Sox in on Marcell Ozuna? I mean, maybe. Or not.

[CanOfCorn]

Has anyone mentioned the possibility of Kole Calhoun as a 2 year stopgap?  Decent power hitter.  Gold Glove OF.  LHB.  War is consistent and he can play CF. 

If someone has mentioned him already...never mind.

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Ryu 22 mill

Porcello 8 mill

Wacha 8 mill

or

Keuchel 18 mill

Miley 12 mill

Smyly/Salazar MILB/ML bonus - 5 mill

So you think the Sox are going to have a $150M payroll and add not a single bullpen piece, bench player or DH?  

Its not realistic man.  

[mqr]

14 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Cease is also going to be on an innings limit.  

He threw 140 innings last year, I'd think whatever limit he's on at this point would be unlikely to actually limit him. 

[bmags]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

So you think the Sox are going to have a $150M payroll and add not a single bullpen piece, bench player or DH?  

Its not realistic man.  

I also don't think they need 3 pitchers but regardless, no, I don't think they need to add a bench piece nor do I think they need to add a bullpen piece.

Also because I'm not a big fan of this pitching crop and prefer they wait a year, I'd be fine with a hodge podge grab bag of miley, wood, wacha, roark, porcello, walker, and go into next year with your new HOF right fielder, get an actual good starter, and have another year of depth to trade from.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

You could re-sign him.

Then wait a year and get him next offseason. Everyone on this board hated the idea of trading for Machado for 3 months, but loves the idea of Betts? It doesn’t make sense to give the Red Sox players for a rental that isn’t going to push you over the top.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

 

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

You could re-sign him.

If that was the plan, why would you give up anything for him just to get him 1 year earlier when they're not expected to be a top contender? 

Just sign him next year and keep the pieces for the future.

This is the part of the discussion that has never made sense to me. Trading for him does not improve your chances of signing him, and if the main argument for obtaining him assumes they resign him then they might as well just wait to sign him next year.

Odds are the Sox won't sign Betts - obviously - so trading for 1 year in a year where they're not a bonafide contender is just a waste.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, bmags said:

I also don't think they need 3 pitchers but regardless, no, I don't think they need to add a bench piece nor do I think they need to add a bullpen piece.

Also because I'm not a big fan of this pitching crop and prefer they wait a year, I'd be fine with a hodge podge grab bag of miley, wood, wacha, roark, porcello, walker, and go into next year with your new HOF right fielder, get an actual good starter, and have another year of depth to trade from.

Got it.  So trade future assets for 1 year of Mookie Betts making $30M before you're a true contender.

And then go to battle in said 1 year with Mookie Betts with a rotation of Giolito-Cease-Kopech-Miley-Porcello, with Covey filling in for Kopech the first 2 months.  

Can't see how this could wrong at all.  It would be fun to acquire Mookie Betts, but that team is .500.  

[bmags]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

If that was the plan, why would you give up anything for him just to get him 1 year earlier when they're not expected to be a top contender? 

Just sign him next year and keep the pieces for the future.

This is the part of the discussion that has never made sense to me. Trading for him does not improve your chances of signing him, and if the main argument for obtaining him assumes they resign him then they might as well just wait to sign him next year.

Odds are the Sox won't sign Betts - obviously - so trading for 1 year in a year where they're not a bonafide contender is just a waste.

Ok, sign him next year. But if you are going to sign him next year, you should just trade for him this year too and add a year of possible playoff contention plus year of watching mookie betts in RF and quite possibly a great defense at that point.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I also don't think they need 3 pitchers but regardless, no, I don't think they need to add a bench piece nor do I think they need to add a bullpen piece.

Also because I'm not a big fan of this pitching crop and prefer they wait a year, I'd be fine with a hodge podge grab bag of miley, wood, wacha, roark, porcello, walker, and go into next year with your new HOF right fielder, get an actual good starter, and have another year of depth to trade from.

Again, if you're not all-in next year then trading for Betts is an outlandish proposition.

[Capital G]

why would you even trade Sheets straight up for Betts?

We are not going to compete as we are built this year. Unless you think Betts playing w/ us this year increase the chances of him signing there's no way I trade anything of value for him.

