Chicago White Sox Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Alright, recently a poster who shall remain nameless called Rick Hahn "a very smart guy" and expressed optimism in his ability to take us to the next level. As such, I thought it would be fitting to summarize Rick's tenure as GM (both the good & the bad) and see what people really think. If I'm missing anything of substance below, please let me know as I'm trying to be objective here as possible. With that said here we go: ▪ Duration: 7 seasons (2013 to 2019) ▪ W/L Record: 491-642 (.433 winning %) ▪ Playoff Appearances: Zero ▪ Winning Seasons: Zero ▪ Avg Central Finish: 4.0 (3rd x 1, 4th x 5, 5th x 1) ▪ Free Agency: $256M for 20 bWAR ($13M / win) │ Abreu = $68M for 21 bWAR │All Others = $188M for -1 bWAR (per SoxMachine) ▪ Extensions: Sale = 7/$60M (3 FA years) │ Quainta = 7/$44M (2 FA years) │ Eaton = 7/$44M (3 FA years) │ Anderson = 8/$52M (2 FA years) │ Jimenez = 8/$78M (1 FA year) ▪ Sell Trades: Hector Santiago & Brandon Jacobs for Adam Eaton │ Addison Read for Matt Davidson │ Jake Peavy for Avi Garcia, Frankie Montas, Clueluis Rondon, & J.B. Wendelken │ Gordon Beckham for Yency Almonte │ Zach Duke for Charlie Tilson │ Chris Sale for Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Basabe, & Victor Diaz │ Adam Eaton for Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez, & Dane Dunning │ Jose Quintana for Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Matt Rose, & Bryant Flete │ Anthony Swarzak for Ryan Cordell │ David Robertson, Tommy Kahnle, & Todd Frazier for Blake Rutherford, Ian Clarkin, & Tito Polo ▪ Buy Trades: Marcus Semien, Chris Bassitt, Josh Phegley, & Rangel Ravelo for Jeff Samardzija │ Yency Almonte for Tommy Kahnle │ Zack Erwin & J.B. Wendelken for Brett Lawrie │ Trayce Thompson, Frankie Montas, & Micah Johnson for Todd Frazier │ Erik Johnson & Fernando Tatis Jr for James Shields │ Justin Yurchak for Manny Banuelos │ Omar Narvaez for Alex Colome │ Yordi Rosario for Ivan Nova │ Alex for Yonder Alonso ▪ Bonus Slot Trades: Alex Katz for $756k in Bonus Slot │Undisclosed Bonus Slot for Ryan Burr │ $500k in Bonus Slot for Thyago Vieira │ $1.3M* in Bonus Slot for Yeyson Yrizarri │ $1.5M in Bonus Slot for Caleb Frare │ $1M* in Bonus Slot for Hunter Schryver │ Undisclosed bonus slot for Ricardo Pinto │$1M in Bonus Slot for Nate Jones' $1.25M buyout, Ray Castro, & Joseph Jarneski │ $250k in Bonus Slot for Wellington Castillo's $500k buyout & Jonah McReynolds ▪ Misc Moves: Non-tendered Tyler Flowers (2015) │ Selected Jimmy Cordero off waivers (2019) ▪ Drafting: Tim Anderson = 7.8 fWAR (2013/01) │ Carlos Rodon = 6.9 fWAR (2014/01) │ Jace Fry = 1.2 fWAR (2014/03) │ Aaron Bummer = 1.6 fWAR (2014/19) │ Nick Madrigal = Top 100 Prospect (2018/01) │ Andrew Vaughn = Top 100 Prospect (2019/01) ▪ LatAm Signings: Fernando Tatis Jr = 3.6 fWAR (2015 class) │ Luis Robert = Top 100 Prospect (2017 class) ▪ Player Dev Rank: 30th / -$350M in value generated (per Driveline) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Alright, recently a poster who shall remain nameless called Rick Hahn "a very smart guy" and expressed optimism in his ability to take us to the next level. As such, I thought it would be fitting to summarize Rick's tenure as GM (both the good & the bad) and see what people really think. If I'm missing anything of substance below, please let me know as I'm trying to be objective here as possible. With that said here we go: ▪ Duration: 7 seasons (2013 to 2019) ▪ W/L Record: 491-642 (.433 winning %) ▪ Playoff Appearances: Zero ▪ Winning Seasons: Zero ▪ Avg Central Finish: 4.0 (3rd x 1, 4th x 5, 5th x 1) ▪ Free Agency: $256M for 20 bWAR ($13M / win) │ Abreu = $68M for 21 bWAR │All Others = $188M for -1 bWAR (per SoxMachine) ▪ Extensions: Sale = 7/$60M (3 FA years) │ Quainta = 7/$44M (2 FA years) │ Eaton = 7/$44M (3 FA years) │ Anderson = 8/$52M (2 FA years) │ Jimenez = 8/$78M (1 FA year) ▪ Sell Trades: Hector Santiago & Brandon Jacobs for Adam Eaton │ Addison Read for Matt Davidson │ Jake Peavy for Avi Garcia, Frankie Montas, Clueluis Rondon, & J.B. Wendelken │ Gordon Beckham for Yency Almonte │ Zach Duke for Charlie Tilson │ Chris Sale for Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Basabe, & Victor Diaz │ Adam Eaton for Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez, & Dane Dunning │ Jose Quintana for Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Matt Rose, & Bryant Flete │ Anthony Swarzak for Ryan Cordell │ David Robertson, Tommy Kahnle, & Todd Frazier for Blake Rutherford, Ian Clarkin, & Tito Polo ▪ Buy Trades: Marcus Semien, Chris Bassitt, Josh Phegley, & Rangel Ravelo for Jeff Samardzija │ Yency Almonte for Tommy Kahnle │ Zack Erwin & J.B. Wendelken for Brett Lawrie │ Trayce Thompson, Frankie Montas, & Micah Johnson for Todd Frazier │ Erik Johnson & Fernando Tatis Jr for James Shields │ Justin Yurchak for Manny Banuelos │ Omar Narvaez for Alex Colome │ Yordi Rosario for Ivan Nova │ Alex for Yonder Alonso ▪ Bonus Slot Trades: Alex Katz for $756k in Bonus Slot │Undisclosed Bonus Slot for Ryan Burr │ $500k in Bonus Slot for Thyago Vieira │ $1.3M* in Bonus Slot for Yeyson Yrizarri │ $1.5M in Bonus Slot for Caleb Frare │ $1M* in Bonus Slot for Hunter Schryver │ Undisclosed bonus slot for Ricardo Pinto │$1M in Bonus Slot for Nate Jones' $1.25M buyout, Ray Castro, & Joseph Jarneski │ $250k in Bonus Slot for Wellington Castillo's $500k buyout & Jonah McReynolds ▪ Misc Moves: Non-tendered Tyler Flowers (2015) │ Selected Jimmy Cordero off waivers (2019) ▪ Drafting: Tim Anderson = 7.8 fWAR (2013/01) │ Carlos Rodon = 6.9 fWAR (2014/01) │ Jace Fry = 1.2 fWAR (2014/03) │ Aaron Bummer = 1.6 fWAR (2014/19) │ Nick Madrigal = Top 100 Prospect (2018/01) │ Andrew Vaughn = Top 100 Prospect (2019/01) ▪ LatAm Signings: Fernando Tatis Jr = 3.6 fWAR (2015 class) │ Luis Robert = Top 100 Prospect (2017 class) ▪ Player Dev Rank: 30th / -$350M in value generated (per Driveline) Awful. He should have been fired before the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Yes Rick Hahn is a very smart guy so he should be running a hedge fund or negotiating union contracts because we have a large enough sample to know he is completely overmatched in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 He has made good trades when dealing away high level players. You look at the Marlins return for their guys and it is ugly. Rick has also inked some very team friendly contracts. Aside from that, he's trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 9, 2019 Author Share Posted November 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Awful. He should have been fired before the rebuild. There are some positives, but certain things really stand out. 1) The free agent track record is beyond atrocious outside of Abreu. SoxMachine has a detailed article on this if anyone is interested, but let’s just say diving into the detail doesn’t change much. Lot’s of wasted money on immaterial signings. 2) His pre-FA extension track record has been fantastic, but the Jimenez deal seems far away the most player friendly (only bought out one FA year) and is hopefully not a sign of things to come. 3) His “sell” trades have been solid for the most part, with the three core “rebuild” moves really standing out. 4) The “buy” moves are plagued by the disastrous Shields trade and to a lesser extent by the questionable Samardzija trade. I was a big Semien fan but no one thought he’d end up being this good, but Shark was a total and only under one year of control. 5) Our return so far on the international slot bonus we’ve traded away has been poor, with Burr, Frare, & Schryver are only hopes left of realizing any value 6) Look at our draft record under Hahn, I identified only four guys who amassed over 1 fWAR and two guys who are currently top 100 prospects (both of which were top 5 overall picks). We simply haven’t done much outside of the first round and the early returns from the 2015 to 2017 draft aren’t promising. 7) Our LatAm operations has been a total disaster with only guy who has achieved over 1 fWAR (who we traded away before he even played for us) and one top 100 prospect. Outside of those two, the only prospect I’m aware of that has reached AA is Micker Adolfo and there are only a handful of other guys that would be considered top 30 system talents. We’ve also decided to stop spending our full pool this year because “Marco didn’t like anyone”. 😎 Ultimately a lot of the failures above come from poor player development. While I’m not 100% in agreement in Driveline’s study, there is no doubt we are amongst the worst in baseball when it comes to player development and it appears we are still well behind the curve when it comes to leveraging analytics, Trackman data, and other innovations when developing our minor leaguers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, ron883 said: He has made good trades when dealing away high level players. You look at the Marlins return for their guys and it is ugly. Rick has also inked some very team friendly contracts. Aside from that, he's trash. What else is he solely responsible for? I notice player development in the op Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 58 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Yes Rick Hahn is a very smart guy so he should be running a hedge fund or negotiating union contracts because we have a large enough sample to know he is completely overmatched in baseball. Convincing rich people to give him large amounts of money for counter intuitive plays against the market? Seems like he’d be bad at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Yeah, he's garbage and so is Kenny. They are going to fuck this rebuild up before it even comes to fruition, especially if the 3/45 for Abreu is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 I’m just glad we don’t have to read the weird fanfic posts like last year posing Hahn as this hardass negotiator against hapless players and agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 