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Jack Parkman

Rumor: Reinsdorf aims to build second place teams

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On 10/5/2019 at 6:04 PM, Jack Parkman said:

I think Reinsdorf just got exposed here and a lot of you are in denial. If you look at the evidence objectively it points to this. Use your brain people.

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If the plan is to build 2nd place teams, then we've done a sh*tty job of it.

The Sox haven't finished in 2nd place since 2012. Only twice in the last decade. 

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On 10/8/2019 at 6:56 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

This narrative is ridiculous, the Sox did NOT rebuild for financial reasons.  I don’t care how much some of you hate Jerry (and I’m not a fan of him myself), the purpose of the rebuild was 100% well intentioned with the ultimate goal of becoming a sustainable winner long-term.  There is no conspiracy theory here.

Give me a friggin break. 

This man has own the Sox for 38 years and has exactly 5 playoff appearances to show for it.

With his ever-changing metrics we've been in a perpetual state of rebuilding since he took the keys from Veeck.

Meanwhile he and that cabal continue to laugh at us all the way to the bank.   

Hell yeah he said it.

Ironically, Reinsdorf  stopped trying to follow his own advice years ago. The Chicago American League Ballclub Inc is exactly where he wants them to the glee of his investor$.

And he must in absolute heaven over the charade he has going at the UC. 

 

Edited by GradMc
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On 10/8/2019 at 12:04 PM, bubba phillips said:

What a ridiculously over the top comment.  To compare a lifelong loyalty towards a baseball team to a drug or alcohol addiction is beyond belief. The Sox ARE a part of my life, but a small part compared to other more important things. 

If you want to associate something to an addiction, how about some on this board who waste countless hours speculating on topics like proposed trades, free agent signings, and other meaningless threads.

Good point...it can be addictive.  Even more so when doing interesting things like this off season.

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On 10/11/2019 at 5:53 PM, GradMc said:

Give me a friggin break. 

This man has own the Sox for 38 years and has exactly 5 playoff appearances to show for it.

With his ever-changing metrics we've been in a perpetual state of rebuilding since he took the keys from Veeck.

Meanwhile he and that cabal continue to laugh at us all the way to the bank.   

Hell yeah he said it.

Ironically, Reinsdorf  stopped trying to follow his own advice years ago. The Chicago American League Ballclub Inc is exactly where he wants them to the glee of his investor$.

And he must in absolute heaven over the charade he has going at the UC. 

 

What will happen in the next couple of years will demonstrate how serious this team is about building a sustainable winner. It really starts with this offseason. If the FO makes some lukewarm moves, that will say a lot. If the franchise wants credibility, it will have to earn it.

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On 10/8/2019 at 8:43 AM, NWINFan said:

Right now I don't care what Jerry Reinsdorf said or didn't say. At this moment, the White Sox are nowhere near the level of Astros, Yankees, Dodgers, and Braves. The real question is will the Sox ever get there? The ball is in Reinsdorf's court. Steve Stone and the Chicago sports media can spin things all they want, but actions really matters.  Does he want a winning team or an also ran?

Well if the results of his 38 year tenure as placeholder isn't enough of a "sample size" to answer that question for folks, nothing is.

P.T. Barnum 2.0's staunch (and lordy are they staunch) apologists and sycophants just can"t get passed that reality.

No one is ever going to accuse him of having built a MLB juggernaut. I've seen Halley's Comet more than I seen the Sox even in September contention for post-season play.  

For whatever reason, the White Sox since their incorporation have just not been blessed with great ownership. 

Their success has come despite ownership.

Bo Jackson has commented the 93 White Sox were just a couple of players short; insinuating that team could have gone to the Series with a little more help.

They also seem to historically come up short - perhaps more by design than I would have ever imagined.    

And it isn't just about 200 million dollar payrolls - obviously. 

It"s a culture of pursuing excellence.

The White Sox should be among the desired destinations for elite free agent difference makers.

It isn"t.

We should assume and frankly expect the major market White Sox will be in September contention from year to year.

And I said CONTENTION.

Barnum 2.0 should be able to at least carrot string us along that friggin far.

Who knows what may happen after that ?

Look no further than the Dodgers-Nats Division Series.

 

 

 

Edited by GradMc

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1 hour ago, GradMc said:

 

For whatever reason, the White Sox since their incorporation have just not been blessed with great ownership. 

 

 

 

 

It would be great if for once the White Sox were owned by a biilionaire whose sole purpose in purchasing the team is to build the best team that he possibly can. Someone like a  Mark Cuban.

We, as fans, don't need someone sitting on a stool wearing a visor and making entries in his ledger to make sure that the shareowners are getting maximum return on their investment. 

