Zack Wheeler: To the Phils (5yr 118); Sox had made BIGGER offer

[Sarava]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

He has said that and Hamels is the best guy who may be willing to take a one year deal.  I had him in my offseason plan in addition to Wheeler at 1/$17.5M.  If this doesn’t prevent them from adding one of the big four starters (which it shouldn’t), then I think it would be fantastic to add some stability to the rotation before the Winter Meetings.

I think 17.5 is too much for Hamels, but I like your thinking otherwise.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yes. I’d probably prefer Hahn move to ryu and go after betances is I constrict myself to white Sox thinking.

Id personally prefer they use their budget flexibility and add an absolute fixture like Cole or Rendon.

Oh I agree, just don’t think they want to risk coming out of this offseason empty handed and that’s a real possibility if you are forced to wait out Boras.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Ryu could probably be had for a 3/50 deal. 

 

That‘s better than 3/$40M or whatever for Kuechel IMO.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I think 17.5 is too much for Hamels, but I like your thinking otherwise.

I think you have to overpay on a one year deal and that’s about what he made last year.

[SoCalChiSox]

Forget about Castellanos. With Abreu basically having to be the DH long term, there's no place for Castellanos and no putting Robert between two butchers in the corners is not a great idea. 

We badly need the RF to be competent defensively and a lefty power guy. Pederson is a much better choice and will cost much less in salary. Leury can play vs LHP until Basabe is ready.

[Sarava]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

That‘s better than 3/$40M or whatever for Kuechel IMO.

Don't want Keuchel. I could see him being our #4 starter by August or September.

[SoCalChiSox]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That‘s better than 3/$40M or whatever for Kuechel IMO.

Yes but it's Boras so the deal won't get done till March and the FO is acutely aware of fan pressure and the cheapness angle. I don't think PR wise they can sign only Hamels from now until then on a 1 year deal. 

[BackDoorBreach]

The only way I'd want Hamels is on a 1 year in addition to Wheeler and if his salary won't be a hinderance to getting a RF.

To me going after Hamels who will cost twice as much as a Nova or Teheran type as our "6th" starter signals they want to compete in 2020.

[Sarava]

2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

The only way I'd want Hamels is on a 1 year in addition to Wheeler and if his salary won't be a hinderance to getting a RF.

 To me going after Hamels who will cost twice as much as a Nova or Teheran type as our "6th" starter signals they want to compete in 2020.

If they signed Wheeler and Hamels, then added a guy like Castellanos. Add a bullpen arm or two, and I might just call the Sox the team to beat in the central.

[BackDoorBreach]

2 minutes ago, Sarava said:

If they signed Wheeler and Hamels, then added a guy like Castellanos. Add a bullpen arm or two, and I might just call the Sox the team to beat in the central.

I would say they would be in the conversation.  The Twins completely over played their projections and lost 3 starting pitchers.  The Tribe have a fantastic staff but their lineup is not great.

I shill for Castellanos so what you just posted would be ideal for me.

Edited December 3, 2019 by BackDoorBreach

[caulfield12]

Still think they're more likely to go for a Wacha, McHugh or Pineda type (rebound candidates) than overpaying Hamels based on his 2019 and THEN putting him in the AL...especially GRF.

Just no way they add $40ish million in pitchers (not counting the bullpen need/s) in one offseason.

 

[bmags]

27 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Not a huge Gonzales fan but he isn't a high walk rate pitcher, in fact he's one of the best pitchers at avoiding walks. That said, I'm sure the Mariners are asking for something we'd be unable to pay. Wheeler + Hamels would be great.

You are right I saw his k/9 shoot you this year but still puts him in top 25

[Orlando]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Kaplan just said Cole Hamels is talking to the White Sox.

not only that, Hamels is going to be a guest on the White Sox podcast tomorrow.

Wait... seriously? Why would he be on the White Sox talk Pod?

[caulfield12]

Gonzales is not nearly as good as the M's bill him as (he doesn't have 4-6 fWAR "potential" remaining in his arm that posts increasingly diminishing velocities)...and not as bad as commonly-perceived here, with most quickly dismissing him.  He would be perfectly fine as a 4/5 back-end pitcher, but not if he was projected to a #2/3 like the White Sox did with Todd Ritchie a lifetime ago.

That said, Haniger and Gonzales are the two "high value" players the M's have that are "in flux" in terms of their futures with the team...depending on what they can get back in trade. 

Haniger, they definitely have to give him a half season to rebound, because his value's down considerably from last year at this time.

 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Wait... seriously? Why would he be on the White Sox talk Pod?

Drumming up his market...getting a dig in at Cubs' fans by teasing a move to the SouthSide.  Good for winter baseball conversation.

Almost everyone has him going back to the Phillies, who are more likely to be make one-year pitching bets with their current roster composition than be on the hook for 4-6 year commitments.

They need to be all-in, but not in a way where they can't easily tear it down (other than Harper) if they don't make the playoffs in 2020 and 2021.

[poppysox]

33 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I think 17.5 is too much for Hamels, but I like your thinking otherwise.

I agree with you.  Hamels led the MAJORS in hard hit balls at 41.2%.  Cole coupled with 1 year of Hamels at say 10 mil. show me contract I say fine.  Leading baseball in hard hit balls is a scary stat IMO.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

50 minutes ago, bmags said:

As much as I want Wheeler I do think the Sox (in addition) could greatly benefit from a sage vet since this will be a super young staff

Absolutely they would benefit from a former ace like him - I just think it could be a James Shields 2.0 situation all over again. Hamels benefitted greatly by going to the NL, IMO. He had a mediocre 2017 and terrible 2018 with the Rangers (before being traded). I think that's the version the Sox would be signing up for if they brought him in, and at age 36 for the 2020 season, I don't think we're looking at a workhorse that is going to eclipse 150 IP. I'd rather go in a different direction than buy into a guy a year too late.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

I have a feeling Wheeler negotiations will drag on for a while and hope the Sox are focused on adding their second starter in parallel, be it Wood, Gio, Roark, etc., while others are focused on the Big 3.