We can only hope he has learned lessons and when he gets to the point he was at before and failed miserably, he will be successful. One thing that would help is trying to get the team being as good as can be on opening day, not half assing saying you will add at the deadline. If that practice hasn't been eliminated, the sustained success goal will never be realized. Face it, the only time they won, Geoff Blum was the only addition. If you needed to add significantly at the deadline, White Sox fans may still be waiting. Juggernaut on opening day should be the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Friday Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 I had really high hopes for the Hahn era, but he’s been disappointing and after last offseason I really have no faith left in his abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulfly Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 He's literal fucking garbage. Just seeing the bWAR for all other free agent signing is downright embarrassing. He needs to be fired, but I don't see the Sox getting rid of this clown before the complete damage to this rebuild is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Let's post it on LinkedIn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Look on the bright side. At this time last year, he was 30th of 30 teams in wins during his tenure. Now he's up to 29th out of 30! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Just the idea of the same 2 guys who ran the team into the point of a complete rebuild as the only option getting the reigns of that very same rebuild? I mean, yikes...it doesn’t even pass the common sense test. And the sad part is that I can see Hahn getting himself fired eventually. But the real puppet master KW? Have a scary feeling we may be stuck with him as long as JR is alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Look on the bright side. At this time last year, he was 30th of 30 teams in wins during his tenure. Now he's up to 29th out of 30! Who did we pass? Marlins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullythered Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 I feel like he was pretty hamstrung by Kenny for the first few years of his "GM" tenure, and the rebuild marks the time when he actually got to start doing what he wanted. In my view, Hahn's defining move is getting players to sign long-term deals early, which drastically raises their value. I'm happy with the young talent that he has acquired since the rebuild began. I was hoping the Sox would get Machado, but the fact of the matter is Moncada (in his breakout year) was pretty significantly better than Manny last year. Last season would have been early in a rebuild to start adding veterans, I think. Now that several of the young players have shown that they are good (potentially great) major league players, and a couple more are right on the cusp, the Sox know what areas need to be addressed via free agency. Jerry's track record is very poor in regards to free agents, but the White Sox have literally never been in this position, financially, so I'm giving him this winter to change his stripes. They could add three absolutely premiere FAs, and still only put themselves near 11th or 12th in payroll (where they were from '05 until the start of the rebuild). This is Hahn's one chance, though, in my eyes. This rebuild is his baby, I think. It's the first thing that doesn't feel like it has Kenny's fingerprints on it. I am very happy with the early returns on the added youth, but if the rebuild does not produce a multi-year playoff contender at some point, then Hahn has failed, and he must go. I think the "beginning of the end" of a GM's first attempt at a rebuild is a pretty slanted spot to judge him, statistically. But, of course, I am an optimist by nature. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Who did we pass? Marlins? correct. We are now slightly better than the worst franchise in baseball! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: correct. We are now slightly better than the worst franchise in baseball! Fuck yeah! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 9, 2019 Author Share Posted November 9, 2019 Moncada & Giolito are scheduled to be free agents after the 2023 season and for now the next four years represent the primary window (obviously subject to change). For Hahn to reach a .500 record by the end of this stretch, the Sox would have to average exactly 100 wins over the next four seasons. I hope Hahn plans to spends some serious cash this offseason, because he’s got his work out for him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said: Just the idea of the same 2 guys who ran the team into the point of a complete rebuild as the only option getting the reigns of that very same rebuild? I mean, yikes...it doesn’t even pass the common sense test. And the sad part is that I can see Hahn getting himself fired eventually. But the real puppet master KW? Have a scary feeling we may be