Zack Wheeler: To the Phils (5yr 118); Sox had made BIGGER offer

[Dlsoxfan]

I am not trading Robert for anything. Just sign Wheeler and get our hearts pumping again. 

BTW somebody should change this threads topic name. Didn't we change it 150 times for Machado 

[he gone.]

Wheeler should be a nice addition if we get him. I'd do upwards of about $21mm and 5 years if necessary, however I don't think his value really is more than the $15-18mm range. The problem is that he's the best "realistic" candidate for so many teams that his contract is driven up ala Eovaldi last year. Signing someone like Wheeler and then re-signing Nova would be a great way to close the book for SP this offseason. You'd have a decent rotation and actually oculd even compete for the division in a best, best case scenario this year. 

 

The problem though is that it doesn't put you over the top for the future - Sox would still need at least one of their in-house options (Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Dunning) to take the next step forward like Giolito did and then also have Giolito take another step forward this year too. If your in-house options don't take that step forward the Sox would need to go out and acquire a Gerrit Cole. Wheeler is a nice option for regular season and even maybe an asset here and there in the playoffs as a 3rd starter. Just wish he wasn't going to be bid up so much..

 

Another name for thought: Alex Wood. Career era is great and nice ground ball pitcher. Can probably be had on a nice 1 or 2 year deal. Perfect kind of deal for the Sox IMO. Value wise and fit wise I'd almost rather have him. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodal02.shtml

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Giolito taking another step forward would make him the "best pitcher in baseball" good. He was a top 6 pitcher in WAR/rate last year. I think Giolito can duplicate last year, with a few more innings, over the next few years and the Sox would be ecstatic. 

[Perfect Vision]

For the Sox to be competitive, they don't need to trade any of their top prospects, or even think outside the box.  Sign Wheeler.  Sign Betances.  Sign Calhoun or some other short term RF.

If Hahn wants to float a Stiever/Walker/Collins type package to try to bring in a young impact RF, I'm fine with that.  But trading Madrigal, Robert, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, etc. shouldn't even be crossing his mind right now.

[SpringfieldFan]

Just now, Perfect Vision said:

For the Sox to be competitive, they don't need to trade any of their top prospects, or even think outside the box.  Sign Wheeler.  Sign Betances.  Sign Calhoun or some other short term RF.

If Hahn wants to float a Stiever/Walker/Collins type package to try to bring in a young impact RF, I'm fine with that.  But trading Madrigal, Robert, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, etc. shouldn't even be crossing his mind right now.

...especially when you still have that Machado/Harper money

[SonofaRoache]

16 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

For the Sox to be competitive, they don't need to trade any of their top prospects, or even think outside the box.  Sign Wheeler.  Sign Betances.  Sign Calhoun or some other short term RF.

If Hahn wants to float a Stiever/Walker/Collins type package to try to bring in a young impact RF, I'm fine with that.  But trading Madrigal, Robert, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, etc. shouldn't even be crossing his mind right now.

It's hard to sign players when free agency broke. 

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

It's hard to sign players when free agency broke. 

It shouldn't be. Pay them what they're worth and take advantage of the fact that there's no one over-bidding guys.

[HOFHurt35]

I'm about to throw my laptop across the room if I continue to read about bringing Nova back.  Enough with the roster clogging patch crap.    Even if it's to complement a Wheeler signing.     

 

 

[Wanne]

1 hour ago, Dlsoxfan said:

I am not trading Robert for anything.

You won't have to worry about that....or trading Vaughn or Madrigal either. Hahn would be roasted if he spent all this time amassing young talent only to dump them in Theoesque fashion for an older asset(s).

[BackDoorBreach]

29 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I'm about to throw my laptop across the room if I continue to read about bringing Nova back.  Enough with the roster clogging patch crap.    Even if it's to complement a Wheeler signing.     

 

 

They are going to have at least 7 SP on the roster in 2021.  Guys like Nova will take a 1 year deal, since that's all we need for 2020. 

[mqr]

31 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I'm about to throw my laptop across the room if I continue to read about bringing Nova back.  Enough with the roster clogging patch crap.    Even if it's to complement a Wheeler signing.     

 

 

Cool so when someone get's hurt, you want to see Despaigne again?

[ron883]

5 minutes ago, mqr said:

Cool so when someone get's hurt, you want to see Despaigne again?

Nova was worth 2 fWAR last year 🤷 dude can eat up innings. 

[HOFHurt35]

11 minutes ago, mqr said:

Cool so when someone get's hurt, you want to see Despaigne again?

Why?  It doesn't have to be some washed up AAAA scrub.  

Maybe it's time to push the up the clock on your better A, AA guys who are performing well at the time and you need a guy to fill in here for a couple weeks.   Maybe you'll un-tap  a capable ML pitcher in the process. 

