Angels sign Rendon - 7yrs 245

[Sleepy Harold]

4 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

Yes, I was thinking that if we dont get a CF leadoff hitter with speed, Madrigal would be the next best option at leadoff. Dont expect 60 SB (as would could with Hamilton) but Madrigal could pop for may 25-30, no? And Madrigal would hopefully get on base alot. If Madrigal shows in spring he is up to his old tricks of hitting and walking, then he should make the opening day roster, especially if we dont get a Hamilton(or Hamilton himself) type player.

Hamilton has never stolen 60 bases in the majors. He got 59 in 2017 (with a sub 30% OBP), and the last two seasons he stole 34 & 22 while getting on base at less than 30%. He can't hit and doesn't get on base enough.

[Chisox378]

2 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Hamilton has never stolen 60 bases in the majors. He got 59 in 2017 (with a sub 30% OBP), and the last two seasons he stole 34 & 22 while getting on base at less than 30%. He can't hit and doesn't get on base enough.

If we already have Hamilton in Engel, why not just trust in Adam Engel to leadoff and play CF?  If things dont work out, we can pick from the farm.

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

Hmmm.interesting take... We have been waiting for Engel for years, but he hasnt been ready to hit MLB pitching. Still, I like that you are thinking, we should give Engel a look for sure if we dont sign a CF.  Engel can go get em too. Maybe he comes into spring hitting and getting on base and stealing like crazy. That would be the best scenario, because Engel is only 27.

Wait, you’re suggesting Engel isn’t ready to hit major league hitting but that Billy Hamilton is?  Hamilton is probably the worst hitter in Major League Baseball.

[Chisox378]

No, Im saying it may be of no use to sign Hamilton if we already have Engel.  Engel is terrific defensively too. Kind of a risk, but with a good farm system its worth a try and we can save the money for pitching. Here is the thing.

For Engel to stay and play at the MLB level he has to:

1)Keep up stellar D

2) Hit and get on base regularly

3)get a full time shot at leading off and stealing bases.

[Kyyle23]

 

3 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

No, Im saying it may be of no use to sign Hamilton if we already have Engel.  Engel is terrific defensively too. Kind of a risk, but with a good farm system its worth a try and we can save the money for pitching. Here is the thing.

For Engel to stay and play at the MLB level he has to:

1)Keep up stellar D

2) Hit and get on base regularly

3)get a full time shot at leading off and stealing bases.

So, bye Adam

[Chisox378]

I know, its a risk Kyyle but with a solid farm system, it may be worth it.

[Quin]

My point was that both Engel and Hamilton are fast, but suck at hitting.

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

I know, its a risk Kyyle but with a solid farm system, it may be worth it.

It's not a risk, it's an awful plan.  Engel is not going to turn into a good hitter, he has gotten multiple opportunities to show he can and he simply is not consistent enough to be a good hitter.   He is at best a fourth outfielder

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, Quin said:

My point was that both Engel and Hamilton are fast, but suck at hitting.

But it's also important to point out that Engel is a better hitter than Billy Hamilton.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

But it's also important to point out that Engel is a better hitter than Billy Hamilton.

To be fair, my 88 year old grandmother is a better hitter than Billy Hamilton.

[bmags]

So I do keep thinking about Rendon.

One thing that I like about the Grandal signing is it is playing with what the market is giving you with your team situation.

The sox have payroll flexibility to add elite talent

The team is young and malleable to this point

Take the elite talent, basically.

There will certainly be a question moving forward about salary level, but if you sign wheeler around 5/90 and Rendon at 32.5 AAv or abouts, you are still around and south of 140.

You also then either have excess capacity to trade for RF, or the extreme examples of moving Moncada to OF.

The base of the team is at such a high level at that point that you have an easier case to make with Reinsdorf that one extra compelling piece is worth going over for a year or two.

And, as many find important, you've done it with just money resources, and also have likely pushed contention into 2020 in a reasonable way. The most difficult decision will be whether ot lose control of robert/madrigal to really take advantage.

Roster, compelling:

C Grandal/McCann

1b Abreu

2b Madrigal or Moncada

3b Rendon

SS Anderson

LF Eloy

CF Robert

RF Moncada and or addition using Madrigal

Pitching staff:

Giolito/Wheeler/Kopech/Cease/Lopez/Rodon/Covey

 

that lineup has only really one possibly below avg. offensively player in madrigal and a DH of likely collins whose bat would be part time. Robert is also a risk his first year.

The pitching staff is a question mark. But I am more comfortable going year by year with pitching as long as we can soak in up to the 160mill range on a given year.

It is more interesting than we would think, but more disruptive than the lego piece addition of grabbing a RFer.

And while that thread of "would you rather have machado or 250 mill" if it instead becomes rendon that actually was a choice and my answer would be rendon.

[bschmaranz]

33 minutes ago, bmags said:

So I do keep thinking about Rendon.

One thing that I like about the Grandal signing is it is playing with what the market is giving you with your team situation.

