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BigHurt3515

Abreu Signs 3/$50M Extension

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1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

Anyone else feel like this is a Jerry move more than a Rick move?

100% and hopefully this is coming from Jerry’s personal checkbook.  Would be really annoying if this ends up hand-cuffing in the coming years.

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5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I was saying I could see him being trade bait before and now that seems more plausible.

As for this deal, I could have lived with two years at $18M/per but damn does that third year really fuck up potential roster flexibility.

I don't really see how.

Vaughn won't be up next year, so at the earliest he is up in 2021. No matter how well he hits, I think we can assume he'll spend at least one full year in the minors.

If the White Sox didn't want to sign a DH this year, and wanted to see how Collins/McCann/Abreu/Grandal handle the position then this really doesn't change much.

McCann is gone after next year. If Collins shows enough he moves into the back-up catcher back-up DH/1B role after next year. Abreu shifts into full time DH. Vaughn moves to 1st base. If Collins doesn't show enough this year, they move on from Collins and they retain McCann as their primary back-up catcher.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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4 minutes ago, Lillian said:

With Robert, Moncada, Grandal and Jose, the Sox have the inside track on the Cuban pipeline. Maybe there will be more fellow countryman coming to the South Side, in the next few years. Perhaps that's one of the intangibles in this move. It's all part of the tradition started in the 50's, with Minnie Miñoso.

They've had this inside track since Minnie; Minnie is like the Latin Jackie Robinson.

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Minnie Minoso was such a tremendous ambassador for the White Sox for so many years.  I am sure that Jose will be as well.  The work he does with Abreu's Amigos is marvelous.

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4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't really see how.

Vaughn won't be up next year, so at the earliest he is up in 2021. No matter how well he hits, I think we can assume he'll spend at least one full year in the minors.

If the White Sox didn't want to sign a DH this year, and wanted to see how Collins/McCann/Abreu/Grandal handle the position then this really doesn't change much.

McCann is gone after next year. If Collins shows enough he moves into the back-up catcher back-up DH/1B role after next year. Abreu shifts into full time DH. Vaughn moves to 1st base. If Collins doesn't show enough this year, they move on from Collins and they retain McCann as their primary back-up catcher.

And if Abreu falls off a cliff, now we’re looking at two dead years (2021 & 2022) instead of just one.  Given our track record, there is almost zero chance they take Jose out of the DH spot no matter his performance, so if Collins or even Sheets were to break out, there is simply no spot for him.  And personally, I don’t believe the Sox view Collins as a catcher or he would have given more starts down the stretch over Castillo.

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2 steps forward 1 back.  So fucking typical of this franchise.  Jesus Christ.  There is about a 50% chance you're paying a REPLACEMENT LEVEL DH 18 million in 2022.  FFS.

Hahn sure loves lighting money on fire in FA.

Edited by chitownsportsfan
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Was there really a need to go beyond year to year? He's an older 1B and their typically isn't much of a market for aging hitters. At best, I don't mind guaranteeing the next season IF he performs at an agreed upon performance in the current season. I'm sure we'll hear about his intangibles, and his value to younger players, but this does seem unnecessary.

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Just now, spiderman said:

Was there really a need to go beyond year to year? He's an older 1B and their typically isn't much of a market for aging hitters. At best, I don't mind guaranteeing the next season IF he performs at an agreed upon performance in the current season. I'm sure we'll hear about his intangibles, and his value to younger players, but this does seem unnecessary.

There was zero fucking reason other than JR rewards loyalty, not performance.

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I think Collins would definitely be moved as a result of this if he had any value.   However, I don't see many teams giving up much for him as he hasn't lived up to his potential since college.   I think he stays in the organization as a result buy likely has a place in AAA until he starts producing at a level that earns him time in the big show.

 

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

And if Abreu falls off a cliff, now we’re looking at two dead years (2021 & 2022) instead of just one.  Given our track record, there is almost zero chance they take Jose out of the DH spot no matter his performance, so if Collins or even Sheets were to break out, there is simply no spot for him.  And personally, I don’t believe the Sox view Collins as a catcher or he would have given more starts down the stretch over Castillo.