The problem with veteran patches like Nova is that once you have them, this franchise doesn't cut them lose when they aren't cutting it.   Sadly, it's their way of doing business.  They will get all the use they can get from an old broom. 

 

[mqr]

Just now, HOFHurt35 said:

Why?  It doesn't have to be some washed up AAAA scrub.  

Maybe it's time to push the up the clock on your better A, AA guys who are performing well at the time and you need a guy to fill in here for a couple weeks.   Maybe you'll un-tap  a capable ML pitcher in the process. 

The problem with veteran patches like Nova is that once you have them, this franchise doesn't cut them lose when they aren't cutting it.   Sadly, it's their way of doing business.  They will get all the use they can get from an old broom. 

 

You need someone to hold the place of Kopech and Rodon that could be easily disposed. Nova is disposable, and pretty solid on top of it. 

[HOFHurt35]

Just now, mqr said:

You need someone to hold the place of Kopech and Rodon that could be easily disposed. Nova is disposable, and pretty solid on top of it. 

1) There is no such thing as disposable for the Sox.    2)  Nova is not solid.    Don't get fooled by his garbage time performance the 2nd half of the season.    The guy doesn't miss bats and his WHIP is trash, especially when pitching in the AL.   That's a bad recipe for a terrible defensive team.  

[pcq]

24 minutes ago, mqr said:

Cool so when someone get's hurt, you want to see Despaigne again?

Nova is needed for innings and he did ok. We should have a system to provide guys like him but we have not done so. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

1) There is no such thing as disposable for the Sox.    2)  Nova is not solid.    Don't get fooled by his garbage time performance the 2nd half of the season.    The guy doesn't miss bats and his WHIP is trash, especially when pitching in the AL.   That's a bad recipe for a terrible defensive team.  

I don't know how Tim is going to bounce back, but it's going to be hard to consider them a "terrible defensive team" next year.

They'll have a very good defensive 3rd baseman (top 5 last year), an elite defensive 2nd baseman (Madrigal), a very good defensive catcher, a very good defensive CF'er, and the talent at SS to be above average to good at the position. If Tim shows some consistency next year, you're talking about having ++ defenders at every important defensive positions (SS, CF, Catcher, 2nd and 3rd). LF and RF could be really bad, and 1st base won't be good until Abreu is DH'ing full time but with McCann and Grandal playing some over there it should be better.

[BamaDoc]

2 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

Another name for thought: Alex Wood. Career era is great and nice ground ball pitcher. Can probably be had on a nice 1 or 2 year deal. Perfect kind of deal for the Sox IMO. Value wise and fit wise I'd almost rather have him. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodal02.shtml

Wood hardly pitched last year due to a back injury.  He tried coming back later in the year and was shut down due to a back injury.  He is absolutely no sure thing to be ready at the start of the year when he would be needed most.  Maybe as a #6-7 on a cheap incentive laden contract but I think it would be foolish to count on him and we need some people you can count on to avoid running out the trash that occurred last year.

[hi8is]

I don’t think there are any players I would trade Luis Robert for right now considering our roster and farm.

[hi8is]

Also, wake me up when it’s next week.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, hi8is said:

Also, wake me up when it’s next week.

I'd trade him for this guy:

 

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'd trade him for this guy:

 

I wouldn't.  If we want to spend that much money, just spend it on Betts next year.  I'd rather have the combination of Robert and Betts than Trout.

[wegner]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'd trade him for this guy:

 

If we still have his rights, I would trade Despaigne for that outfit.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

8 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I wouldn't.  If we want to spend that much money, just spend it on Betts next year.  I'd rather have the combination of Robert and Betts than Trout.

You wouldn't trade Luis Robert for Mike Trout straight up? Say what? 

"Just spend it on Betts?" Betts is very good; he's still significantly worse than Mike Trout.

If the Angels called and offered the Sox Trout for Robert today, and the Sox rejected, it that would be worthy of changing fanhoods. 

Trout might end up as the greatest of all-time - if not that, then in the top 5. I'd trade Madrigal and Robert for Trout.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[SoCalChiSox]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You wouldn't trade Luis Robert for Mike Trout straight up? Say what? 

"Just spend it on Betts?" Betts is very good; he's still significantly worse than Mike Trout.

If the Angels called and offered the Sox Trout for Robert, today and the Sox rejected it that would be worthy of changing fanhoods. 

Trout might end up as the greatest of all-time - if not that, then in the top 5. I'd trade Madrigal and Robert for Trout.

Trout has a 400+ million contract we would have to absorb. The latter half of it will be bad even if he is still a decent player and Robert is cost controlled for 7 years which means we get practically all his 20s which will be his prime years. 

So no.....I wouldn't trade Robert for Trout.