CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Why do we think this is a forgone conclusion he'd end up in RF? Maybe the Sox don't want to have McCann/Collins as the DH solution? Rosters will be at 26 next year and that additional player must be a position player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: Why do we think this is a forgone conclusion he'd end up in RF? Maybe the Sox don't want to have McCann/Collins as the DH solution? Rosters will be at 26 next year and that additional player must be a position player. Because we wouldn't sign Ozuna to a big deal to be our DH when that goes to Jose when Vaughn comes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: Because we wouldn't sign Ozuna to a big deal to be our DH when that goes to Jose when Vaughn comes up. Until Vaughn forces the issue, he's not a part of the big league roster yet. There are still other scenarios where he is used as a trade chip or simply does not make it. I don't think that is the likely outcome (not is that my preference for how the organization handles him), but I also don't think that you can write his name at 1B in pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: Until Vaughn forces the issue, he's not a part of the big league roster yet. There are still other scenarios where he is used as a trade chip or simply does not make it. I don't think that is the likely outcome (not is that my preference for how the organization handles him), but I also don't think that you can write his name at 1B in pen. I disagree. Vaughn is ahead of where Madrigal was at the same respective point last year in terms of WRC+ in A and A+. I think you can put his name at 1B in permanent marker. It would be beyond pathetic if they were forced to trade him for a SP. Just spend some damn money. Edited December 8, 2019 by SoCalChiSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 It would be nice to pencil a guy in at RF, and know exactly what to expect. 3 WAR a year is fine by me. Overpay, I don't care. I'm done with the AAAA revolving door. Get it done. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: Just spend some damn money. They just tried spending 125 million after spending 125 million, smart guy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, MyNamesRod said: As someone said before, ozuna hits right handed pitchers well anyway so he does help with that On a three year basis, he hits lefties and RHP almost exactly the same...uncanny. Every single number is within 10/100th’s of each other. http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/31668/type/batting3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Everybody has to hit RHP well. You really can’t play in the league if you can’t hit RHP. You don’t have to be left handed. and I don’t think it matters at all anymore to have a left handed started in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said: Ozuna doesn't hit RHP better than LHP. It's actually the opposite. His numbers from this past season may appear that way, but he only had 89 PAs for LHP. That's far too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions. For his career, he has a 126 wRC+ vs LHP and a 109 wRC+ vs RHP. Look at the last three years aggregated. Identical numbers. Edited December 8, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I love the internet. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Look at the last three years aggregated. Identical numbers. They are, but that's because 2017 is skewing it so heavily, and the lack of PAs vs LHP in 2019 makes the aggregation less of a true three year sample. I think his career figures are much more telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said: They are, but that's because 2017 is skewing it so heavily, and the lack of PAs vs LHP in 2019 makes the aggregation less of a true three year sample. I think his career figures are much more telling. Well, he’s definitely no Joc, Jose Valentin or Moncada against LHP prior to this year. He’s an everyday player, assuming he’s healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: I love the internet. Priceless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, hi8is said: They just tried spending 125 million after spending 125 million, smart guy. We don't want them to try to spend, we want them to actually spend. They can easily afford a 3/60 deal for Ryu. They could also get creative and "spend" by getting a cost controlled proven 2/3 pitcher thru offering a combination of absorbing a bad contract and some lesser mid level prospects rather than doing something stupid like trading Vaughn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 42 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: 4/60. This feels about right to me. While it's fair to ask why Ozuna would sign early if he didn't get a big offer, you could just as easily ask why would the Sox make a big offer now with so many other options available, both free agents and trade. Seems more likely that they would have made Ozuna a reaonable middle of the road type offer, and told him to let them know by the winter meetings before they start discussing other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Well, he’s definitely no Joc, Jose Valentin or Moncada against LHP prior to this year. He’s an everyday player, assuming he’s healthy. For sure. He's a guy you can pencil in for all 162 if he's healthy and not have to worry about splits. I just wanted to push back on the notion that he's better against RHP, as that has only truly been the case in 2017 since this year was a very SSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashman Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 30 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: I disagree. Vaughn is ahead of where Madrigal was at the same respective point last year in terms of WRC+ in A and A+. I think you can put his name at 1B in permanent marker. It would be beyond pathetic if they were forced to trade him for a SP. Just spend some damn money. These are 2 different types of players. One is winning Gold Gloves in the minors, the other is an undersized 1B. Maybe hitting wise, he is ahead of Madrigal, but at the end of the day, Jerry is going to play the control card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Trading Vaughn is also not advisable due to the fact we shouldn’t sniff another Top Ten pick for five years or more...1B/DH spending has always been a huge area of blown opportunity cost/inefficiency with this organization, and we need those younger, cost-controlled players to balance out the more expensive veterans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Cashman said: These are 2 different types of players. One is winning Gold Gloves in the minors, the other is an undersized 1B. Maybe hitting wise, he is ahead of Madrigal, but at the end of the day, Jerry is going to play the control card. Ofcourse he will play the control card, but that doesn't change the fact that absent injury there's no reason to think he won't be in Chicago at latest by early 2021 and realistically he should be MLB ready by late 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Cashman said: These are 2 different types of players. One is winning Gold Gloves in the minors, the other is an undersized 1B. Maybe hitting wise, he is ahead of Madrigal, but at the end of the day, Jerry is going to play the control card. In this argument, the Sox blew the pick or are selling low on him...I can’t remember the last time we traded a first rounder so early...Poreda and Royce Ring I guess, but they weren’t anywhere close to top 3-5 overall picks. Selling Madrigal after his debut year would have been similarly dubious...give him a full season (and spring training) to get his feet underneath him. Or Luis Robert, for that matter, although he was much more inexperienced than two PAC 12 players who have been playing at the highest competitive level since age 14-15. Edited December 8, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 If it's true that Wheeler's money is going to Ryu and Ozuna, that's prolly 6 wins. This is a high 80s win team, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: If it's true that Wheeler's money is going to Ryu and Ozuna, that's prolly 6 wins. This is a high 80s win team, IMO. Yes...but we are not done yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 There are not 5 teams looking to sign Marcel Ozuna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I wouldn’t pay for Ozuna, but if I did not sure why I’d give him much more than AJ pollock made last offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, bmags said: I wouldn’t pay for Ozuna, but if I did not sure why I’d give him much more than AJ pollock made last offseason. Because Pollock is never healthy...if they can get away with Ozuna and Ryu for Wheeler’s money...that would be a huge victory. Edited December 8, 2019 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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