source when he said it, right? So that makes the evidence overwhelming? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: There is no FO that treats its customers like that in sports other than the Sox. I don't get why they feel the need to insult the fanbase to the media. You mean like when Nagy and Jackson chastised the fans for booing the team at home and said they should always cheer for the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Reinsdorf would certainly be a perfect go-to guy for advice on how to build a 4th place team, after what we’ve witnessed during this past dreadful decade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 The timing on this article is unreal with the feud we were having with Ray Ray in another thread. Perception of cheapness is what I was saying...and boy does this article echo that. It may not be fully true, but if enough people believe it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, ptatc said: You mean like when Nagy and Jackson chastised the fans for booing the team at home and said they should always cheer for the team? And what Sox fan is unfamiliar with Lee Elia? C’mon now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 40 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: What? Every year before the rebuild fans were excited about trades and FA pickups. Samardzija? Excited. Robertson and Melky? Excited. Keppinger? Woo hoo. In hindsight it's bad but those moves were praised at the time. I was pretty ambivalent about Keppinger (but didn’t think he would totally flunk out of baseball) but man, I was excited about Melky. I still remember being in a great mood that morning at church because I had just read the news. I don’t blame JR for him being so blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Nardiwashere said: Jerry has a smart ass/New York sense of humor that is always being taken out of context. I don't blame him for never doing interviews. This "controversy" reminds me of these scenes in My Cousin Vinny.... Like any other public person, Jerry Reinsdorf has been unfairly treated by the media at times. In some ways, the media has kissed up to him. Regerdless, some of his troubles are of his own making. He is not always taken out context. Other than that, I have seen few examples of a sense of humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 31 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said: Reinsdorf would certainly be a perfect go-to guy for advice on how to build a 4th place team, after what we’ve witnessed during this past dreadful decade. lol you stole my joke. So, where's all the 2nd place teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, wegner said: So does the premise of this thread mean the Sox are going after Cole or not? 😎 I think that we as Sox fans should rid this thought now, as to avoid the certain disappointment when the Sox offer Cole 3/33 with $999,999,999 in incentives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: lol you stole my joke. So, where's all the 2nd place teams? catch up boys. I posted this joke over 90 minutes ago. Edited October 5, 2019 by Charlie Haeger's Knuckles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said: I think that we as Sox fans should rid this thought now, as to avoid the certain disappointment when the Sox offer Cole 3/33 with $999,999,999 in incentives. Followed by a quote from Kenny that the Sox actually made the best offer if you include all the incentives 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, soxfan49 said: You never do. That's your argument, that some schmuck said this and they've been unsuccessful so it must be right? So every franchise who hasn't been successful over the last 3 decades is intentionally sabotaging? Yeah because the guy who said it is 1) extremely credible and 2) cited a great source when he said it, right? So that makes the evidence overwhelming? The overwhelming evidence is 2000-2008. They had multiple opportunities to put those teams over the top and never did it. Idk how old you are, but what they did to the 2003 team was quite frankly intentional sabotage. With the exception of 05-06, they were always a couple pitchers or bats short, and continually refused to plug holes. 2001-04 was the poster child for this behavior. They never went into the season without glaring weaknesses, and always seemed to win 81-88 games. They were always just good enough to fall short. The evidence isn't in the reporting, but the behavior of the team over the 2000s and into the early 2010s before it all crashed in 2013. Their 2014-15 offseason is more evidence that this is what they planned to do, but it didn't work as well as they had hoped. This entire century through 2016 is enough evidence for you to be convinced. It's not only about what was said. It's about what was said AND what they did from 2000-2016. That combination should be enough to convince everyone. Actually it's more about the fact that what they did always made no sense until you hear this quote. Then it makes a lot more sense. How the Sox ran the team from 2000-2016 backs up this quote. If how they ran the team didn't back this up, I probably would be as dismissive as you guys are of the quote. But how the team has been run for the better part of two decades backs it up. A lot of illogical decisions they made suddenly become logical. Maybe there just aren't enough people who truly remember 2001-04 like I do. I'm sure everyone remembers 2011-12, and 15-16 and that fits the bill as well. Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 This topic got me wondering about 2nd place finishes for the White Sox and I looked back in the 1950's. In 154 game seasons, the Sox won 94 games in 1954...91 games in 1955...85 games in 1956...90 games in 1957...82 games in 1958 They won 94 games in 1959 to make it to the World Series. Since I was not born until the mid 1960's, I wonder what it felt like to root for teams that were good enough to win quite a few games but always fall short of the Yankees and Indians mostly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tony said: If you truly believe Jerry doesn’t care about winning, aims to come in the 2nd place, and you’re still one of the most active posters here......then jokes on you. I didn't believe that until today. I mostly believed what CWS and The Sir believed, that JR wouldn't go into the red for a season or two and that he had to at least come out slightly ahead, as well as being incredibly risk-averse with contracts. Now, I'm not so sure. I don't want to believe this is true. Reinsdorf had to release a statement denying that he ever said this, and that he actually wants to win. Take that for what it's worth. Even if it is true, it isn't like he'd publicly admit it. Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, wegner said: This topic got me wondering about 2nd place finishes for the White Sox and I looked back in the 1950's. In 154 game seasons, the Sox won 94 games in 1954...91 games in 1955...85 games in 1956...90 games in 1957...82 games in 1958 They won 94 games in 1959 to make it to the World Series. Since I was not born until the mid 1960's, I wonder what it felt like to root for teams that were good enough to win quite a few games but always fall short of the Yankees and Indians mostly? It was quite frustrating. The White Sox had winning teams from 1951-67, but never had superstars. The Mantles and Killerbrews were on other teams. And Comiskey Park was big and expansive and not a homer hitters park, and the team never really was explosive. Finally, things bottomed out when they lost the last five games during a heated 1967 pennant race because their offense was exposed for what it was-terrible. Even though the 1967 team contended, it was labeled as "boring." They lost the first 10 in 1968 and it has been a Cubs town ever since. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tony said: My statement doesn’t change. If you believe the owner has no desire to win...you should have no desire to actively root for this franchise. It’s fairly cut and dry. I 100% believed that the owner wanted to win until today. Then suddenly things have changed. I'm not 100% on the dark side yet but I'm considering it because the way they ran the Sox for the better part of two decades backs up what that guy from the Marlins said. I don't know what to think right now. This is a plausible accusation. I think I'm going to wait it out over the next few years and make Jerry prove this guy wrong. Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tony said: Except it won’t change anything, and you’ll still be here daily discussing White Sox baseball. I 100% guarantee it. Which is fine by the way, I’m not saying you should leave. But the point is, if you truly believe this report, there would be no reason to be a fan of a franchise where the owner has no desire to win. So then why spend your time on something like that? Because maybe I'm not so negative and I'm willing to give JR the benefit of the doubt for the time being. The guy who said this is a known scumbag, so it's possible that he's talking out of his ass. I'm not waiting forever. I'm giving him a couple more offseasons to prove this guy wrong. Who knows? Maybe this will motivate JR to open his wallet for once. I won't deny that it was an extremely plausible accusation. I left the Hawks for 7 years when Dollar Bill traded Roenick and Belfour, I've done it before and I'm not afraid to do it again. If I leave, I'll be back when ownership changes hands. Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tony said: Except it won’t change anything, and you’ll still be here daily discussing White Sox baseball. I 100% guarantee it. Yep, because it’s 2019 and we all need to complain loudly about something, no matter how trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 I've talked about this before, I have mixed feelings about Reinsdorf as an owner. As a fan, I can't stand some of the stuff he does, but I appreciate that he treats his employees very well. We need more of that in all workplaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 55 minutes ago, wegner said: Followed by a quote from Kenny that the Sox actually made the best offer if you include all the incentives 😁 All Cole had to do was 1. Average 400 innings per year. 2. Be active for 162 games per year that are played in Chicago. 3. Win 5 CY Youngs in the next 3 seasons. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Black_Jack29 said: Jerry Reinsdorf is 83 years old and still runs the day-to-day operations. Why in the hell would he bother to do that if his interest was limited to putting an 85-win team on the field to maximize profits? If he wasn’t interested in winning, he’d sell the franchise for hundreds of millions in profits tomorrow, or hire an executive to run the day-to-day operations while he drinks pina coladas on the beach in Miami. Probably because some people like to think the worse of people. Jerry seems like a very loyal and caring boss...probably to a fault when dumping a poor performer or two. I imagine there are more knowledgeable baseball people that he could have surrounded himself with but feels comfortable with KW and RH as people he trusts and why not...he owns the club. JR has always struck me as prudent rather than cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, poppysox said: Probably because some people like to think the worse of people. Jerry seems like a very loyal and caring boss...probably to a fault when dumping a poor performer or two. I imagine there are more knowledgeable baseball people that he could have surrounded himself with but feels comfortable with KW and RH as people he trusts and why not...he owns the club. JR has always struck me as prudent rather than cheap. I'm with ya about this. I mean, this does seem a little out of character. However, it is somewhat plausible when you have to compete withe the Yankees and Red Sox just to get to the World Series. I posted this thread because I thought the accusation should be discussed, and its plausibility. Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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