Sox in on Marcell Ozuna? I mean, maybe. Or not.

[Greek-konerko]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

Trading for Mookie Betts is pushing all of your chips in on 2020 while simultaneously leaving the exact same holes as you had in '20 going into '21.

Guys relax.nothing will happen till Sunday at least.we will have news now at winter meetings.so enjoy your weekend.2😛

[steveno89]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

First of all, its not weird.  Michael Kopech is at most going to throw 170 innings total next seasons (AAA and MLB).  If he starts in the big leagues, he's shut down by August 1st.  If he starts in AAA, works once per week in short stints, eventually working up to 4-5 inning outings, and is called up in late May/early June - the Sox should then have him unimpeded through the rest of the season, AND they get the extra year of control.  

Also, Rick Hahn has said Kopech is starting in AAA multiple times.  Dismiss the available information to fit your Mookie Betts wishes if you so desire, but the chances of Kopech breaking camp with the team are rather small.  

Sox absolutely need to start Kopech in AAA to allow him to work his way back up to starting, and to gain the season of control they lost due to injury back. No chance they let Kopech walk in four seasons, get that fifth year of control back. 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So we're going into the season relying on Carlos Rodon? Hard pass.

Lopez, at worst, is a 5th starter on a competitive team who is cost controlled. He absolutely is a part of the long term picture, even if he only gets marginally better.

Let's look at the rotations of competitive teams:

Cleveland - worst pitcher ERA 3.79

Tampa - worst pitcher ERA 4.29

Oakland - worst pitcher ERA 4.3

Houston - worst pitcher ERA 3.98

Minnesota - worst pitcher ERA 5.12

NYY - worst pitcher ERA 4.95

Reynaldo Lopez - 5.38

So we would have the worst 5th starter of all contenting AL teams, with production most other teams filled with ML vet signings for a few million.

Irreplaceable.

[centerfieldsixers]

if your shutting him down then why have him pitch in AAA?  I rather he breaks with the team., He would be more helpful up here then down there.

[Bob Sacamano]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Let's look at the rotations of competitive teams:

Cleveland - worst pitcher ERA 3.79

Tampa - worst pitcher ERA 4.29

Oakland - worst pitcher ERA 4.3

Houston - worst pitcher ERA 3.98

Minnesota - worst pitcher ERA 5.12

NYY - worst pitcher ERA 4.95

Reynaldo Lopez - 5.38

So we would have the worst 5th starter of all contenting AL teams, with production most other teams filled with ML vet signings for a few million.

Irreplaceable.

Lopez can still get better. We're not trading him for 1 year of Betts for fuck sake.

Also 0% chance Sox could sign him during their exclusive negotiating window. Dude is deadest on testing the market.

Edited December 6, 2019 by soxfan2014

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

And also leaves 2020 wildly short on pitching to actually be "all in", and ~$30M less to fix it.  If the Sox trade Reynaldo in a package for Mookie Betts, and actually want to go all in on 2020, they better be prepared to also pony up for Cole/Stras and another 2nd/3rd tier FA SP, thereby having a 2020 payroll north of $160M.  Otherwise none of it works.  

It actually just acknowledges that 2020 is already short on pitching and instead goes after one of the best players in baseball, but your post does a good job of illustrating what much of the criticism does - it acts like $30 million evaporates instead of going toward one of the best players in baseball, who would greatly improve our offense and crucially also our defense.

And then they should sign him next year.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Lopez can still get better. We're not trading him for 1 year of bets for fuck sake.

He can also get worse.  

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He can also get worse.  

He can but I'm only trading Lopez as part of a deal for a longer term piece somewhere else. Not 1 year of a guy 100% testing the open market.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

8 minutes ago, bmags said:

Let's look at the rotations of competitive teams:

Cleveland - worst pitcher ERA 3.79

Tampa - worst pitcher ERA 4.29

Oakland - worst pitcher ERA 4.3

Houston - worst pitcher ERA 3.98

Minnesota - worst pitcher ERA 5.12

NYY - worst pitcher ERA 4.95

Reynaldo Lopez - 5.38

So we would have the worst 5th starter of all contenting AL teams, with production most other teams filled with ML vet signings for a few million.

Irreplaceable.

Awesome. Let's cherry pick an ERA stat from one year.

In 2017 the Astros won the World Series. Mike Fiers had a 5.43 FIP and a 5.22 ERA.

in 2018 the Red Sox gave 24 starts and 170 innings (5th starter spot) to pitchers that combined for a 5.2 ERA and 5.3 FIP. They won a World Series and had a historically good season.

