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Jack Parkman

Rumor: Reinsdorf aims to build second place teams

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JR has said for many years that a winning team is expensive. Keep in mind that Forbes magazine said that the 2018 white Sox (which lost 100 games) were the 6th most profitable team in MLB. As long as the team payroll is low the white Sox franchise is a goldmine for JR and his investors.

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Just now, The Sir said:

This. Jerry’s a geriatric billionaire. He probably wants to make sure his heirs are set up for an easy life after he passes so money is priority number one- he’s not gonna a good chunk of his fortune to Machado or Harper or Cole, but he’s not trying to fail. That’s ridiculous.

What if he's found that 2nd and 3rd place finishes maximize profitability? 

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3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

What if he's found that 2nd and 3rd place finishes maximize profitability? 

Your claim from the OP is that he’s trying to end up in second place because it’ll strong us along. I reject that.

I think money matters most to Jerry, but he also wants to win. So he’ll pay Herrera and Keppinger and Laroche in an effort to WIN for cheap, but end up falling short. Second place is often the result but it’s not the intent.

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1 minute ago, The Sir said:

I think money matters most to Jerry, but he also wants to win. So he’ll pay Herrera and Keppinger and Laroche in an effort to WIN for cheap...

i doubt the goal is second place but this is a second-place strategy and very much how the org has operated during their windows of contention. 

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7 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Your claim from the OP is that he’s trying to end up in second place because it’ll strong us along. I reject that.

I think money matters most to Jerry, but he also wants to win. So he’ll pay Herrera and Keppinger and Laroche in an effort to WIN for cheap, but end up falling short. Second place is often the result but it’s not the intent.

It's a combination of stringing us along AND profitability. It drums up interest with the fanbase, keeps the media talking about the team, sells merchandise etc. It's a hugely profitable business model actually.

He builds 2nd place teams and hopes that everything goes right and they win. In 2005 that happened. I wouldn't count on it again. 

I'm actually going to change the thread title to be less confusing. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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18 minutes ago, The Sir said:

I read something about a prominent person on the autistic spectrum the other day, and it mentioned how one quirk of theirs is that they have rigid adherence to their favored ideas. I see this with Jack all the time. Nothing can talk him down from an idea once he believes it to be true.

You’re probably right.  It’s just very frustrating at I’ve met Jack in person and could tell instantly he’s a very smart guy, but my god some of the things he’s able to convince himself of are just downright nuts.

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17 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

JR has said for many years that a winning team is expensive. Keep in mind that Forbes magazine said that the 2018 white Sox (which lost 100 games) were the 6th most profitable team in MLB. As long as the team payroll is low the white Sox franchise is a goldmine for JR and his investors.

This is just plain stupid.  Of course a rebuilding team is going to be highly profitable because there is zero reason to spend excess money while trying to lose.  It’s really that simple and anyone calling out Jerry for that is flat out dumb.

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It all goes back to him being cheap. He doesn't want to spend like the Ricketts do or the Red Sox do. But he wants to win on his terms and dollars. That formula probably adds up to a 2nd place team in his head. But it's nuts to say he actually shoots for 2nd place.

As CWS said above, he is risk adverse, but that just spins off him being cheap.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

You’re probably right.  It’s just very frustrating at I’ve met Jack in person and could tell instantly he’s a very smart guy, but my god some of the things he’s able to convince himself of are just downright nuts.

I don't know why you think this is nuts. It makes so much sense actually. It's confusing to me why everyone doesn't believe this unless they are just in denial. I don't want to believe it either, but the evidence is overwhelming. 

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We all have some ideas that others can perceive as wacky or out there. Most people here are of the opinion that Abreu is the Cuban god of baseball

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34 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Do I believe Sampson on the whole "second place" thing as far as being more profitable and can be a bit cheap like Reinsdorf? Absolutely. 

Do I believe Reinsdorf doesn't care about winning at all? Absolutely not and his emotions when the Sox won the World Series and the parade reflect that. 

I think this is about smaller teams needing to stay competitive while not overextending themselves. That said, Sox have note been able to adhere to this model this decade.

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

I think this is about smaller teams needing to stay competitive while not overextending themselves. That said, Sox have note been able to adhere to this model this decade.

I hope you're right and this is taken completely out of context. but if you look at the Sox MO from 1995-2012..........It paints a completely different picture. 

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15 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Your claim from the OP is that he’s trying to end up in second place because it’ll strong us along. I reject that.

I think money matters most to Jerry, but he also wants to win. So he’ll pay Herrera and Keppinger and Laroche in an effort to WIN for cheap, but end up falling short. Second place is often the result but it’s not the intent.

There is zero doubt in my mind that Jerry wants to win, but he’s risk adverse and does not want to take a loss under any circumstance.  Our payrolls have always been middle of the pack or better and on a percentage of revenue basis we’re probably amongst the highest.  He just won’t spend before that revenue is in place to offset those costs and he doesn’t like long-term deals (especially for pitchers) because of the risk of wasted or dead money.  It’s really that simply IMO.