If he falls off a cliff he falls off a cliff. It's much more likely a 31 year old catcher falls off than a 32/33 year old first baseman. There is risk tied to any post 30 MLB player, but I think the risks have been greatly exaggerated. I also think guys with his work ethic tend to have gradual declines. Konerko had 4 seasons in a row as bad or worse than the season Abreu just had before a rejuvenation his last three/four years. Abreu should feel more comfortable, and have less desire to "carry the offense" now that he is just a COG and not the COG. I wouldn't be shocked to see an uptick in production next year, honestly.

I'll disagree with your next point; the Sox won't just play Abreu if Collins or even Sheets become a superior hitter.

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11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They've had this inside track since Minnie; Minnie is like the Latin Jackie Robinson.

Agreed and this just solidifies it. It's easier now to "import" Cuban players and there will always be good prospects there. Having an inside track can't hurt.

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Just now, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Typical SoxTalk overreacting to something that’s not even a big deal. I think this was an overpay, but it’s not the end of the world like you guys are making it out to be. 

Every shit contract Hahn hands out adds up.  And he hands them out like a stay at home big diamond ring on her finger blond mom gives out oranges at 4H soccer.

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4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Hahn sure loves lighting money on fire in FA.

There is a 0% chance this was Hahn, or even Kenny's idea. 

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4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

There was zero fucking reason other than JR rewards loyalty, not performance.

Yes, how dare someone reward an employee for doing everything right and working his ass off. In the real world, this is good business. In this world, fans get pissed that players aren't treated solely as financial assets. I don't. I would hate being treated like that.

 

2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Agreed and this just solidifies it. It's easier now to "import" Cuban players and there will always be good prospects there. Having an inside track can't hurt.

Yes, and it's not just that they brought these players in - it's that they care about their assimilation, and they work hard to make them comfortable. 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Agreed and this just solidifies it. It's easier now to "import" Cuban players and there will always be good prospects there. Having an inside track can't hurt.

Your 2020 Chicago White Sox.....Conexión Cubana

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, how dare someone reward an employee for doing everything right and working his ass off. 

 

Yes, and it's not just that they brought these players in - it's that they care about their assimilation, and they work hard to make them comfortable. 

Excellent point. Thanks

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1 minute ago, turnin' two said:

Aren't you forgetting that he chews tobacco though?

As long as he doesn't vape, it's OK

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4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If he falls off a cliff he falls off a cliff. It's much more likely a 31 year old catcher falls off than a 32/33 year old first baseman. There is risk tied to any post 30 MLB player, but I think the risks have been greatly exaggerated. I also think guys with his work ethic tend to have gradual declines. Konerko had 4 seasons in a row as bad or worse than the season Abreu just had before a rejuvenation his last three/four years. Abreu should feel more comfortable, and have less desire to "carry the offense" now that he is just a COG and not the COG. I wouldn't be shocked to see an uptick in production next year, honestly.

I'll disagree with your next point; the Sox won't just play Abreu if Collins or even Sheets become a superior hitter.

I’ll be honest Ray, this is a completely lame defense and you come off as a company man when you can’t be critical of anything this front office does.  I don’t even think this is a Hahn / KW thing, but there is real risk a 34 / 35 year old 115 wRC+ DH falls off a cliff and becomes a real problem for us both from a roster & financial standpoint.  Saying otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous.

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41 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Aside from being just stuck with him as our DH for 3 years, I see a scenario where we get a shitty RF because of this.  If this doesn't hamper how much money they are going to spend fine.  It's still a terrible deal.

Spot on 

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I’ll be honest Ray, this is a completely lame defense and you come off as a company man when you can’t be critical of anything this front office does.  I don’t even think this is a Hahn / KW thing, but there is real risk a 34 / 35 year old 115 wRC+ DH falls off a cliff and becomes a real problem for us both from a roster & financial standpoint.  Saying otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous.

Bingo.  And saying "I wouldn't be surprised to see an uptick" based on a cherry picked Konerko is pretty lame as well.  I'd also say there's a good chance he gets fat and happy now that he knows he doesn't have to worry about producing and he's basically set for life given this contract and what he's already made.

 

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Aren't we really just talking about one year of potentially sunk cost, in a contract that isn't producing? Are some of you that concerned that he won't be good. over the next 2 seasons? I'm sorry, but I just don't see this as a potentially crippling deal, regarding J. R.'s finances. 

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