Now, if we sign Stras/Cole + a strong DH then I would try to pull the trade bc that would place us in contention this year and if he leaves next year oh well.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

If that was the plan, why would you give up anything for him just to get him 1 year earlier when they're not expected to be a top contender? 

Just sign him next year and keep the pieces for the future.

This is the part of the discussion that has never made sense to me. Trading for him does not improve your chances of signing him, and if the main argument for obtaining him assumes they resign him then they might as well just wait to sign him next year.

Odds are the Sox won't sign Betts - obviously - so trading for 1 year in a year where they're not a bonafide contender is just a waste.

Exactly. Makes no sense unless it is something similar to that suggested Dunning, Basabe, Sheets offer AT MAX. But that would get beaten by some team so that's a moot point.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Then wait a year and get him next offseason. Everyone on this board hated the idea of trading for Machado for 3 months, but loves the idea of Betts? It doesn’t make sense to give the Red Sox players for a rental that isn’t going to push you over the top.

To be fair, there are only like a handful of intelligent people pushing for the Sox to acquire Mookie Betts.  

All the crazies on Twitter that don't know what they're talking about can be mostly dismissed.  

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Capital G said:

why would you even trade Sheets straight up for Betts?

We are not going to compete as we are built this year. Unless you think Betts playing w/ us this year increase the chances of him signing there's no way I trade anything of value for him.

Now, if we sign Stras/Cole + a strong DH then I would try to pull the trade bc that would place us in contention this year and if he leaves next year oh well.

This would require a payroll approaching $175M in 2020.  Obviously not happening. 

[bmags]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Got it.  So trade future assets for 1 year of Mookie Betts making $30M before you're a true contender.

And then go to battle in said 1 year with Mookie Betts with a rotation of Giolito-Cease-Kopech-Miley-Porcello, with Covey filling in for Kopech the first 2 months.  

Can't see how this could wrong at all.  It would be fun to acquire Mookie Betts, but that team is .500.  

You are the one putting weird restrictions around Kopech, reminder:

April has a lot of rainouts and days off that typically don't require 5 starters

Carlos rodon is also joining the staff around august

You can also do some bullpen days as get-me-overs, and there are likely some decent Minor league signees which could be decent for some starts.

I also don't believe Lopez or dunning are actually long-term pieces of core, so this is short term considerations anyway.

[mqr]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

To be fair, there are only like a handful of intelligent people pushing for the Sox to acquire Mookie Betts.  

All the crazies on Twitter that don't know what they're talking about can be mostly dismissed.  

It makes zero sense to me. If they had signed Wheeler then mayyyyyyybe it makes sense then, but that's even a stretch.

Edited December 6, 2019 by mqr

[Quin]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Huh?

So the Sox would trade for a guy who only impacts next year, and then you'd be happy that the Sox started Dylan Covey for a month + in a year they'd have to contend because they traded for Mookie for one year. Those two things don't make a lot of sense.

Look, I understand that you've decided you need to become a walking hot take, but follow the whole thread of comments and contextualize things before throwing stones.

Sox want to add SP and RF. Sure, ReyLo is gone and that sucks because I think he has potential, but Betts is an MVP, HOF level bat. You're gonna have to go add Ryu and probably someone else, but the White Sox will suddenly have a good offense. And you don't add Grandal and Betts with the intent of running a rotation of Gio and Friends. You're gonna go put money on the table for a pitcher.

Gio, Ryu, two rookies (one replacing Covey in May) and Rodon is a risky rotation. And you're throwing bonkers cash at Betts next year. But guess what, all the OF prospects are expendable for starters at this point. 

The Sox could also just go with a pure money gamble and sign Rendon and move Yoan to RF, like he's indicated he's willing to do via Ricky. But you hate that idea as well. I love prospects as much as the next guy, but after Robert, Madrigal, Vaughn, and Kopech you can start looking to deal.

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Again, if you're not all-in next year then trading for Betts is an outlandish proposition.

Okay, then we'll just say we are "all-in". Not sure what that changes.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, bmags said:

You are the one putting weird restrictions around Kopech, reminder:

April has a lot of rainouts and days off that typically don't require 5 starters

Carlos rodon is also joining the staff around august

You can also do some bullpen days as get-me-overs, and there are likely some decent Minor league signees which could be decent for some starts.

