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Lillian

Potential Deals with Boston

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There is some speculation that the two Sox could make a deal, based upon their financial circumstances. The Palehose have plenty of payroll flexibility and the ROX have serious payroll constraints. Some of the potential deals have already been discussed here, but it would be nice to have a thread exclusively dedicated to this topic. What are your thoughts? This article is a good starting place:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/jd-martinez-mookie-betts-andrew-benintendi-could-white-sox-seek-big-splash-trade-red-sox-mlb-trade-rumors-free-agency-hot-stove-offseason

This podcast discusses the topic:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/podcast

Edited by Lillian
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Anything is possible, but why would the Sox give up assets for JD Martinez when Nick Castellanos is available for nothing but money.  Not even draft picks?  Seems unlikely.

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All signs point to Betts wanting to test the market next year. I think that would make Benintendi pretty much an untouchable since Martinez is the 4th outfielder at present.  Now if they were getting a talent better than Benintendi back, that is different. 

Rumors are pretty slow in New England these day since there is a new GM involved.  

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44 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Anything is possible, but why would the Sox give up assets for JD Martinez when Nick Castellanos is available for nothing but money.  Not even draft picks?  Seems unlikely.

There is a line of reasoning out there, which suggests that the White Sox might be able to acquire him, for virtually nothing, if they would take on one of Boston's albatross contracts i.e.; David Price. That contract ($32 Million per year, for 3 years) represents a lot of money, but if Price can return to something close to his performance level, of recent years, it might be worth considering. He's getting pretty old, but if healthy, would still be a decent addition to the rotation. What is the expectation for Price, for 2020? Boston might include a little cash, to help pay for that contract, if they're really desperate for some salary relief. The other intriguing possibility is to somehow include Benintendi, in a deal. All just food for thought.

Edited by Lillian

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5 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Anything is possible, but why would the Sox give up assets for JD Martinez when Nick Castellanos is available for nothing but money.  Not even draft picks?  Seems unlikely.

The length of the commitment is an issue. Will Castellanos be worth the deal he signs in 6 years while Martinez be be worth his in 3 as well as young outfielders may be ready by then.

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Price is 34 and has only been worth 6.2 fWAR the last three seasons...hasn’t been over 4 since 2016.  $94 million for three years would be the biggest contract in Sox history...by about $25 million.

If the Red Sox gave the White Sox $47 million back, how many would still want him for 3 years, at roughly $16 million per season?

Giving the Sox Benintendi to get Price off the books would add another player who’s getting more expensive...pushing Jimenez to RF or DH?

 

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10 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The length of the commitment is an issue. Will Castellanos be worth the deal he signs in 6 years while Martinez be be worth his in 3 as well as young outfielders may be ready by then.

Castellanos won’t get more than 3/4 years.  Five or six, the White Sox will be out, at any rate.

Edited by caulfield12

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46 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Anything is possible, but why would the Sox give up assets for JD Martinez when Nick Castellanos is available for nothing but money.  Not even draft picks?  Seems unlikely.

Because JD Martinez is a top 10 hitter... What is Castellanos?

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31 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Price is 34 and has only been worth 6.2 fWAR the last three seasons...hasn’t been over 4 since 2016.  $94 million for three years would be the biggest contract in Sox history...by about $25 million.

If the Red Sox gave the White Sox $47 million back, how many would still want him for 3 years, at roughly $16 million per season?

Giving the Sox Benintendi to get Price off the books would add another player who’s getting more expensive...pushing Jimenez to RF or DH?

 

Benni would for sure play RF.. This would be a no brainer IF it was even an option.  Benni has serious upside.  Price isn't just a scrub now, he is still a decent pitcher when pitching.  If he were in this free agent class I would have no doubt he would be behind Ryu as the 7th best pitcher, ahead of guys like Kuechel, wood, hill and many others being discussed.

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8 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

Benni would for sure play RF.. This would be a no brainer IF it was even an option.  Benni has serious upside.  Price isn't just a scrub now, he is still a decent pitcher when pitching.  If he were in this free agent class I would have no doubt he would be behind Ryu as the 7th best pitcher, ahead of guys like Kuechel, wood, hill and many others being discussed.

They do that, Boston resigns Betts and this becomes the biggest gamble of Hahn’s career if Price continues to be just a 2 fWAR pitcher at age 34-35-36.

With Benintendi, we’d hardly be getting any money back from Boston, maybe $12-15 million out of $94.

That alone would add $35 million to the payroll.