The sox have payroll flexibility to add elite talent

The team is young and malleable to this point

Take the elite talent, basically.

There will certainly be a question moving forward about salary level, but if you sign wheeler around 5/90 and Rendon at 32.5 AAv or abouts, you are still around and south of 140.

You also then either have excess capacity to trade for RF, or the extreme examples of moving Moncada to OF.

The base of the team is at such a high level at that point that you have an easier case to make with Reinsdorf that one extra compelling piece is worth going over for a year or two.

And, as many find important, you've done it with just money resources, and also have likely pushed contention into 2020 in a reasonable way. The most difficult decision will be whether ot lose control of robert/madrigal to really take advantage.

Roster, compelling:

C Grandal/McCann

1b Abreu

2b Madrigal or Moncada

3b Rendon

SS Anderson

LF Eloy

CF Robert

RF Moncada and or addition using Madrigal

Pitching staff:

Giolito/Wheeler/Kopech/Cease/Lopez/Rodon/Covey

 

that lineup has only really one possibly below avg. offensively player in madrigal and a DH of likely collins whose bat would be part time. Robert is also a risk his first year.

The pitching staff is a question mark. But I am more comfortable going year by year with pitching as long as we can soak in up to the 160mill range on a given year.

It is more interesting than we would think, but more disruptive than the lego piece addition of grabbing a RFer.

And while that thread of "would you rather have machado or 250 mill" if it instead becomes rendon that actually was a choice and my answer would be rendon.

I thought we weren't allowed to mention Dylan Covey 'round these parts?

[bmags]

1 minute ago, bschmaranz said:

I thought we weren't allowed to mention Dylan Covey 'round these parts?

You know somehow, someway, some incredibly important game is going to happen during the next four years and Covey is going to be jogging in from the bullpen with benny hill theme song playing.

[bschmaranz]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

You know somehow, someway, some incredibly important game is going to happen during the next four years and Covey is going to be jogging in from the bullpen with benny hill theme song playing.

Good ol yakety sax Covey.

[Quin]

28 minutes ago, bmags said:

So I do keep thinking about Rendon.

One thing that I like about the Grandal signing is it is playing with what the market is giving you with your team situation.

The sox have payroll flexibility to add elite talent

The team is young and malleable to this point

Take the elite talent, basically.

There will certainly be a question moving forward about salary level, but if you sign wheeler around 5/90 and Rendon at 32.5 AAv or abouts, you are still around and south of 140.

You also then either have excess capacity to trade for RF, or the extreme examples of moving Moncada to OF.

The base of the team is at such a high level at that point that you have an easier case to make with Reinsdorf that one extra compelling piece is worth going over for a year or two.

And, as many find important, you've done it with just money resources, and also have likely pushed contention into 2020 in a reasonable way. The most difficult decision will be whether ot lose control of robert/madrigal to really take advantage.

Roster, compelling:

C Grandal/McCann

1b Abreu

2b Madrigal or Moncada

3b Rendon

SS Anderson

LF Eloy

CF Robert

RF Moncada and or addition using Madrigal

Pitching staff:

Giolito/Wheeler/Kopech/Cease/Lopez/Rodon/Covey

 

that lineup has only really one possibly below avg. offensively player in madrigal and a DH of likely collins whose bat would be part time. Robert is also a risk his first year.

The pitching staff is a question mark. But I am more comfortable going year by year with pitching as long as we can soak in up to the 160mill range on a given year.

It is more interesting than we would think, but more disruptive than the lego piece addition of grabbing a RFer.

And while that thread of "would you rather have machado or 250 mill" if it instead becomes rendon that actually was a choice and my answer would be rendon.

I'd go with moving Moncada to RF. It's a risk, but he has the tools and I feel like Madrigal would compliment the rest of the lineup well. 

The wonderful thing about this is that, depending on prospects, it gives us the possibility of having depth for the first time in forever.

[TheTruth05]

26 minutes ago, Quin said:

I'd go with moving Moncada to RF. It's a risk, but he has the tools and I feel like Madrigal would compliment the rest of the lineup well. 

The wonderful thing about this is that, depending on prospects, it gives us the possibility of having depth for the first time in forever.

The one thing that worries me about Moncada is how much maintenance he seems to need. He's had leg aches from simply running hard on the bases. The OF seems like a bad spot for him if so.

But to be clear I am also on the Rendon train, absolute pipe dream rn but the Sox should absolutely be looking to add 1 more elite bat.  Rendon being a stud and probably looking for a shorter term deal since he doesn't want to play baseball into his late 30's should be a match made in heaven for the Sox FO with lots of cash to spend. I would move Moncada back to 2nd or even play Rendon as 2B and dangle Nicky to trade for a cost controlled RF.

[Sleepy Harold]

1 hour ago, Chisox378 said:

If we already have Hamilton in Engel, why not just trust in Adam Engel to leadoff and play CF?  If things dont work out, we can pick from the farm.

Bc Engel can't hit either and should be a 4th/5th OF, not a starter on a team that's trying to win. 

