poppysox Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said: I'm curious why you believe this. My view is that, for better or worse, Puig is at least a RFer, not a LFer. And, he wouldn't cost any (scant) trade resources. If others are more correct as to his price than Spotrac and I believe his market to be, why in God's name wouldn't the Reinsdorfs be in on that? Also, one other thing I note about this thread: Almost ALL of us believe Wheeler to be the better, younger, more ascendant, and with fewer IP SP than Bumgarner. Almost ALL of us believe that there will be a large degree of interest in Wheeler. Yet, almost all of the predictions posted here project Bumgarner to get a larger contract/more years than Wheeler. Is this wishful thinking on the part of posters here? I see the opposite, in all honesty. I believe Wheeler will get the Cobin contract+, while Bumgarner will get less $/fewer years. Maybe we should sign Bumgarner and Wheeler just to make sure we cover all the bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 On 11/4/2019 at 7:41 AM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Outside of Bumgarner, Wheeler, Ryu and Strasburg my overall forecasts, and the general consensus for most on this board, are really close to what was projected there. If those pan out being accurate then give me Ryu ($16M AAV) Hamels ($14M AAV) Moose ($16M AAv) and Grandal ($15M AAV) Add a stopgap RF and a relief pitcher for a combined $15M AAV. That adds $76M to payroll this year. Add Abreu from anywhere from $14M to $18M. What's that bring the payroll to ? $!40M ? 2 years apiece for Ryu and Hamels gives the young starters time to develop or even remove Hamels and sign someone who costs less or just roll with Ryu and the core starters. Then in 2 years lose Moose, Ryu and Hamels to free up payroll that you might commit to extensions to the core or add in others ways. Of course I don't really believe anyone except possibly Hamels signs for only 2 years especially Ryu who I think is being severely undervalued by the amount of times he gets mentioned as a serious guy to sign. It's always Wheeler pretty much. But if Ryu does only get 2 years i think the AAV is higher for a guy who had a damn fine year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I reall don't think it is realistic to expect the Sox to sign more than 1 SP on a multi-year deal. We'll likely get one of Wheeler/Ryu/Madbum/Kuechel, and then a guy on a 1 year deal. Which is fine - we don't need two long term SP with Gio, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, Rodon, and even Dunning. We need 1 long term SP, plus someone to eat some early innings while Kopech gains his footing, and as injury insurance for later in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 21 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: I reall don't think it is realistic to expect the Sox to sign more than 1 SP on a multi-year deal. We'll likely get one of Wheeler/Ryu/Madbum/Kuechel, and then a guy on a 1 year deal. Which is fine - we don't need two long term SP with Gio, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, Rodon, and even Dunning. We need 1 long term SP, plus someone to eat some early innings while Kopech gains his footing, and as injury insurance for later in the season. These are good points and I largely agree. That said, it really depends on how the Sox treat Kopech. Hahn has made some hints that they'll keep Kopech down. So I can see a scenario where the Sox sign one of the guys you mentioned and then another average starting pitching that could end up in the pen. Say they keep Kopech down and run out something like this. 1 Giolito 2 Keuchel 3 Cease 4 McHugh/Gibson 5 Lopez Then end, of May Kopech comes in. Then Rodon and maybe Dunning/Steiver come into play June/July. I dont think Lopez should have a rotation and I dont think they should hold Kopech back but with the injuries and options the different ways they can deploy Kopech there is some serious flexibility that has to be a consideration with Cease/Kopech/Dunning/Stiever and even Giolito to an extent will have innings concerns come August/September. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJSOX Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, raBBit said: These are good points and I largely agree. That said, it really depends on how the Sox treat Kopech. Hahn has made some hints that they'll keep Kopech down. So I can see a scenario where the Sox sign one of the guys you mentioned and then another average starting pitching that could end up in the pen. Say they keep Kopech down and run out something like this. 1 Giolito 2 Keuchel 3 Cease 4 McHugh/Gibson 5 Lopez Then end, of May Kopech comes in. Then Rodon and maybe Dunning/Steiver come into play June/July. I dont think Lopez should have a rotation and I dont think they should hold Kopech back but with the injuries and options the different ways they can deploy Kopech there is some serious flexibility that has to be a consideration with Cease/Kopech/Dunning/Stiever and even Giolito to an extent will have innings concerns come August/September. I like the way you're thinking and think this is how the Sox are looking. Keuchel is about what I expect. I also really like Pomeranz as a swing man, really liked what he did for the Brewers out of the pen last yr. I believe Hahn and co. think we already have our aces in Gio, Kopech an Cease and won't be looking at the big name pitchers. I'm pretty much done with Lopez and would love to trade him (if he has any value) but I think we still need him this yr. Not sure about Rodon, is this his last yr. before FA? Can or would we extend him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, AJSOX said: I like the way you're thinking and think this is how the Sox are looking. Keuchel is about what I expect. I also really like Pomeranz as a swing man, really liked what he did for the Brewers out of the pen last yr. I believe Hahn and co. think we already have our aces in Gio, Kopech an Cease and won't be looking at the big name pitchers. I'm pretty much done with Lopez and would love to trade him (if he has any value) but I think we still need him this yr. Not sure about Rodon, is this his last yr. before FA? Can or would we extend him? He's Boras which never bodes well for the Sox if you wanted an extension. The Sox also have been disappointed in his dedication to his body (as has Boras Corp) so I don't really see the Sox extending him. Of course, it really depends on his last year and a half with the team. If he finds some of the ace potential and actually stays healthy it could change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 There is 0 reason to add 2 multi year SP. They need to get a #1 or #2 and a cheap innings eater on a 1 year deal because of the Kopech uncertainty. Anything more is a waste of limited JerryBux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 On 11/9/2019 at 11:38 AM, BackDoorBreach said: There is 0 reason to add 2 multi year SP. They need to get a #1 or #2 and a cheap innings eater on a 1 year deal because of the Kopech uncertainty. Anything more is a waste of limited JerryBux There is because it opens up the possibility of a trade of either Lopez or Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 29 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: There is because it opens up the possibility of a trade of either Lopez or Cease. The Sox aren’t going to trade Cease. 