I also don't believe Lopez or dunning are actually long-term pieces of core, so this is short term considerations anyway.

So we're going into the season relying on Carlos Rodon? Hard pass.

Lopez, at worst, is a 5th starter on a competitive team who is cost controlled. He absolutely is a part of the long term picture, even if he only gets marginally better.

[Bob Sacamano]

If Betts is dismissing extension talks with an organization he has spent his entire professional career with, he isn't going to suddenly be open to discussing with a newly acquired team/after 1 year with said team.

He is 100% going to free agency.

Edited December 6, 2019 by soxfan2014

[bmags]

Just now, soxfan2014 said:

If Betts is dismissing extension talks with an organization he has spent his entire professional career with, he isn't going to suddenly be open to discussing with a newly acquired team/after 1 year with said team.

Ok then sign him when he's a free agent, but crucially before, he apparates into the free agent universe where he can never be seen again.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, bmags said:

You are the one putting weird restrictions around Kopech, reminder:

April has a lot of rainouts and days off that typically don't require 5 starters

Carlos rodon is also joining the staff around august

You can also do some bullpen days as get-me-overs, and there are likely some decent Minor league signees which could be decent for some starts.

I also don't believe Lopez or dunning are actually long-term pieces of core, so this is short term considerations anyway.

First of all, its not weird.  Michael Kopech is at most going to throw 170 innings total next seasons (AAA and MLB).  If he starts in the big leagues, he's shut down by August 1st.  If he starts in AAA, works once per week in short stints, eventually working up to 4-5 inning outings, and is called up in late May/early June - the Sox should then have him unimpeded through the rest of the season, AND they get the extra year of control.  

Also, Rick Hahn has said Kopech is starting in AAA multiple times.  Dismiss the available information to fit your Mookie Betts wishes if you so desire, but the chances of Kopech breaking camp with the team are rather small.  

[centerfieldsixers]

The Sox are not trading for Mookie Betts. There not signing Cole, Strasburg, or Rendon.

This is not a I hate the white sox post. It is reality.  Please people stop

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, Quin said:

Look, I understand that you've decided you need to become a walking hot take, but follow the whole thread of comments and contextualize things before throwing stones.

Sox want to add SP and RF. Sure, ReyLo is gone and that sucks because I think he has potential, but Betts is an MVP, HOF level bat. You're gonna have to go add Ryu and probably someone else, but the White Sox will suddenly have a good offense. And you don't add Grandal and Betts with the intent of running a rotation of Gio and Friends. You're gonna go put money on the table for a pitcher.

Gio, Ryu, two rookies (one replacing Covey in May) and Rodon is a risky rotation. And you're throwing bonkers cash at Betts next year. But guess what, all the OF prospects are expendable for starters at this point. 

The Sox could also just go with a pure money gamble and sign Rendon and move Yoan to RF, like he's indicated he's willing to do via Ricky. But you hate that idea as well. I love prospects as much as the next guy, but after Robert, Madrigal, Vaughn, and Kopech you can start looking to deal.

What is a walking hot take about finding it absurd to start Dylan Covey for a month after you went all-in trading for Mookie Betts? 

None of this scenario makes any sense. 

None of the OF prospects are netting you an impact starter. 

We just went through a rebuild, finally, and now that the end is near Sox fans want to go back to the old way of doing business; trying to win year to year with patch-work rosters driven by FA. No thanks. I'll stick to the plan and I won't trade assets for a 1 year rental in a season that isn't in their peak competitive window.

And yes, I don't like moving Yoan Moncada to RF. What a crazy thought there as well.

[mqr]

Trading for Mookie Betts is pushing all of your chips in on 2020 while simultaneously leaving the exact same holes as you had in '20 going into '21.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, mqr said:

Trading for Mookie Betts is pushing all of your chips in on 2020 while simultaneously leaving the exact same holes as you had in '20 going into '21.

And also leaves 2020 wildly short on pitching to actually be "all in", and ~$30M less to fix it.  If the Sox trade Reynaldo in a package for Mookie Betts, and actually want to go all in on 2020, they better be prepared to also pony up for Cole/Stras and another 2nd/3rd tier FA SP, thereby having a 2020 payroll north of $160M.  Otherwise none of it works.