Also, just selfishly speaking, we need another signing announced soon to keep the stove hot.

Is it a Wood  (Alex )burning stove or Cole (coal) ?

[fathom]

Rangers met with Wheeler.  Also mentions he’s expected to pick a team this week.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2019/12/03/sources-rangers-meet-with-free-agent-3b-anthony-rendon/

[BackDoorBreach]

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Rangers met with Wheeler.  Also mentions he’s expected to pick a team this week.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2019/12/03/sources-rangers-meet-with-free-agent-3b-anthony-rendon/

They met with Donaldson and are meeting with Rendon as well.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, Perfect Vision said:

For the Sox to be competitive, they don't need to trade any of their top prospects, or even think outside the box.  Sign Wheeler.  Sign Betances.  Sign Calhoun or some other short term RF.

If Hahn wants to float a Stiever/Walker/Collins type package to try to bring in a young impact RF, I'm fine with that.  But trading Madrigal, Robert, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, etc. shouldn't even be crossing his mind right now.

I agree sort of with some of it. And I argued in the past for signing more free agents even in the non competitive window.

This is so White Sox check it: While the Sox were in the rebuilding mode prices on free agents were down down down. I was begging for the Sox to sign Moustakas and JD Martinez to take advantage of the market  Of course it didn't happen and probably for the best since our draft picks were better.

However, now what is the board here talking about ? Free agent market being manipulated to hold down prices previously but now this year getting close to the new CBA they will be skyrocketing in what year ? Well it's the year the Sox decided they were going to be big players in the Free Agency Market. The same year as everyone else doing it so no one could accuse owners of collusion .

I guarantee if you think the Grandal and Moustakas and Gibson prices were a bit higher you aint' seen nothing yet. And the Sox are right smack dab in the middle of this feeding frenzy. Not an enviable position coming out of a rebuild. So White Sox luck or is it mismanagement . Could this have been foreseen ?

[whitesoxbrad]

2 hours ago, MyNamesRod said:

What if the Sox go castellanos, hamels, and a low end pitcher? Would you guys be mad about that? Because I sure wouldn’t 

Me either, I would like to add porcello

[caulfield12]

40 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I agree sort of with some of it. And I argued in the past for signing more free agents even in the non competitive window.

This is so White Sox check it: While the Sox were in the rebuilding mode prices on free agents were down down down. I was begging for the Sox to sign Moustakas and JD Martinez to take advantage of the market  Of course it didn't happen and probably for the best since our draft picks were better.

However, now what is the board here talking about ? Free agent market being manipulated to hold down prices previously but now this year getting close to the new CBA they will be skyrocketing in what year ? Well it's the year the Sox decided they were going to be big players in the Free Agency Market. The same year as everyone else doing it so no one could accuse owners of collusion .

I guarantee if you think the Grandal and Moustakas and Gibson prices were a bit higher you aint' seen nothing yet. And the Sox are right smack dab in the middle of this feeding frenzy. Not an enviable position coming out of a rebuild. So White Sox luck or is it mismanagement . Could this have been foreseen ?

Definitely didn't anticipate this year's market if they thought Wheeler was going to be under $100 million...but any long-time White Sox fan has to have a feeling in the back of their mind that JR has known ALL ALONG that the 2019-20 market would blow up going into the union negotiations (in an effort to disprove collusion/tamping down prices for FA's).

Of course, signing Moustakas to play 3rd after they moved Moncada over there would had made little sense...because they certainly didn't have any idea at that time he would be able to play second so respectably for the Brewers.

 

[mqr]

41 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I agree sort of with some of it. And I argued in the past for signing more free agents even in the non competitive window.

This is so White Sox check it: While the Sox were in the rebuilding mode prices on free agents were down down down. I was begging for the Sox to sign Moustakas and JD Martinez to take advantage of the market  Of course it didn't happen and probably for the best since our draft picks were better.

However, now what is the board here talking about ? Free agent market being manipulated to hold down prices previously but now this year getting close to the new CBA they will be skyrocketing in what year ? Well it's the year the Sox decided they were going to be big players in the Free Agency Market. The same year as everyone else doing it so no one could accuse owners of collusion .

I guarantee if you think the Grandal and Moustakas and Gibson prices were a bit higher you aint' seen nothing yet. And the Sox are right smack dab in the middle of this feeding frenzy. Not an enviable position coming out of a rebuild. So White Sox luck or is it mismanagement . Could this have been foreseen ?

I don’t think it’s an accident Jerry is pushing to spend

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Definitely didn't anticipate this year's market if they thought Wheeler was going to be under $100 million...but any long-time White Sox fan has to have a feeling in the back of their mind that JR has known ALL ALONG that the 2019-20 market would blow up going into the union negotiations (in an effort to disprove collusion/tamping down prices for FA's).

Of course, signing Moustakas to play 3rd after they moved Moncada over there would had made little sense...because they certainly didn't have any idea at that time he would be able to play second so respectably for the Brewers.

 

A good organization could've asked Moose how he would feel about playing other positions . It's not like DH or 2nd base turned out so great last year. He also could've backed up Abreu at 1st. Paid just as much for Yonder Alonso as the Brewer did for Moose. Friends and Family plan hurt the Sox more than missing out on Machado.