Zack Wheeler: To the Phils (5yr 118); Sox had made BIGGER offer

[SonofaRoache]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Didn’t we just get Grandal by being the best offer?

4 years though. We are talking risky 5 and 6 year deals. We can't be afraid to go there if he is truly a top priority that could put us over the top. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by SonofaRoache

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

He's 35 and owed $70 million the next 2 seasons. Dead money is certainly a good possiblilty. 

Yeah because hes shown so many signs of aging... he lost almost all his velocity and has barely missed a beat. 

[ChiSox59]

10 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

meh.. Sure Ryu is the better pitcher when healthy... Sadly he's never healthy.  He has worse injury history than wheeler lol.  I'll take the potential and better health of wheeler

At double the years and more than twice the cost? 

[maloney.adam]

8 minutes ago, wegner said:

Time to pivot to Madbum?

Worst case scenario is getting totally shutout in the decent SP pool this offseason.

I think they should try to pivot to Ryu and sign him quickly before another team nabs him like the Twins than go after either Madbum or Hamels. There was an article posted by Rosenthal that said that the Sox are a dark horse for Strasburg and we may still try to pursue him but I think he will end up back with the Nationals. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by maloney.adam

[bmags]

Sign him for six, play him for three, offload him for a portion of that salary back.

Hes not physically sewn onto the field for six years.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

The trade for Greinke came at a high cost for Houston, though, which gave up three of its top five prospects according to MLB Pipeline: first baseman Seth Beer (No. 3) and right-handers J.B. Bukauskas (No. 4) and Corbin Martin (No. 5), in addition to infielder Josh Rojas (No. 22) and cash going to Arizona. Martin recently had Tommy John surgery and is out for the season.

https://www.mlb.com/news/zack-greinke-astros-trade
 

Without all the money coming from AZ, it doesn’t happen.  The Astros’ system was really down by then...none of those three guys are comparable to Giolito, Moncada, Kopech, Lopez, Cease or Jimenez.

Yeah, Bukaky is their Rutherford.  High prospect who produced nothing.  Martin looked bad in the majors.  Beer though I love.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah because hes shown so many signs of aging... he lost almost all his velocity and has barely missed a beat. 

So he won't because Ray Ray says so. God are you full of yourself. 

[Vote4Pedro]

At least this thing isn’t going to drag on forever 

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Didn’t we just get Grandal by being the best offer?

But a position player in his 30’s, and even that comes with a significant amount of risk since catchers plateau earlier than any other position.

Look no further than Mauer or Posey.

But our last deal that long was rewarded internally to Danks...which obviously didn’t end well.

[SonofaRoache]

3 minutes ago, RTC said:

It's about risk aversion.  Most of the best teams know that you have to gamble and take on a level of risk (usually in the form of contract length) that on the surface appears stupid, but the market dictates that that's the price you have to pay if you want the best players.  This organization just doesn't seem to have big enough balls.  Man, I hope I'm wrong.

I'm very disappointed in our fan base. Yesterday we were all good with 5 and 110 if it came to it. Today, we can't fathom 6 and 120. I am not a fan of overpaying players but sometimes shit happens and you have to put your big boy pants on. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not in the least. 3 pitchers over a decade plus? Compare that to Cleveland who has something like 7 or 8?

Cool so you named one team who has developed more. KC? Minnesota? Yankees? Red Sox? Cubs? Astros? And on and on

A lot of pretty good teams that never came close to developing a Sale/Quintana/Giolito set. 

Being critical of developing 3 TOR arms in a decade is nuts.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

But a position player in his 30’s, and even that comes with a significant amount of risk since catchers plateau earlier than any other position.

Look no further than Mauer or Posey.

But our last deal that long was rewarded internally to Danks...which obviously didn’t end well.

For the chicken littles, a four year deal for a 32 year old is not as risky as a six year deal for a 29 year old.

[bmags]

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

I'm very disappointed in our fan base. Yesterday we were all good with 5 and 110 if it came to it. Today, we can't fathom 6 and 120. I am not a fan of overpaying players but sometimes shit happens and you have to put your big boy pants on. 