98% chance they don’t trade Lopez either, but at least that one I could see as part of a much larger deal if that presented itself. Sox need both of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 On 11/5/2019 at 12:01 AM, Buehrle>Wood said: The Athletic projects 3 years/60 million for Abreu More than the QO times three. Thought I was generous at 3x15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 3 hours ago, pcq said: More than the QO times three. Thought I was generous at 3x15. Bye Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 15 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: The Sox aren’t going to trade Cease. 98% chance they don’t trade Lopez either, but at least that one I could see as part of a much larger deal if that presented itself. Sox need both of those guys. I really don't know how much value Lopez even has.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, cjgalloway said: I really don't know how much value Lopez even has.. Lopez has plenty of value. 25 year old pitchers with above average stuff that already have two 185+ IP seasons under their belt don't grow on trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Lopez has plenty of value. 25 year old pitchers with above average stuff that already have two 185+ IP seasons under their belt don't grow on trees. While I agree he has some good potential... 4.63 FIP and 5.04 FIP do in fact grow on trees. I would be surprised if he has much value. Certainly not enough value to trade him. I would imagine we would get pennies. I think a Lopez for Mazara trade is realistic and about what his value would be. I would NOT make that trade due to his potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, cjgalloway said: While I agree he has some good potential... 4.63 FIP and 5.04 FIP do in fact grow on trees. I would be surprised if he has much value. Certainly not enough value to trade him. I would imagine we would get pennies. I think a Lopez for Mazara trade is realistic and about what his value would be. I would NOT make that trade due to his potential. lol wat? Reynaldo produced more fWAR in 2019 than Mazara has in his entire career. Plus, Lopez has 2 additional years of control compared to Mazara. These two are no where near similar in values. FWIW, Reynaldo was 14th in fWAR in the AL in 2019, and 19th in 2018. Guys like Reynaldo have a fair deal of value - sure he is frustrating to watch as a fan because he's wildly inconsistent and seemingly has a lot of untapped potential. To be clear, I am not at all suggesting the Sox should trade Lopez. You responded to a post in which I stated 98% chance the Sox don't trade him (they need him). But to suggest Reynaldo has no value and is basically a change of scenery candidate is a really ill-informed take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 52 minutes ago, cjgalloway said: While I agree he has some good potential... 4.63 FIP and 5.04 FIP do in fact grow on trees. I would be surprised if he has much value. Certainly not enough value to trade him. I would imagine we would get pennies. I think a Lopez for Mazara trade is realistic and about what his value would be. I would NOT make that trade due to his potential. I'd much rather have four years of control over Lopez than two years of Mazara right now. Lopez could take the next step and develop into a quality starter, or even hang around long term as a backend starter. That has value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) All these rumors about block-buster trades are floating about. To paraphrase the late, great Don Cornelius: You can bet your last money, it won"t involve Reinsdorf, honey.... Edited November 11, 2019 by GradMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 5 hours ago, cjgalloway said: I really don't know how much value Lopez even has.. Lopez isn't going anywhere short of someone overpaying. He's better than some think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 3:54 AM, Sarava said: For sure. But there's definitely a chance they don't want him back. Would Theo swallow his pride and trade him back to the Sox? Or does that stir up too much bs for him? Quintana straight up for Jonathan Stiever. Who says no? For the OP - most of the prices seem about right. I thought Puig's was actually too high. I'm going to be annoyed if the Sox sign Puig. I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) Sox sign Ryu (4/$80), Hamels (2/$28), Harris (3/$33) and Grandal (4/$72). Sox trade Cease, Stiever, Rutherford and Collins to Boston for Betts and sign him to a 7 year, $200M extension. Edited November 11, 2019 by soxfan49 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Lamar Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 I would like to see Rich Hill signed as the second pitcher on a short term deal but only if they are signing another more dependable starter as well. Let Hill take 15-20 starts to keep the innings down on Kopech and Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 5 hours ago, soxfan49 said: Sox sign Ryu (4/$80), Hamels (2/$28), Harris (3/$33) and Grandal (4/$72). Sox trade Cease, Stiever, Rutherford and Collins to Boston for Betts and sign him to a 7 year, $200M extension. More like $300m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 23 hours ago, bschmaranz said: More like $300m or $400M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, ChiSoxJon said: or $400M Yup. You know he's definitely going to try and get what Trout got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Smith got one year less but 1 million more per year. One down, 24 to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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