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Zack Wheeler: To the Phils (5yr 118); Sox had made BIGGER offer

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1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I sure hope not.  Would be such a bad long term play.  

RF should 100% be a short term solution at this point imo.

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Just now, bmags said:

this is a false choice, honestly. How many WS teams aside from the white sox had playoff islands surrounding that year? 

I definitely phrased that poorly. I don't think it's an either or scenario and I'm willing to overpay a bit for Wheeler. Just saying that in a hypothetical where you had to choose one or the other I'll take consistent playoffs over a one and done title. Agree it doesn't have much relevance to a potential Wheeler contract though.

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Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I sure hope not.  Would be such a bad long term play.  

What other options do they have? Trade for 1 year of Joc Pederson in an attempt to get into the outragous bidding war for Mookie Betts next off season? We all know how that will end.

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1 minute ago, cjgalloway said:

no sorry. 10 years playoff, lost everytime, 0 world series.

I think a fair comparison is one WS championship and 3 losing seasons after, OR 0 championships and 5 playoff runs that end in no championship. This is because if you are good enough to win a title, there is no reason you can't compete after. Remember, we competed in 2006 and 2008. So we didn't just win one title and then completely flop. 

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Here is the deal, it is Wheeler or nothing.  What we are forgetting is that payroll has been historically low the past few years, all so that "later we can have seats at the table".  This means that they should be able to have MORE than a league average payroll.  

So, why are people edgy?  Because the White Sox should at the very least be players in the Strasburg market---be we all know---in our heart of hearts that they won't be---even though they SHOULD be. 

Edited by MysterySource5000

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4 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

no sorry. 10 years playoff, lost everytime, 0 world series.

What I'm saying is I'd much rather keep the near future in balance with the now, rather than go balls to the wall for 1-2 years knowing your probably fucked after.

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Just now, OmarComing25 said:

I definitely phrased that poorly. I don't think it's an either or scenario and I'm willing to overpay a bit for Wheeler. Just saying that in a hypothetical where you had to choose one or the other I'll take consistent playoffs over a one and done title. Agree it doesn't have much relevance to a potential Wheeler contract though.

Yeah, I guess what I'm annoyed by is the idea that making sure we are competitive in years 6-10 of this decade is so much more important than ensuring we are competitive in years 1-5.

We still have quite a bit of ground to make up. And players like Robert with swing and miss may well not be amazing their first year. I would also just like us to get some elite pieces, and then play around the value margins after this. Is wheeler elite? No, but I do think he'll be playoff starting pitcher and we desperately need one, and they are hard to find. That the third best pitcher in this offseason feels like one is a benefit.

Ryu obviously can be that guy but he's a russian roulette FA in that he either plays and is good or just...doesn't exist.

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9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

When is the last time the Sox went out and signed a top 5 free agent - who was arguably the best position player fit on the market for the org - to a record breaking contract by outbidding their competition before Thanksgiving?  

Adam Dunn. Literally even before Thanksgiving. 

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2 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said:

What other options do they have? Trade for 1 year of Joc Pederson in an attempt to get into the outragous bidding war for Mookie Betts next off season? We all know how that will end.

This is where I refuse to align my expectations to just what sox have made themselves capable of to what they should be capable of.

They absolutely have the room to go after mookie betts next year even if they signed Wheeler. They choose not to. But they choose not to, and then weirdly also choose not to play in international, and have not brought in nearly enough accountability into PD and scouting.

So...yes I'm not going to just say, yay! Castellanos! Our decade is solved!

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Adam Dunn. Literally even before Thanksgiving. 

You just made me puke in my mouth a little. 

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10 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I'm also wondering if the Sox miss out on Wheeler, do they pivot hard to RF? All in on Castellanos?

If they miss out on Wheeler, they'll act shocked, and let the fanbase know they made what they felt was the "best" offer.

79142327_10162582266235243_8112356918997024768_o.jpg

Edited by Charlie Haeger's Knuckles
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1 minute ago, bmags said:

Yeah, I guess what I'm annoyed by is the idea that making sure we are competitive in years 6-10 of this decade is so much more important than ensuring we are competitive in years 1-5.

Is it wrong to try and consider them equally?  Split being more like, 1-3 and 4-whenever

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Just now, mqr said:

What I'm saying is I'd much rather keep the near future in balance with the now, rather than go balls to the wall for 1-2 years knowing your probably fucked after.

This only happens in basketball when you sign a star like Lebron or Durant. In baseball, if you win a title, chances are you had good years surround that title. How many teams in the last 25 years have won a title and were irrelevant around that title? I can only think of maybe the Marlins. 