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7 hours ago, bubba phillips said:

It would be great if for once the White Sox were owned by a biilionaire whose sole purpose in purchasing the team is to build the best team that he possibly can. Someone like a  Mark Cuban.

We, as fans, don't need someone sitting on a stool wearing a visor and making entries in his ledger to make sure that the shareowners are getting maximum return on their investment. 

What you're missing from this point is that Mark Cuban has gotten a huge return on his investment in the Mavericks. He took them from a 10 year playoff drought into a team that made the playoffs 14 times in 15 years, with a title. A stadium that wasn't full to a stadium full every night, with high priced tickets. A much better TV package. He has a little fun with his persona on the sidelines, but he ran that as an effective business. He brought in good people like Carlisle and Nelson, he brought in good marketing people, he brought in professional front office people, and even if he gets to party a little bit on gameday, for the most part they're professional outside of that. He has to deal with the occasional issue (Harassment) like most franchises will, but by the fact that they did prioritize winning - it maximized return on their investment. 

As we've said in other parts of this thread...the White Sox are happy to win, but only if they are winning the way Reinsdorf wants. If winning is one of those things that, like the Mavericks, builds shareholder value - the White Sox are willing to sacrifice that in order to keep the guys they like hanging out in the front office.

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10 hours ago, GradMc said:

Well if the results of his 38 year tenure as placeholder isn't enough of a "sample size" to answer that question for folks, nothing is.

 

 

You could have stopped there. Jerry has been a horrific owner, no doubt about it. I'm personally grateful for the one WS. Not to be an ingrate, but in 38 years in a city as big as Chicago, you would expect at least one WS title. As a matter of fact, without that WS appearance Reinsdorf would be considered one of the worst baseball owners in history. He got it however and that's a shining star on his baseball resume. Still five playoffs in 38 years? Cmon that is wretched.

Also I know The Cell is OK and has been OK, but it's not as if Jerry has us playing in a palace like Old Comiskey. I know the Sox needed modern locker rooms and training facilities and needed a new stadium, but frankly Jerry's ownership group kind of got us a stadium that rates a 'blah' on the blah-wow specrtum. Old Comiskey was a WOW when it was full.

In short, Jerry's has been an awful ownership group. Fans have been very good to him. Our crowds in the Cell have been pretty darn good year to year considering the product.

I wish he'd sell now.

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37 minutes ago, greg775 said:

 

I wish he'd sell now.

Don't even bother saying this, because he won't sell. The most frustrating thing about all of this is that most fans have known full well that the White Sox have needed to change, but we have seen the same tired old faces hang around and we get the same results. Okay, I understand the idea behind a rebuild. But what makes this rebuild different than the various other ones that have happened during the last half century? Why should we really think this particular rebuild is  going to work? Have people grown smarter? Are they adjusting to the way the game is changing? Is merely loading up on young talent going to lead to real winning? To tell you the truth, I'm sick of the losing and the empty promises. That much I know for sure.

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On 10/8/2019 at 4:29 PM, pcq said:

I wanna talk about Betts coming here and that second place owner stuff some more. 

Lol me too.  Can somebody come up with a chart showing our first place finishes under Reinsdorf?  How many times has it happened?!

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8 hours ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

To Reinsdorf's credit, the White Sox finally won a division in 1983. On the night they clinched, they became the first Chicago baseball team to draw over 2,000,000 in a season. Most didn't think that would happen because of the miserable springs in Chicago. And this occurred in only the third year since his group purchased the team from Bill Veeck. The Seventies had been a miserable decade for the team, and Reinsdorf and Einhorn quickly gave the team credibility. But the team bombed in the playoffs, and then quickly faded. The last half of the '80s were only slightly better than the Seventies. 

Reinsdorf and his group have accomplished things with the franchise. I only wish successes lasted longer. We also could have skipped the strike and the White Flag Trade.

 

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21 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

To Reinsdorf's credit, the White Sox finally won a division in 1983. On the night they clinched, they became the first Chicago baseball team to draw over 2,000,000 in a season. Most didn't think that would happen because of the miserable springs in Chicago. And this occurred in only the third year since his group purchased the team from Bill Veeck. The Seventies had been a miserable decade for the team, and Reinsdorf and Einhorn quickly gave the team credibility. But the team bombed in the playoffs, and then quickly faded. The last half of the '80s were only slightly better than the Seventies. 

Reinsdorf and his group have accomplished things with the franchise. I only wish successes lasted longer. We also could have skipped the strike and the White Flag Trade.

 

I find it interesting that in 2012 White Sox attendance was 1.965 Mil and the team value was $700 Mil and in 2019 attendance was 1.646 Mil and team value was 1.6 Bil.  So for ownership attendance is pretty irrelevant. If you had a vested interest in the White Sox you pretty much doubled your investment in 6 years. 