stuck with him as long as JR is alive It would be one thing if it was a successful team whose core got old and expensive and had to be torn down. But mediocre at best, awful at worst before the rebuild should indicate someone else should have done the rebuilding. Eventually winning will matter. JR isn’t going to own the team forever. RH has degrees from Michigan, Harvard, and Northwestern, so he is obviously bright, but building baseball teams doesn’t seem to be an area of expertise. Edited November 9, 2019 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Alright, recently a poster who shall remain nameless called Rick Hahn "a very smart guy" and expressed optimism in his ability to take us to the next level. As such, I thought it would be fitting to summarize Rick's tenure as GM (both the good & the bad) and see what people really think. If I'm missing anything of substance below, please let me know as I'm trying to be objective here as possible. With that said here we go: ▪ Duration: 7 seasons (2013 to 2019) ▪ W/L Record: 491-642 (.433 winning %) ▪ Playoff Appearances: Zero ▪ Winning Seasons: Zero ▪ Avg Central Finish: 4.0 (3rd x 1, 4th x 5, 5th x 1) ▪ Free Agency: $256M for 20 bWAR ($13M / win) │ Abreu = $68M for 21 bWAR │All Others = $188M for -1 bWAR (per SoxMachine) ▪ Extensions: Sale = 7/$60M (3 FA years) │ Quainta = 7/$44M (2 FA years) │ Eaton = 7/$44M (3 FA years) │ Anderson = 8/$52M (2 FA years) │ Jimenez = 8/$78M (1 FA year) ▪ Sell Trades: Hector Santiago & Brandon Jacobs for Adam Eaton │ Addison Read for Matt Davidson │ Jake Peavy for Avi Garcia, Frankie Montas, Clueluis Rondon, & J.B. Wendelken │ Gordon Beckham for Yency Almonte │ Zach Duke for Charlie Tilson │ Chris Sale for Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Basabe, & Victor Diaz │ Adam Eaton for Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez, & Dane Dunning │ Jose Quintana for Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Matt Rose, & Bryant Flete │ Anthony Swarzak for Ryan Cordell │ David Robertson, Tommy Kahnle, & Todd Frazier for Blake Rutherford, Ian Clarkin, & Tito Polo ▪ Buy Trades: Marcus Semien, Chris Bassitt, Josh Phegley, & Rangel Ravelo for Jeff Samardzija │ Yency Almonte for Tommy Kahnle │ Zack Erwin & J.B. Wendelken for Brett Lawrie │ Trayce Thompson, Frankie Montas, & Micah Johnson for Todd Frazier │ Erik Johnson & Fernando Tatis Jr for James Shields │ Justin Yurchak for Manny Banuelos │ Omar Narvaez for Alex Colome │ Yordi Rosario for Ivan Nova │ Alex for Yonder Alonso ▪ Bonus Slot Trades: Alex Katz for $756k in Bonus Slot │Undisclosed Bonus Slot for Ryan Burr │ $500k in Bonus Slot for Thyago Vieira │ $1.3M* in Bonus Slot for Yeyson Yrizarri │ $1.5M in Bonus Slot for Caleb Frare │ $1M* in Bonus Slot for Hunter Schryver │ Undisclosed bonus slot for Ricardo Pinto │$1M in Bonus Slot for Nate Jones' $1.25M buyout, Ray Castro, & Joseph Jarneski │ $250k in Bonus Slot for Wellington Castillo's $500k buyout & Jonah McReynolds ▪ Misc Moves: Non-tendered Tyler Flowers (2015) │ Selected Jimmy Cordero off waivers (2019) ▪ Drafting: Tim Anderson = 7.8 fWAR (2013/01) │ Carlos Rodon = 6.9 fWAR (2014/01) │ Jace Fry = 1.2 fWAR (2014/03) │ Aaron Bummer = 1.6 fWAR (2014/19) │ Nick Madrigal = Top 100 Prospect (2018/01) │ Andrew Vaughn = Top 100 Prospect (2019/01) ▪ LatAm Signings: Fernando Tatis Jr = 3.6 fWAR (2015 class) │ Luis Robert = Top 100 Prospect (2017 class) ▪ Player Dev Rank: 30th / -$350M in value generated (per Driveline) I'm putting my money on @Look at Ray Ray Run. Who is it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 9, 2019 Author Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 minute ago, ron883 said: I'm putting my money on @Look at Ray Ray Run. Who is it? It’s not him, but not really looking to call out the specific person. It was more about the reasoning for creating this thread, as I was surprised Rick still had vocal supporters and wanted to see if they felt as strongly about him after seeing all the facts laid in front of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJSOX Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 I'm not really sure how to evaluate him. He does really well with contracts but his trades and FA signings are pretty bad which would lead me to believe the people under him advising him. Our evaluations of players are bad and I guess overall that's Hahn's or KW's job to see we have the best avail. I think his overall plans have been sound, just the players he signed have failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: It’s not him, but not really looking to call out the specific person. It was more about the reasoning for creating this thread, as I was surprised Rick still had vocal supporters and wanted to see if they felt as strongly about him after seeing all the facts laid in front of them. We must name this individual so he can be berated for having a different opinion than us 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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