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1 minute ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

If they miss out on Wheller, they'll act shocked, and let the fanbase know they made what they felt was the "best" offer.

79142327_10162582266235243_8112356918997024768_o.jpg

Hahhnnnn...you dimwit!!!

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33 minutes ago, raBBit said:

I think a lot of stuff is public at this point. Seems to be between the Sox, Reds and Phillies and wrapping up soon. I fear the Reds more than the Phillies. Sox are talking a big game to Wheeler but are cautiously optimistic. They want to stay guarded after last year which is understandable but they are not operating like they are known to in the past. They put together a great presentation and a market-competitive offer. They see it as they basically put the ball in Wheeler's court because Sox don't want to play agent-chicken with him. We'll see how crazy the Reds want to get.

While I think the Sox obviously handled the Machado situation very poorly last year, I agreed with them not dipping into the next tier of free agents after missing out on Harper/Machado. They should have been on short term, flippable guys and 26-year-old-studs. I was fine with that strategy but they just whiffed. This year is different because whether they convert on Wheeler or not, they are working on multiple fronts (multiple trades, multiple other FAs).

I think it's going to be an exciting offseason either way but Sox definitely want to convert on Wheeler here. He's kind of in a tier of his own so I'll be interested to see how they pivot in the starting pitching market.

Tier A: Cole, Stras

Tier B: Wheeler

Tier C; MadBum, Ryu

@raBBit does this imply they met with wheeler? We've all seen them linked in the media, but the only team I have seen reported to meet with him has been the rangers, even if they are now out.

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33 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

He doesn’t sound very confident. Honestly, I dont either. The White Sox don’t win bidding wars. They have a set price Jerry feels comfortable with, and will not go beyond it. 

We all know how this goes. White Sox lose out, news is released that their offer had some goofy deferred payment or performance related stipulation that didn’t guarantee as much money. 
 

Honestly, don’t even fool the fanbase with Cole and Strasburg if you miss out on Wheeler. 

No offense to Rabbit, but who cares? 

He's not involved in these negotiations and the Sox are not the one leaking like a sieve right now. One thing I actually believed Rick on this off-season was that the organization was going to STFU.

All we know is the Sox, reportedly, had the top offer but were willing to go higher if necessary - that was reported yesterday. The Phillies have clearly pushed the price up and the ball is now in the Sox court; we'll see what happens.

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1 minute ago, mqr said:

Is it wrong to try and consider them equally?  Split being more like, 1-3 and 4-whenever

yes because we have so little information about years 6-10. CBA, revenue, potential farm system, player performance, team holes, etc.

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1 minute ago, mqr said:

Is it wrong to try and consider them equally?  Split being more like, 1-3 and 4-whenever

Yes it is wrong and you know why? Because Moncada, Giolito, Anderson, and others are only present in years 1-4 or 1-5. 

We already have guys that should be genuinely elite talent in this org and the clock is now ticking on them. If we don't make the playoffs in years 1-2, we are talking about trading those guys and punting on years 3-4 as additional rebuilding years in order to get anything out of years 5-8.

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6 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said:

What other options do they have? Trade for 1 year of Joc Pederson in an attempt to get into the outragous bidding war for Mookie Betts next off season? We all know how that will end.

Find a stop gap RF for a year.  Joc is an option.  David Peralta is an option.  Kole Calhoun is an option.  There are others.

With Abreu in the fold for three more years for sure now, signing Castellanos locks in one of, if not THE, worst OF defense in the league.  With a young pitching staff, that is a just a horrible situation.

Trade spare parts for a 1 year stop gap, or sign a guy on 1 year deal.  There are several (in addition to Betts) high end RF FA next offseason.  Fill that gap long term then.  

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Phillies being involved is not good news. If they want the guy as much as the White Sox do, they’ll absolutely be willing to pay more. 

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I think that the Sox almost have to be ready to be the stupid team and go a 6th year on Wheeler. Hahn declared his shopping list of 2 SPs... unless they plan on going all-in for Cole or Strasburg than Wheeler is a must-have. You can't sell this fanbase on one of Ryu and Bumgarner and then one of Hamels or Nova as your "2 SPs". All we're asking for is a top 3. We're being reasonable fans, FFS!

Wheeler at 6 years is still more comfortable than Cole or Stras at 7+.

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There’s a decent likelihood the Phillies can’t get past Washington and Atlanta again next year, even with Wheeler.

Other than Harper and Hoskins, the core of their offense is comprised of veterans who are aging/declining...they might have one run in them this season, but it’s not like they’re positioned so well for the future.

The odds are still pretty decent (at least 50/50) that one of Rendon/Strasburg ends up staying in DC.

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