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4 hours ago, SCCWS said:

I find it interesting that in 2012 White Sox attendance was 1.965 Mil and the team value was $700 Mil and in 2019 attendance was 1.646 Mil and team value was 1.6 Bil.  So for ownership attendance is pretty irrelevant. If you had a vested interest in the White Sox you pretty much doubled your investment in 6 years. 

This is what is frustrating to fans. Losing teams can make money, and so why should they spend it? Then again, if that's the case, why should we go?

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3 hours ago, NWINFan said:

This is what is frustrating to fans. Losing teams can make money, and so why should they spend it? Then again, if that's the case, why should we go?

TWTW...soon we will learn if Jerry has it.

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15 hours ago, Tony said:

The harsh reality is they don’t really care if you don’t show up to the ballpark. The reason all sports franchises have seen their values skyrocket is TV rights. Sports content is king, especially for the somewhat dying cable industry. Live sporting events are the only thing keeping cable alive, making it incredibly valuable. 
 

Stop watching and cancel your cable...then maybe they will start to feel a dent. Other than that....you’re SOL. 

Weird, because I get emails from the Sox everyday trying to get me to buy tickets. 

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5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Weird, because I get emails from the Sox everyday trying to get me to buy tickets. 

Teams always want more money. It still doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things if people show up.

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1 hour ago, mqr said:

Teams always want more money. It still doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things if people show up.

You can't say teams always want more money and then say attendance is really not that important. . If you had a wedding and no one showed up, it wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things. But if no one showed up, your pride would be hurt at the very least. The FO doesn't want bad crowds because it embarrasses the organization and makes the team less desirable to FA's and sponsors. We also have an owner who cherishes every penny, so even fan attendance is important to him. 

Edited by SonofaRoache

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

Thus.....proving some sort of point? 

If they didn't care about fans showing up why would they waste time emailing folks, meeting with season ticket holders, discounting tickets and food to get more fans in the parks etc? It's because they actually do care. Maybe not as much as they did previously, but fan attendance and game atmosphere are important. 

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2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

even fan attendance is important to him. 

Could have fooled me...

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24 minutes ago, Tony said:

As always, context is king. The original poster said the owner keeps making money even if the Sox lose, so why should fans go to the park? My response was to that post, and that attendance isn’t going to impact Jerry’s bottom line as much as some may think. 

I don’t know if you’re being intentionally obtuse, but yes, every franchise has a ticket sales office and it’s their job to fill the ballpark to the best of their abilities. It can make a franchise good money. But it doesn’t come CLOSE to the revenue created by broadcast rights, which is why almost every pro sports team is valued over a billion dollars.
 

The Lakers were valued at $900 million on 2012. They are now valued at 3.7 billion. You think that’s because tickets cost more? 

It's also worth considering that revenues may not be the thing that supports team valuations, but also the fact that we have a lot of billionaires who have no idea what to do with the vast amounts of money they have and owning a sports team is a serious vanity project.

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

As always, context is king. The original poster said the owner keeps making money even if the Sox lose, so why should fans go to the park? My response was to that post, and that attendance isn’t going to impact Jerry’s bottom line as much as some may think. 

I don’t know if you’re being intentionally obtuse, but yes, every franchise has a ticket sales office and it’s their job to fill the ballpark to the best of their abilities. It can make a franchise good money. But it doesn’t come CLOSE to the revenue created by broadcast rights, which is why almost every pro sports team is valued over a billion dollars.
 

The Lakers were valued at $900 million on 2012. They are now valued at 3.7 billion. You think that’s because tickets cost more? 

This is a message board, you need to make your point a little clearer. You said the harsh reality was they don't care if fans show up to the ball park because they are getting tv money. And fans should stop watching games on tv to take a stand. I am not obtuse for saying you are wrong because your original comment is very broad. I see what you what you mean now that it's explained and we agree on this issue. They don't need ball park revenue as much as before, but that money is still valuable enough for them to care to some degree. Fans not showing up is bad for their business because it impacts sponsorship, national tv exposure, fan support overall, and good players wanting to come here. All of this must be taken into context as well and shows why our FO and owner would care about fans at the park. Even if it is not just for the cash earned in sales. 

Edited by SonofaRoache

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So to clarify: I believed that Reinsdorf actually was trying to build 2nd place teams from 2000-2016. What he's doing now is anyone's best guess. We'll learn a lot this winter now that the Sox have an established core. 

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23 hours ago, NWINFan said:

This is what is frustrating to fans. Losing teams can make money, and so why should they spend it? Then again, if that's the case, why should we go?

Baseball is fun, baseball games are fun and Comiskey Park is a great place to spend a summer afternoon or evening with family and friends. 

 

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