[Chisox378]

29 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Bc Engel can't hit either and should be a 4th/5th OF, not a starter on a team that's trying to win. 

ok, so whats your plan?

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Chisox378 said:

ok, so whats your plan?

Um...Luis Robert in CF?

[Sleepy Harold]

44 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

ok, so whats your plan?

 

42 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Um...Luis Robert in CF?

THIS

[iWiN4PreP]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

So I do keep thinking about Rendon.

One thing that I like about the Grandal signing is it is playing with what the market is giving you with your team situation.

The sox have payroll flexibility to add elite talent

The team is young and malleable to this point

Take the elite talent, basically.

There will certainly be a question moving forward about salary level, but if you sign wheeler around 5/90 and Rendon at 32.5 AAv or abouts, you are still around and south of 140.

You also then either have excess capacity to trade for RF, or the extreme examples of moving Moncada to OF.

The base of the team is at such a high level at that point that you have an easier case to make with Reinsdorf that one extra compelling piece is worth going over for a year or two.

And, as many find important, you've done it with just money resources, and also have likely pushed contention into 2020 in a reasonable way. The most difficult decision will be whether ot lose control of robert/madrigal to really take advantage.

Roster, compelling:

C Grandal/McCann

1b Abreu

2b Madrigal or Moncada

3b Rendon

SS Anderson

LF Eloy

CF Robert

RF Moncada and or addition using Madrigal

Pitching staff:

Giolito/Wheeler/Kopech/Cease/Lopez/Rodon/Covey

 

that lineup has only really one possibly below avg. offensively player in madrigal and a DH of likely collins whose bat would be part time. Robert is also a risk his first year.

The pitching staff is a question mark. But I am more comfortable going year by year with pitching as long as we can soak in up to the 160mill range on a given year.

 It is more interesting than we would think, but more disruptive than the lego piece addition of grabbing a RFer.

And while that thread of "would you rather have machado or 250 mill" if it instead becomes rendon that actually was a choice and my answer would be rendon.

Love it! Doing something like this (or getting Betts next year) is pretty much the ONLY thing that would get the sour taste of losing out on Harper/Machado out of my mouth.

 

[bmags]

2 hours ago, TheTruth05 said:

The one thing that worries me about Moncada is how much maintenance he seems to need. He's had leg aches from simply running hard on the bases. The OF seems like a bad spot for him if so.

But to be clear I am also on the Rendon train, absolute pipe dream rn but the Sox should absolutely be looking to add 1 more elite bat.  Rendon being a stud and probably looking for a shorter term deal since he doesn't want to play baseball into his late 30's should be a match made in heaven for the Sox FO with lots of cash to spend. I would move Moncada back to 2nd or even play Rendon as 2B and dangle Nicky to trade for a cost controlled RF.

Yeah I don't think this is likely but it's interesting from a roster-building strategy.

I think we tend to underrate the impact of an elite talent like Rendon (truly elite, a 1.000 OPS addition to a lineup is insane) when discussing offseason additions because he doesn't fit neatly in. There is a gigantic drop-off in acquired production from Rendon to 2nd place. The only mentioned addition that comes close in 2020 is betts on position player side. Then on pitching side you need to be on strasburg/cole to have that kind of impact.

[TheTruth05]

49 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah I don't think this is likely but it's interesting from a roster-building strategy.

I think we tend to underrate the impact of an elite talent like Rendon (truly elite, a 1.000 OPS addition to a lineup is insane) when discussing offseason additions because he doesn't fit neatly in. There is a gigantic drop-off in acquired production from Rendon to 2nd place. The only mentioned addition that comes close in 2020 is betts on position player side. Then on pitching side you need to be on strasburg/cole to have that kind of impact.

Agreed with all of this. Rendon is the type of talent you make fit and not worry about who you have (luckily Moncada has played alot of 2b so it's a perfect fit anyway). There are few guys like Rendon who are true difference makers that when one is available for basically only money and will probably sign a shorter contract it drives me up the wall knowing we probably won't land him because 2B is already reserved...

[bmags]

1 minute ago, TheTruth05 said:

Agreed with all of this. Rendon is the type of talent you make fit and not worry about who you have (luckily Moncada has played alot of 2b so it's a perfect fit anyway). There are few guys like Rendon who are true difference makers that when one is available for basically only money and will probably sign a shorter contract it drives me up the wall knowing we probably won't land him because 2B is already reserved...

Yeah I mean just thinking about Abreu - with runners on he's got an .880 OPS, with runners in scoring position he's got a .958 OPS. Now put a guy like Rendon who was on base 42% of the time last year in front of him...the team just gets offensively so much better.

[TheTruth05]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah I mean just thinking about Abreu - with runners on he's got an .880 OPS, with runners in scoring position he's got a .958 OPS. Now put a guy like Rendon who was on base 42% of the time last year in front of him...the team just gets offensively so much better.

The lineup options would be incredible, not even Ricky could botch it (I think)