Wouldn't it be better to just pay Cole or Betts that money directly...because Benintendi really needs to be a 3-4 fWAR player for it to really make the type of difference they need.   At 1.5-2.0 fWAR, it becomes a lot more questionable because you’ve just blown through 70% of your offseason budget for additions...maybe even 80-85%.

Edited by caulfield12

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IF Jerry decides to really open the check book the next 5-10 years, I'm all about taking the risk on Betts. This looks like a very fun team to be a part of, and I think Mookie being here for a year would give them a leg up on the field to resign him.

 

Idk what it'd take, but if they can get it done without giving up any of the pieces already on tbe ML roster or Robert I think I'd pull that trigger. Yes, I'd be comfortable giving up Vaughn OR Madrigal along with anything else in the minors(again outside of Robert).

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1 minute ago, scs787 said:

IF Jerry decides to really open the check book the next 5-10 years, I'm all about taking the risk on Betts. This looks like a very fun team to be a part of, and I think Mookie being here for a year would give them a leg up on the field to resign him.

 

Idk what it'd take, but if they can get it done without giving up any of the pieces already on tbe ML roster or Robert I think I'd pull that trigger. Yes, I'd be comfortable giving up Vaughn OR Madrigal along with anything else in the minors(again outside of Robert).

Then lose him and have no 2B?  They would have to spend another $40-50 million in FA to put a legit full charge at the playoffs or it would just set us back again into 2021.  Even if they wanted to spend it (additionally) on Wheeler and Grandal, that doesn’t necessarily mean it will happen.

There’s pretty much zero chance he signs at extension before hitting FA.   

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6 minutes ago, scs787 said:

IF Jerry decides to really open the check book the next 5-10 years, I'm all about taking the risk on Betts. This looks like a very fun team to be a part of, and I think Mookie being here for a year would give them a leg up on the field to resign him.

 

Idk what it'd take, but if they can get it done without giving up any of the pieces already on tbe ML roster or Robert I think I'd pull that trigger. Yes, I'd be comfortable giving up Vaughn OR Madrigal along with anything else in the minors(again outside of Robert).

8/260 with 'unlikely to be earned incentives' to make it 10/350? We're at the table, and our offer will trump even a guaranteed offer of 10/350! IT'S ALL BINARY!

Edited by Soxnfins
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Maybe getting JR pot committed by trading prospects for Betts is what Hahn needs to do to get him to spend for a top player.

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Betts is one of a handful of players I take that risk on, yes. With an offense that features Betts, Moncada, Robert, Eloy, Anderson, Abreu/Vaughn, I think you could live with a guy like Scooter Ginnett or even Yolmer at 2B.

 

It may be easier said than done, but you have to let Mookie know that he can play the FA game, but at the end of day we're gonna match any offer he gets. 

Edited by scs787

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16 minutes ago, scs787 said:

IF Jerry decides to really open the check book the next 5-10 years, I'm all about taking the risk on Betts. This looks like a very fun team to be a part of, and I think Mookie being here for a year would give them a leg up on the field to resign him.

 

Idk what it'd take, but if they can get it done without giving up any of the pieces already on tbe ML roster or Robert I think I'd pull that trigger. Yes, I'd be comfortable giving up Vaughn OR Madrigal along with anything else in the minors(again outside of Robert).

The Sox aren't giving up Vaughn...or Madrigal. They've waited this long for their home grown talent...not to just flip them for somebody who's no guarantee to resign. That sting of Tatis Jr is still probably pretty fresh head too I'm sure.

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51 minutes ago, scs787 said:

IF Jerry decides to really open the check book the next 5-10 years, I'm all about taking the risk on Betts. This looks like a very fun team to be a part of, and I think Mookie being here for a year would give them a leg up on the field to resign him.

 

Idk what it'd take, but if they can get it done without giving up any of the pieces already on tbe ML roster or Robert I think I'd pull that trigger. Yes, I'd be comfortable giving up Vaughn OR Madrigal along with anything else in the minors(again outside of Robert).

While you can't plan for a single FA to sign here, I would spend whatever it took ti bring in a perennial MVP candidate like Betts...Regardless I'm more interested in shorter term deals this offseason anyway with youth still being infused (Kopech, Dunning, Collins, Adolfo, Rutherford, Walker, Gonzalez, Vaughn)

Still hoping for Grandal this offseason, Castellanos doesn't do much for me, reeks of an overpay although he would be an upgrade

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42 minutes ago, Wanne said:

The Sox aren't giving up Vaughn...or Madrigal. They've waited this long for their home grown talent...not to just flip them for somebody who's no guarantee to resign. That sting of Tatis Jr is still probably pretty fresh head too I'm sure.