If you think Lopez would be holding this team back and detrimental to them as a 2-3 WAR 5th starter, you are mistaken. This is all assuming Lopez gets no better, despite entering his age 26 season.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[bmags]

12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

First of all, its not weird.  Michael Kopech is at most going to throw 170 innings total next seasons (AAA and MLB).  If he starts in the big leagues, he's shut down by August 1st.  If he starts in AAA, works once per week in short stints, eventually working up to 4-5 inning outings, and is called up in late May/early June - the Sox should then have him unimpeded through the rest of the season, AND they get the extra year of control.  

Also, Rick Hahn has said Kopech is starting in AAA multiple times.  Dismiss the available information to fit your Mookie Betts wishes if you so desire, but the chances of Kopech breaking camp with the team are rather small.  

...okay, so again 

April can be covered with 4 pitchers.

There is no reason Cease could not start a full year.

Carlos Rodon will be available, and has discussed even the all star break for a return. 

Is it ideal? No. Is it that different than what the Brewers cobbled together? Or how the cardinals rode a pretty terrible back rotation to the playoffs with excellent 2nd half defense?

Would I rather that then just doing the puzzle piece roster creation with average pieces you all want? Absolutely. Great players are great because they are very good and hard to find. A Hall of Famer is available and it's not the right time to acquire him because we need a cheap 5th starter?

 

Give me a break.

Sox should be all over this. He's one of the best players in baseball. 

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Sox should be all over this. He's one of the best players in baseball. 

Available at a time and on terms that creates more questions than he answers. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by mqr

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

...okay, so again 

April can be covered with 4 pitchers.

There is no reason Cease could not start a full year.

Carlos Rodon will be available, and has discussed even the all star break for a return. 

Is it ideal? No. Is it that different than what the Brewers cobbled together? Or how the cardinals rode a pretty terrible back rotation to the playoffs with excellent 2nd half defense?

Would I rather that then just doing the puzzle piece roster creation with average pieces you all want? Absolutely. Great players are great because they are very good and hard to find. A Hall of Famer is available and it's not the right time to acquire him because we need a cheap 5th starter?

 

Give me a break.

Sox should be all over this. He's one of the best players in baseball. 

Rodon had a worse ERA than Lopez last year and a worse FIP than Lopez in 2018. So Lopez is expendable and not a part of the future, but Rodon - coming off multiple injuries - should be depended on to impact the roster and help them after the All-Star Break in a season in which they now would have to contend because they only have Betts for one year.

No, it's not the right time to acquire him because they can literally sign him next year if they want him and not give up pieces of their future. What is difficult to understand about this? If 2020 was a prime-contention year, fine but it's simply not and this would be an idiotic and rushed move for a purpose many do not understand.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

He can but I'm only trading Lopez as part of a deal for a longer term piece somewhere else. Not 1 year of a guy 100% testing the open market.

I'll trade him in a heart beat for a guy with the potential to put up a 10 WAR season.  

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Awesome. Let's cherry pick an ERA stat from one year.

In 2017 the Astros won the World Series. Mike Fiers had a 5.43 FIP and a 5.22 ERA.

in 2018 the Red Sox gave 24 starts and 170 innings (5th starter spot) to pitchers that combined for a 5.2 ERA and 5.3 FIP.

If you think Lopez would be holding this team back and detrimental to them as a 2-3 WAR 5th starter, you are mistaken. This is all assuming Lopez gets no better, despite entering his age 26 season.

I uh, don't think he's holding the sox back. I think the sox can trade him and be okay. In fact, at the end of next year, the sox may find they need to replace him if he doesnt improve.

And obviously the rebuild would be destroyed at that point.

[centerfieldsixers]

i don't think the Betts contract is the one killing Boston. Yes he is thier biggest assett, but wouldn't he demand more in return in July?  I don't see Boston giving up its season to trade Betts now for not yet ready major league talent. Bloom was told to trim 30 million off payroll. i dont think that 30 million is Betts

[ChiSox59]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

...okay, so again 

April can be covered with 4 pitchers.

There is no reason Cease could not start a full year.

Carlos Rodon will be available, and has discussed even the all star break for a return. 

Is it ideal? No. Is it that different than what the Brewers cobbled together? Or how the cardinals rode a pretty terrible back rotation to the playoffs with excellent 2nd half defense?

Would I rather that then just doing the puzzle piece roster creation with average pieces you all want? Absolutely. Great players are great because they are very good and hard to find. A Hall of Famer is available and it's not the right time to acquire him because we need a cheap 5th starter?

 

Give me a break.

Sox should be all over this. He's one of the best players in baseball. 

We're all welcome to our own opinions.  You're a smart baseball guy, and I definitely respect your opinion.

