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Chicago White Sox

Rick Hahn's Resume as GM

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3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Even his advantages in the draft were tied to outspending and overspending other teams. 

I've always thought Friedman and Beane were better than Theo because they could do it on a budget.

That said, even with the advantages of overspending in the draft Theo was a great drafter of offensive talent. Him and his teams have excelled in identifying that talent.

I agree that Friedman and Beane are top notch.  You are also correct about reference to "teams have excelled in identifying that talent."  More than RH are involved in player selection.

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Lol people just love to hate Kenny. I am one of them, but I see nothing wrong with this quote.

I like it myself but best if we fly under the radar this time around.

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1 minute ago, cjgalloway said:

I actually love it... Let's go.. I think they're all pissed and embarrassed about what happened last year.

Let's hope so.

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Just now, SoxAce said:

Let's hope so.

This is my hope as well.

They were clearly upset about it, but the question is... upset enough to change your ways? Or upset that they couldn't convince others to conform to their ways.

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2 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

I actually love it... Let's go.. I think they're all pissed and embarrassed about what happened last year.

It's all lip service until they prove otherwise

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7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Lol people just love to hate Kenny. I am one of them, but I see nothing wrong with this quote.

Probably because he said the same bs last year

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42 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Lol people just love to hate Kenny. I am one of them, but I see nothing wrong with this quote.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the statement, but I'd prefer Kenny play things a little closer to the chest.

Hahn probably doesn't love this comment. 

Edited by mqr

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3 hours ago, aeichhor said:

Jerry's the one driving everything. Start with the top first

I don’t disagree but it makes the comparison with Cubs, Astros , and Royals rebuilds apples and oranges.

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2 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I'll be the first to admit Rick Hahn has had his share of misses; last offseason in particular was a shambling beclownment of the franchise.  But if you did an assessment like this (heavily weighting recent playoff appearances, wins, etc.) of any GM at the tail end of a multi-year rebuild it would look pretty terrible.  We are at the doorstep of the supposed contention period the rebuild was designed to usher in.  If the Sox take off on a multi-year tear all will be forgotten.  If they fall on their face RH will have no supporters left, and will probably be fired. 

Doing this exercise right now seems sort of pointless:  a bit like criticizing a movie for going over-budget, making controversial casting choices, and hiring a director of with a few flops on his resume as you're sitting in the theater watching the opening credits roll.  At this point just sit back and watch the movie.

If the original post was only on wins & losses that would be one thing, but functions that are critical to a rebuild have yet to show much progress.  Yes, for the draft it could still be early to evaluate the returns on recent strategic changes, but the first few drafts under Hostetler haven’t reaped a lot of rewards.  Player development is still very much a mess based on both results and what we’re hearing about the modernness of the function.  And our LatAm program is now basically non-existent.  The plan was to “build waves of talent” per Hahn, but as soon as the core guys are up (acquired by trading our best players, drafting in the top 5, or spending $50M) the system will very much be bottom 10 and likely bottom five.  The failure to supplement around the core pieces is a major issue even if you want to ignore the struggles during Hahn’s first four years as GM.

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3 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yeah, the player dev angle is the one I’m most disappointed with. It isn’t that difficult to poach secrets from successful orgs — in fact I’ve been told it’s one of the things that those orgs worry about the most. All their hiring are public, you can physically see the facilities easily, and if you want, you can pretty much get any guy you want from the Astros/Yankees/etc. if you’re willing to give the person a big raise or promotion. The fact that the White Sox have objectively been one of the absolute worst at PD in an age where information is more freely available than ever speaks to some real troubling issues, whether it’s incompetence or a lack of willingness to invest. 

Instead of hiring a guy from one of the elite organizations, the Sox hired a very green dude from the Royals.  The Getz here was ridiculous at the time and I don’t see why that doesn’t fall on Hahn.

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3 hours ago, bmags said:

For me it's international. I am quite honestly much more upset with the 2019-20 intl class being so clearly bungled or deprioritized than screwing up last offseason.

At least with player dev, though it is insane they didn't go crazy in spending on it when they decided to rebuild in 2017, it is clear they are trying to improve it to some average standard. With International, I'm not even sure if they are on that trajectory.

They’ve actually regressed on the international side, which is the frustrating / scary part.

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3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

If being your own man here isn't allowed, how was Larry Himes able to stick it out 3 years? Obviously, if he would have placated JR a bit more, he would have been re-upped, but still, 3 years, builds a 94 win team with the lowest payroll in baseball, and really set them up for a really good run, only to be squandered. If Rick could have built this team up to a 94 win team in 3 seasons, if JR dropped him, he would have no problem finding another job. One difference, Larry hit on guys in the draft, and got good value in small trades. Although it is never mentioned, Larry drafted Ray Durham in the 5th round. When is the last time the White Sox have drafted someone after the first couple of rounds that became really good? 

Marcus Semien.

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3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

If being your own man here isn't allowed, how was Larry Himes able to stick it out 3 years? Obviously, if he would have placated JR a bit more, he would have been re-upped, but still, 3 years, builds a 94 win team with the lowest payroll in baseball, and really set them up for a really good run, only to be squandered. If Rick could have built this team up to a 94 win team in 3 seasons, if JR dropped him, he would have no problem finding another job. One difference, Larry hit on guys in the draft, and got good value in small trades. Although it is never mentioned, Larry drafted Ray Durham in the 5th round. When is the last time the White Sox have drafted someone after the first couple of rounds that became really good? 

Larry Himes did one thing wrong. He didn't get along with JR. If JR doesn't like you, you're gone. I always thought it was lousy on JR s part when he badmouthed Himes relentlessly after he fired Himes. JR went on  TV and radio  and dumped all over Himes.

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1 hour ago, cjgalloway said:

I actually love it... Let's go.. I think they're all pissed and embarrassed about what happened last year.

We got hope Jerry is embarrassed, because I still think it was him who cost us Machado.

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17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Instead of hiring a guy from one of the elite organizations, the Sox hired a very green dude from the Royals.  The Getz here was ridiculous at the time and I don’t see why that doesn’t fall on Hahn.

I like Getz.  I actually like all the minor league managers as well.

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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We got hope Jerry is embarrassed, because I still think it was him who cost us Machado.

This. Hahns hand will forever be tied to sitting at a Marshall’s clearance rack vs being able to spend like a major league team needs to do 

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Just now, chetkincaid said:

I think profits are what’s most important to the White Sox. Winning is secondary. If they happen to win while making money then cool. I don’t think Hahn has near the authority people believe he has to make deals and sign free agents. Same with Kenny Williams when he ran day to day operations. And I do believe RH and KW knew from the very beginning that Reinsdorf would never sign Machado for that much so they signed his buddies and hoped another team wouldn’t beat their lowball offer. 

Just like the JR pic with Monopoly money this is a tired old saw. Reach a little higher. Sure they don't spend a lot but it's often not spent well. The evil motives are imagined and seem illogical.  JR does not want to spend a lot of money for a krappy team like his staff seems to do. 

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5 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I like Getz.  I actually like all the minor league managers as well.

You must have never seen Charlotte

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