The difference is they had no idea what they had in Tatis.  They should have a good idea what they have in both those players and may decide it's better to move them for a more impactful player.

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2 hours ago, Timmy U said:

Anything is possible, but why would the Sox give up assets for JD Martinez when Nick Castellanos is available for nothing but money.  Not even draft picks?  Seems unlikely.

I believe the theory is if the White Sox take on salary they wont need to surrender any real assets. Benetendi would be required for Boston to shed those contracts.

How funny, 2 years ago some sox fans were crying that the Sox got Moncada instead of Benetendi. I think we can all thank Hahn for picking the correct prospect.

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2 hours ago, Lillian said:

There is a line of reasoning out there, which suggests that the White Sox might be able to acquire him, for virtually nothing, if they would take on one of Boston's albatross contracts i.e.; David Price. That contract ($32 Million per year, for 3 years) represents a lot of money, but if Price can return to something close to his performance level, of recent years, it might be worth considering. He's getting pretty old, but if healthy, would still be a decent addition to the rotation. What is the expectation for Price, for 2020? Boston might include a little cash, to help pay for that contract, if they're really desperate for some salary relief. The other intriguing possibility is to somehow include Benintendi, in a deal. All just food for thought.

Price was on a 4.5 WAR pace this year. He's no longer a star, but he certainly is still a + starter who would liking get 20+ million a year if he was a FA. He's probably overpaid by about 30 million so Benetendis surplus value would negate that difference and the sox should only have to give up a middling prospect.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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1 hour ago, cjgalloway said:

Because JD Martinez is a top 10 hitter... What is Castellanos?

I know others have said this, and you don't agree, but JD is on a downward trend (the most alarming stat signifying him aging are his numbers against 95+mph fastballs. JDs production on those pitches has cratered the past two years, symbolizing a reduction in bat speed) while one could argue Castellanos is trending upward. His EVs and etc have increased. Its very possible that Castellanos could outhit Martinez in the final two years of his deal. 

I wouldnt be upset about Castellanos. The more I dig into his numbers the more encouraging his progress and growth appears. The kid could really be coming into his own at 28-29 years old and I wouldnt be shocked to see 900+ ops' from him for a year or two of his peak.

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Price is 34 and has only been worth 6.2 fWAR the last three seasons...hasn’t been over 4 since 2016.  $94 million for three years would be the biggest contract in Sox history...by about $25 million.

If the Red Sox gave the White Sox $47 million back, how many would still want him for 3 years, at roughly $16 million per season?

Giving the Sox Benintendi to get Price off the books would add another player who’s getting more expensive...pushing Jimenez to RF or DH?

 

Why would Eloy move to right when Benetendi is, by far, the superior defender. An outfield of benetendi and robert would be electric defensively even with Eloy in left. Robert could shade eloy way and likely compensate himself for Eloys lack of range.

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

They do that, Boston resigns Betts and this becomes the biggest gamble of Hahn’s career if Price continues to be just a 2 fWAR pitcher at age 34-35-36.

With Benintendi, we’d hardly be getting any money back from Boston, maybe $12-15 million out of $94.

That alone would add $35 million to the payroll.

Wouldn't it be better to just pay Cole or Betts that money directly...because Benintendi really needs to be a 3-4 fWAR player for it to really make the type of difference they need.   At 1.5-2.0 fWAR, it becomes a lot more questionable because you’ve just blown through 70% of your offseason budget for additions...maybe even 80-85%.

Price was no where near a 2 WAR pitcher this year. He accumulated 2.3 WAR in just 100 IP. Price has never had a FIP above 4.02. The demise of David Price has been greatly exaggerated because of his market and contract. 

Price and Benetendi for 32 million is more valuable than Cole for 32 million imo. I don't think it straps the Sox at all.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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17 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The difference is they had no idea what they had in Tatis.  They should have a good idea what they have in both those players and may decide it's better to move them for a more impactful player.

It will be more fun for all of us to watch you make an excuse and complain about all of Nick Madrigals successes at the MLB level. Remember when he went 4-5 or 5-5 in Triple A and you said they would have all been outs in the big leagues? That was funny.

The Sox should have no interest in moving Madrigal. He is what this team desperately needs - an elite defensive player who never strikes out, works counts and is as smart of a baseball player as you'll find. He is one of the key pieces this team was missing this year.

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