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Zack Wheeler: To the Phils (5yr 118); Sox had made BIGGER offer

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7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Adam Dunn. Literally even before Thanksgiving. 

Fair enough.  Almost a decade ago now, and obviously things have changed significantly since then leading to the narratives that we're discussing but that is a fair signing to comp to Grandal. 

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3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Find a stop gap RF for a year.  Joc is an option.  David Peralta is an option.  Kole Calhoun is an option.  There are others.

With Abreu in the fold for three more years for sure now, signing Castellanos locks in one of, if not THE, worst OF defense in the league.  With a young pitching staff, that is a just a horrible situation.

Trade spare parts for a 1 year stop gap, or sign a guy on 1 year deal.  There are several (in addition to Betts) high end RF FA next offseason.  Fill that gap long term then.  

Spend the $$ they save this off season on Springer?

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Just now, bmags said:

This is where I refuse to align my expectations to just what sox have made themselves capable of to what they should be capable of.

They absolutely have the room to go after mookie betts next year even if they signed Wheeler. They choose not to. But they choose not to, and then weirdly also choose not to play in international, and have not brought in nearly enough accountability into PD and scouting.

So...yes I'm not going to just say, yay! Castellanos! Our decade is solved!

That is what is the frustrating part of this whole process. The White Sox have netted tremendous margins over the last 3 years during this rebuild, yet they refuse to pay top dollar for the big fish. It bothers me that they are not linked to Cole and Strasburg. I really loved the Grandal signing. And I do appreciate that they are in on Wheeler, but whatever happened to "White Sox deserve nice things too"?  Go out and spend the damn money!!! Outbid these other knuckleheads. Get the best guys available!! Stop pretending to be a low market team!

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1 minute ago, South Sider said:

I think that the Sox almost have to be ready to be the stupid team and go a 6th year on Wheeler. Hahn declared his shopping list of 2 SPs... unless they plan on going all-in for Cole or Strasburg than Wheeler is a must-have. You can't sell this fanbase on one of Ryu and Bumgarner and then one of Hamels or Nova as your "2 SPs". All we're asking for is a top 3. We're being reasonable fans, FFS!

Wheeler at 6 years is still more comfortable than Cole or Stras at 7+.

Disagree to be honest. Especially on Cole. 

Look at how Scherzer has worked out for the Nationals. Elite talent is elite talent. If you can get it, you do it. 

I think that Wheeler at 6 years is way too risky. If you have to go 6 years on Wheeler, I'd rather spend the extra money on Cole/Strasburg. 

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Just now, GreatScott82 said:

That is what is the frustrating part of this whole process. The White Sox have netted tremendous margins over the last 3 years during this rebuild, yet they refuse to pay top dollar for the big fish. It bothers me that they are not linked to Cole and Strasburg. I really loved the Grandal signing. And I do appreciate that they are in on Wheeler, but whatever happened to "White Sox deserve nice things too"?  Go out and spend the damn money!!! Outbid these other knuckleheads. Get the best guys available!! Stop pretending to be a low market team!

They're not pretending. They are right on the border of a small and mid market team. 

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2 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

piping hot news fresh off the stove from bob!

I'm out at 6 years. At some point, common sense has to take over. 

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Disagree to be honest. Especially on Cole. 

Look at how Scherzer has worked out for the Nationals. Elite talent is elite talent. If you can get it, you do it. 

I think that Wheeler at 6 years is way too risky. If you have to go 6 years on Wheeler, I'd rather spend the extra money on Cole/Strasburg. 

Actually, I disagree too.

I meant to mention that in the Sox likely frame of mind, that is probably what they are thinking, which is why it already seems like a foregone conclusion that they will not be players for Strasburg or Cole.

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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

They're not pretending. They are right on the border of a small and mid market team. 

According to Forbes, the White Sox are right at #14 in profit value. That screams more mid market than low market to me. 

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3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Disagree to be honest. Especially on Cole. 

Look at how Scherzer has worked out for the Nationals. Elite talent is elite talent. If you can get it, you do it. 

I think that Wheeler at 6 years is way too risky. If you have to go 6 years on Wheeler, I'd rather spend the extra money on Cole/Strasburg. 

Yeah I'd much rather be 8 years on cole than 6 on wheeler. Honestly same with stras.

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Hard to gauge the pulse on Soxtalk with the Wheeler wishing. How many people here are moving to Nashville if they fail to convert?

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7 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Phillies being involved is not good news. If they want the guy as much as the White Sox do, they’ll absolutely be willing to pay more. 

I remember when Sox fans were so worried because the Phillies were the "new front runner" for Machado. Turned out they didn't beat the Sox or the Padres offer. 

Phillies are a lot of bluster. They may get this done, but this is typical Philly operations. They said they wouldn't exceed their internal valuations last year, and I don't see that changing.

Phillies may sign him but I worry more about the Reds.

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16 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think a fair comparison is one WS championship and 3 losing seasons after, OR 0 championships and 5 playoff runs that end in no championship. This is because if you are good enough to win a title, there is no reason you can't compete after. Remember, we competed in 2006 and 2008. So we didn't just win one title and then completely flop. 

I think most of us agree 5 years at 110 is fine and reasonable and we will all be mad if we don't win that... But fuck it.. Offer 6 years, 120 million.  Literally 10 million more for his age 34 season.  Ivan Nova just made 9.  Scrub pitchers get 5-10. 

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

Yeah I'd much rather be 8 years on cole than 6 on wheeler. Honestly same with stras.

^^^^

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Just now, GreatScott82 said:

According to Forbes, the White Sox are right at #14 in profit value. That screams more mid market than low market to me. 

I mean forbes valuations are trash but sox fans and illinois residents have subsidized reinsdorf's fortune over the years and the least he could do is throw some of it into the entertainment bucket for us proles instead of passing it down to his kids to mismanage the bulls.

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1 minute ago, GreatScott82 said:

According to Forbes, the White Sox are right at #14 in profit value. That screams more mid market than low market to me. 

I don't know what profit value means, but you're correct that they're #14 in total franchise value, but per the 2019 numbers they were #6 in profitability. 

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But it doesn't matter if we would rather have 8 years of Cole or Starsburg than Wheeler for 6. 

The facts are facts, as Steve Stone has already relayed the company line, they will not be in on Cole and Strasburg. 

I agree---probably wiser to go for the big two if Wheeler is escalating that much, but that is not a real world option as the Sox won't do it, not that they cannot do, they just won't.

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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I remember when Sox fans were so worried because the Phillies were the "new front runner" for Machado. Turned out they didn't beat the Sox or the Padres offer. 

Phillies are a lot of bluster. They may get this done, but this is typical Philly operations. They said they wouldn't exceed their internal valuations last year, and I don't see that changing.

Phillies may sign him but I worry more about the Reds.

How much did they pay for Harper?

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Just now, bmags said:

I mean forbes valuations are trash but sox fans and illinois residents have subsidized reinsdorf's fortune over the years and the least he could do is throw some of it into the entertainment bucket for us proles instead of passing it down to his kids to mismanage the bulls.

But we act as if we are a low market. That's the issue.

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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I remember when Sox fans were so worried because the Phillies were the "new front runner" for Machado. Turned out they didn't beat the Sox or the Padres offer. 

Phillies are a lot of bluster. They may get this done, but this is typical Philly operations. They said they wouldn't exceed their internal valuations last year, and I don't see that changing.

Phillies may sign him but I worry more about the Reds.

They got Harper lol

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