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6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There is zero doubt in my mind that Jerry wants to win, but he’s risk adverse and does not want to take a loss under any circumstance.  Our payrolls have always been middle of the pack or better and on a percentage of revenue basis we’re probably amongst the highest.  He just won’t spend before that revenue is in place to offset those costs and he doesn’t like long-term deals (especially for pitchers) because of the risk of wasted or dead money.  It’s really that simply IMO.

Dude I'm a Sox fan- why would I want to believe this??? This basically rules out winning. I believe it.....if you look at the Sox behavior from 1995-2012.......if the shoe fits...

This just sucks. 

I've always believed in tempering expectations, but now I have none whatsoever. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There is zero doubt in my mind that Jerry wants to win, but he’s risk adverse and does not want to take a loss under any circumstance.  Our payrolls have always been middle of the pack or better and on a percentage of revenue basis we’re probably amongst the highest.  He just won’t spend before that revenue is in place to offset those costs and he doesn’t like long-term deals (especially for pitchers) because of the risk of wasted or dead money.  It’s really that simply IMO.

To be fair, that’s not an entirely stupid risk aversion. Miguel Cabrera sucks now but the Tigers are going to be paying him $30 million per year until 2024. Pujols has been a disaster for the Angels. Stanton will be a Yankee until the Ivanka administration and he’s already playing in a mere 18 games. I’m sure by the last several years of their own mega deals, Bryce and Manny will constitute curse words in Philadelphia and San Diego respectively.

It might be unexciting, but it’s not like “the hell with signing long term deals for free agents” is an unsubstantiated belief.

Edited by The Sir

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22 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't know why you think this is nuts. It makes so much sense actually. It's confusing to me why everyone doesn't believe this unless they are just in denial. I don't want to believe it either, but the evidence is overwhelming. 

What makes sense?  That Reinsdorf purposely wants second place teams to string his fanbase along?

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8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What makes sense?  That Reinsdorf purposely wants second place teams to string his fanbase along?

Yes, mostly because he had multiple chances to put very competitive teams over the top from 1995-2012 and he never did it. The 2003 team was the most egregious example of self-sabotage. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Dude I'm a Sox fan- why would I want to believe this??? This basically rules out winning. I believe it.....if you look at the Sox behavior from 1995-2012.......if the shoe fits...

This just sucks. 

I've always believed in tempering expectations, but now I have none whatsoever. 

Because you are a pessimist who jumps on the first data point or rumor that suggests the worst.

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14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Dude I'm a Sox fan- why would I want to believe this??? This basically rules out winning. I believe it.....if you look at the Sox behavior from 1995-2012.......if the shoe fits...

This just sucks. 

I've always believed in tempering expectations, but now I have none whatsoever. 

Everything does't have to be black or white. There are shades of gray in the world. 

The Sox spending big money this off-season will greatly improve the chances of winning a World Series. But that doesn't mean they can't win one without spending big cash. There's a lot of talent floating around in this franchise now. One wouldn't be wise to have no expectations, or to give up on them already.

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1 minute ago, Sarava said:

Everything does't have to be black or white. There are shades of gray in the world. 

The Sox spending big money this off-season will greatly improve the chances of winning a World Series. But that doesn't mean they can't win one without spending big cash. There's a lot of talent floating around in this franchise now. One wouldn't be wise to have no expectations, or to give up on them already.

You're right, but they have to get really lucky. Lightning struck once, I'm not counting on it happening again. 

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2 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Even if this is true, Sox fans aren't going for anything less than excellence this time around. 

Not even sure what this means. It's not like the fans make any of the decisions.

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

You're right, but they have to get really lucky. Lightning struck once, I'm not counting on it happening again. 

I know everyone around here is expecting the Sox to be 'on the cheap' once again this winter. You can see it by the roster, trades and free agent signings they keep proposing. But I'm going to hold out hope that they shock us. Jerry did it once before in signing Joey Belle. He can do it again by signing Strasburg or Cole.

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4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Because you are a pessimist who jumps on the first data point or rumor that suggests the worst.

There's literally no reason to believe this isn't true. They had multiple opportunities from 2000-2008 to put the team over the top and win more than one title and they never did it. 

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3 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I know everyone around here is expecting the Sox to be 'on the cheap' once again this winter. You can see it by the roster, trades and free agent signings they keep proposing. But I'm going to hold out hope that they shock us. Jerry did it once before in signing Joey Belle. He can do it again by signing Strasburg or Cole.

I'm not completely closing my mind to the possibility, but I won't believe it until it happens. Same as I thought last year. 

They have to prove me wrong. I don't necessarily believe they're going to go super cheap this winter, but rather they're going to sign a lot of B-/C+ guys. 

Guys like Odorizzi, Wood, Dickerson, Calhoun, etc. and maybe make a trade or two. Wheeler is the highest profile guy I think they'd be on. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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