Amen.

[SonofaRoache]

5 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I think they should try to pivot to Ryu and sign him quickly before another team nabs him like the Twins than go after either Madbum or Hamels. There was an article posted by Rosenthal that said that the Sox are a dark horse for Strasburg and we may still try to pursue him but I think he will end up back with the Nationals. 

Ryu is a big risk though. So we must pivot to Dallas. 

[ChiSox59]

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

I'm very disappointed in our fan base. Yesterday we were all good with 5 and 110 if it came to it. Today, we can't fathom 6 and 120. I am not a fan of overpaying players but sometimes shit happens and you have to put your big boy pants on. 

It’s well documented the Sox already have an offer on the table for 5/$100M+. Which is an aggressive offer. I’m sure they have some wiggle room, but at some point you have to draw the line in sand when you’re talking about a good but definitely not elite pitcher.

[mqr]

Def don’t feel great about this one anymore

[Harry Chappas]

This is last off-season all over again just earlier.   We get the Joc rumor and the leading candidate for a top free agent then everything fades away and the White Sox were at the table but in the end the cost was too much for their budget and philosophy.

The White Sox are not in on Ryu, Cole or Stras.

Carry  on.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

5 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I think they should try to pivot to Ryu and sign him quickly before another team nabs him like the Twins than go after either Madbum or Hamels.  

You do realize his agent is Scott Boras, right?  

[SoxBlanco]

3 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I'm very disappointed in our fan base. Yesterday we were all good with 5 and 110 if it came to it. Today, we can't fathom 6 and 120. I am not a fan of overpaying players but sometimes shit happens and you have to put your big boy pants on. 

Yes. Thank you. I agree 100%.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I think they should try to pivot to Ryu and sign him quickly before another team nabs him like the Twins than go after either Madbum or Hamels. There was an article posted by Rosenthal that said that the Sox are a dark horse for Strasburg and we may still try to pursue him but I think he will end up back with the Nationals. 

When has Boras ever signed a quick deal in a feeding frenzy?

Ryu might (logically enough) wish to go back to LA and will likely wait until they sign someone OR miss all their primary targets first and then Ryu suddenly becomes extremely appealing.

Boras controls Cole, Strasburg, Ryu and Keuchel.  After Wheeler signs, everyone has to come to him.

Those that don’t wish to play are left fighting over Bumgarner and Hamels.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

It’s well documented the Sox already have an offer on the table for 5/$100M+. Which is an aggressive offer. I’m sure they have some wiggle room, but at some point you have to draw the line in sand when you’re talking about a good but definitely not elite pitcher.

Yes, and move on to the next as if there are perfect gradiants or performance, and the Sox can move from the name brand to the generic.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I'm very disappointed in our fan base. Yesterday we were all good with 5 and 110 if it came to it. Today, we can't fathom 6 and 120. I am not a fan of overpaying players but sometimes shit happens and you have to put your big boy pants on. 

I presonally would give the 6th year at 120.  HOWEVER, I would understand the Sox passing on the 6th year.  I wouldn't be mad about it, even though I'd have done it

[Baron]

 

[SonofaRoache]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

It’s well documented the Sox already have an offer on the table for 5/$100M+. Which is an aggressive offer. I’m sure they have some wiggle room, but at some point you have to draw the line in sand when you’re talking about a good but definitely not elite pitcher.

That line was drawn when we identified him as our priority. This rebuild needs a pitcher like Wheeler, Cole, or Stras to get into the WS yearly contender status. Look at the BULLShits. They built a core and it hasn't worked out because they didn't bring in the big talent. They will continue their cycle of garbage until they change their way of thinking. There will be risks to take. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So he won't because Ray Ray says so. God are you full of yourself. 

He has two years left on the deal. Last year he had a 5.4 fWAR. Is he suddenly going to be a 0 WAR pitcher with dead money next year? Dick, when is the dead money coming into place when theres 2 years left and he was just a top 10 pitcher in baseball last year?

I'm full of myself because I don't think 2 years of greinke is the same dead money risk as 6 years of wheeler? My lord, make better arguments and pal.