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Omar Vizquel will not return to managing in white sox system in 2020

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10 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

I could care less if the was the heir apparent.  We have major leaguers who cant catch a baseball.   He should of been up here working with them ala Ron Washington.  Whomever is working with Tim Anderson needs to be shown the door.  

Being historically good at something <> being good at teaching something. It more often means the exact opposite. 

Fun Fact: Ron Washington had the same exact same career fielding percentage at shortstop as Tim Anderson

Edited by mqr
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Apparently something is lacking with Omar. Since we don't have much exposure to his managerial and developmental skills, we have no idea. Maybe someone below him is better and they want to move up. Maybe they have some sort of issue with Omar's performance. Maybe he said or did something he shouldn't. Whatever it is, I wouldn't sweat he won't be with the organization anymore. 

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Just now, reiks12 said:

Dont get why people are so upset. He over platooned our high end prospects and isnt a big fan of analytics

Loved the bunt too.

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4 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Dont get why people are so upset. He over platooned our high end prospects and isnt a big fan of analytics

It's a name people are familiar with, that's about it.

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17 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Dont get why people are so upset. He over platooned our high end prospects and isnt a big fan of analytics

I’m more upset that he won’t be working with Anderson on his defense. Having Vizquel as a mentor would’ve been great for TA7 so of course it didn’t happen.

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2 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I’m more upset that he won’t be working with Anderson on his defense. Having Vizquel as a mentor would’ve been great for TA7 so of course it didn’t happen.

I was thinking as well he might get a job with the Sox major league staff, but who knows, maybe he isn't a wiz as an instructor. 

I really don't think this is a very big deal. 

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Tim Anderson isn't going to just get better at Shortstop by osmosis. Omar would actually have to be a good teacher, which is something we have absolutely no idea about. 

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5 minutes ago, Tony said:

We have a small sliver of the information available, but from what we do have....it's actually a refreshing move from the Sox. 

I just remember reading tweets from the those that followed Omar’s team the last few years that were so annoyed by the insane number of bunts he had the guys do.

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1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Apparently something is lacking with Omar. Since we don't have much exposure to his managerial and developmental skills, we have no idea. Maybe someone below him is better and they want to move up. Maybe they have some sort of issue with Omar's performance. Maybe he said or did something he shouldn't. Whatever it is, I wouldn't sweat he won't be with the organization anymore. 

I mean, he managed like he was trying to win and not actually develop our prospects.  If that’s the reason for the change, then I applaud them for doing something that may not look great at face value.

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37 minutes ago, fathom said:

I just remember reading tweets from the those that followed Omar’s team the last few years that were so annoyed by the insane number of bunts he had the guys do.

It was definitely an issue, but the platooning was a bigger problem.  Sheets & Rutherford were on the bench quite a bit when lefties were on the mound.  Honestly, it might be a reason they decided not to promote Walker to AA.

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Jirschele is the one with a rocket strapped to his back.  If he wasnt about 15 he'd be even higher in the org

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1 hour ago, mqr said:

Being historically good at something <> being good at teaching something. It more often means the exact opposite. 

Fun Fact: Ron Washington had the same exact same career fielding percentage at shortstop as Tim Anderson

Patrick, is that you?

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2 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

Bring him up to the MLB team and let him work with Anderson and the young players.  Nope.  Lets get rid of him so we can have more of our patented white sox who think the leather thing on their hand is to keep their hand warm and to swat at the round objects being hit at them.  

 

 

 

 

Yeah he was a great defensive player and I think he belongs in the HOF but that doesn’t mean he’s a great coach and teacher 

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But isn’t bunting simply a reflection also (as well as a personal preference)...of the fact that such strategy is exactly what they would be expected to do under Renteria?

Maybe he has been led to believe the Sox will stick it out with Renteria and wanted a faster path to the big leagues as a bench coach or third base coach elsewhere.

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Omar Vizquel was definitely more concerned with advancing in the profession than doing anything on the Player Development side for the Sox. He now gets the chance to that elsewhere. 

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Hopefully this is out with the old and in with the new...this organization needs to get less “old school” and more into the modern era. Have a feeling there probably isn’t much modern about Omar. 

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4 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I mean hes not going to bash a departing minor league coach who is just starting out, a well liked one at that. You'd only expect to see positive comments from Getz. There were numerous complaints he bunted too much and plantooned real prospects. Guessing those were the reasons.

"We just felt with where things are at, our player development system, that it was time to go separate ways"

Pretty telling this is the Sox choice though. 

The soxtalk narrative was that he was the heir apparent. Not true apparently. I believed it myself but it's pretty clear they love Jirschele too, who is at the opposite side of the spectrum.

Jirschele had his stock go up today.  I like it.

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4 hours ago, reiks12 said:

Dont get why people are so upset. He over platooned our high end prospects and isnt a big fan of analytics

That and the bunting drove me crazy. The one thing I'll give him credit for is his lineup construction was very good as well as him letting his players be very aggressive  on the basepaths/steal at will.

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For everyone painting the narrative that Omar hates analytics.  The reality is that it sounds like he was fully on board educating himself and it’s knows it’s a requirement to have that knowledge in order to get his managerial shot. 

Article from this last April:

 

I’m still learning more about the game, and how everything is run now with the whole sabermetrics thing, how do you use that and apply it to the game and still know about numbers and all this stuff. If you can balance it out with the things that you learn, I think you have a chance to be a successful manager in the big leagues someday.”

Vizquel played in an era that was not as heavily focused on analytics and advanced statistics, which took some time to adjust to when he became the manager of the Winston-Salem Dash, Chicago’s Advanced Single-A affiliate.

“You’ve got to do a lot of the percentages now,” Vizquel said. “It’s weird that now, you have a calculator right next to your lineup so you can calculate a person. That’s where the game is now. It’s evolving so much. Everybody’s doing it, even the umpires are involved with the strike zones and everything. It’s interesting to start knowing a little deeper the secrets of the game.”

 

www.wkyc.com/amp/article/sports/mlb/indians/indians-legend-omar-vizquel-hoping-to-turn-minor-league-experience-into-mlb-opportunity/95-1a10a2f5-6057-42d4-a2be-8f2df6f06c19

 

 

 

I agree with others about the bunting and benching, and that Jirschele sounds pretty good.  But Omar sounds like he actually was putting in the effort on learning and applying analytics.  I really wonder if Ricky busts out the calculator while making the lineup, or if it’s all his trustworthy gut.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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There's still a disconnect between "out with the old, in with the new" and keeping Renteria as the big league manager.

If they (FO) really are (still) strong believers in Cooper and Renteria, how the heck are they going to align that throughout their system because those two guys are so idiosyncratic in their ways.

I guess I get the "Wolverine Synergy" between Hahn and Getzie, but where does it lead to as an organizational philosophy?

Edited by caulfield12

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