But the fact that you think we went through this incredibly painful process just to revert back to our old ways in the 11th hour is strange to me.  But to each their own.  In the incredibly unlikely event the White Sox acquire Mookie Betts, I will be VERY excited.  He is a wonderful player.  I just think it is a very short sighted move assuming the return includes significant pieces of the future - Reynaldo, Cease, Madrigal, etc. all included.  Just glad to see you've at least changed your tune from moving Cease for Betts to ReyLo for Betts.  That is slightly less horrific.  

If we can get him for Dunning + Basabe + Sheets, go get him Rick!  But we both know that ain't happenin'. 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Rodon had a worse ERA than Lopez last year and a worse FIP than Lopez in 2018. So Lopez is expendable and not a part of the future, but Rodon - coming off multiple injuries - should be depended on to impact the roster and help them after the All-Star Break in a season in which they now would have to contend because they only have Betts for one year.

No, it's not the right time to acquire him because they can literally sign him next year if they want him and not give up pieces of their future. What is difficult to understand about this? If 2020 was a prime-contention year, fine but it's simply not and this would be an idiotic and rushed move for a purpose many do not understand.

Rodon did not have a worse ERA than Lopez last year. 

[bmags]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

We're all welcome to our own opinions.  You're a smart baseball guy, and I definitely respect your opinion.

But the fact that you think we went through this incredibly painful process just to revert back to our old ways in the 11th hour is strange to me.  But to each their own.  In the incredibly unlikely event the White Sox acquire Mookie Betts, I will be VERY excited.  He is a wonderful player.  I just think it is a very short sighted move assuming the return includes significant pieces of the future - Reynaldo, Cease, Madrigal, etc. all included.  Just glad to see you've at least changed your tune from moving Cease for Betts to ReyLo for Betts.  That is slightly less horrific.  

If we can get him for Dunning + Basabe + Sheets, go get him Rick!  But we both know that ain't happenin'. 

Y'all - we did not at any point previously acquire a hall of fame player! This is not reverting to previous ways!

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I uh, don't think he's holding the sox back. I think the sox can trade him and be okay. In fact, at the end of next year, the sox may find they need to replace him if he doesnt improve.

And obviously the rebuild would be destroyed at that point.

Yeah, they could trade him and be OK if they had something to replace him. 

Even with rostering Lopez last year, the team gave 76 starts to: Omar Despaigne, Carson Fulmer, Ivan Nova, Hector Santiago, Dylan Covey, Ross Detweiler, and Manny Banuelos. 

They already need to replace those 76 starts. If you move Lopez for Betts, now the Sox need to replace 109 starts! from last year, and they haven't signed a single pitcher yet. LOL

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Rodon did not have a worse ERA than Lopez last year. 

Sorry, it was 5.19 to 5.38.

That really changes the point I was making.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Y'all - we did not at any point previously acquire a hall of fame player! This is not reverting to previous ways!

Revert back to previous ways = making short sighted moves that hamper the future success of the organization in year that was always a pipedream to compete anyway.  

But those 81 wins in 2020 with Betts will be oh so sweet when he signs a $350M deal with the Dodgers in February 2021.  

Edited December 6, 2019 by ChiSox59

[Orlando]

From an article on Tsutsugo:

 

The White Sox likely won’t attempt to sign Tsutsugo immediately, while waiting for decisions from free agents Nicholas Castellanos and Marcell Ozuna.”
 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, centerfieldsixers said:

i don't think the Betts contract is the one killing Boston. Yes he is thier biggest assett, but wouldn't he demand more in return in July?  I don't see Boston giving up its season to trade Betts now for not yet ready major league talent. Bloom was told to trim 30 million off payroll. i dont think that 30 million is Betts

I don't know that he would demand more as much as probably demand roughly the same as now, the lesser $$ required to acquire him offsets the time you don't get to play him. I also don't think he is traded.

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, they could trade him and be OK if they had something to replace him. 

Even with rostering Lopez last year, the team gave 76 starts to: Omar Despaigne, Carson Fulmer, Ivan Nova, Hector Santiago, Dylan Covey, Ross Detweiler, and Manny Banuelos. 

They already need to replace those 76 starts. If you move Lopez for Betts, now the Sox need to replace 109 starts! from last year, and they haven't signed a single pitcher yet. LOL

Well I didn't say they wouldn't sign any pitcher....

[hogan873]

20 minutes ago, Greek-konerko said:

Guys relax.nothing will happen till Sunday at least.we will have news now at winter meetings.so enjoy your weekend.2😛

This is probably the only weekend of the year when I look forward to Monday.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Y'all - we did not at any point previously acquire a hall of fame player! This is not reverting to previous ways!

Mike Trout is possibly the best player of All-Time; he's made the playoffs once in his career.

I want to win; I don't want to be happy that I get to watch Betts play for a year. I have MLB.tv, I can watch him if I want.