Jonathan Villar traded to the Marlins

[bmags]

Padres should give him a look.

[ChiSox59]

9 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Who then? Keep in mind he's not a 4 win player unless he's playing SS. Projected 97 wRC+ via Steamer. And he's a one year player and costs $10M. Who ya got?

I think the Twins could be potentially be interested.  Could play any of the IF positions for them.  Sano likely going to move to 1B, Polanco is not a good SS and Arraez is not an everyday 2B defensively. Gets a tad crowded with Gonzalez, but I could see a fit there.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

13 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said:

 

This. Its embarrassing for the game when shit like this happens. Villar is definitely not someone who should be let go because he's owed 10 million.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[pcq]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This. Its embarrassing for the game when shit like this happens. Villar is definitely not someone who should be let go because he's owed 10 million.

Interesting comment. Someone will take him but maybe for a little less. We need an IF but again the price goes against budgetary concepts unless he is starting. The O's are working on the cheap which is the main problem. They don't really compete in their division. 

[ron883]

46 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah I think so, his bat is major league ready.  Unless they want him working on swing changes to generate more power (which I don’t think is the case) there is zero reason for him to be down in AAA once the service time manipulation is complete.

You gotta keep him down until the super 2 deadline

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

11 minutes ago, pcq said:

Interesting comment. Someone will take him but maybe for a little less. We need an IF but again the price goes against budgetary concepts unless he is starting. The O's are working on the cheap which is the main problem. They don't really compete in their division. 

10 million isnt expensive even if you think villar is only worth half of his WAR last year.

[SCCWS]

30 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

10 million isnt expensive even if you think villar is only worth half of his WAR last year.

I agree but then find it strange they couldn't move him in a trade. Maybe the 410 Mil + a prospect was the turn-off. 

[michelangelosmonkey]

41 minutes ago, pcq said:

Interesting comment. Someone will take him but maybe for a little less. We need an IF but again the price goes against budgetary concepts unless he is starting. The O's are working on the cheap which is the main problem. They don't really compete in their division. 

I think Baltimore won the most games in the AL from 2012-2016, won their division once and went to the playoffs three times...so they do compete in their division, just not in a rebuild.   I think what they are doing makes complete sense...like I believe in what the White Sox are doing.  You don't want to pay a guy $10 million dollars a year, who won't be in your next contending window, and will possible cost you a better draft pick by being good.    

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, SCCWS said:

I agree but then find it strange they couldn't move him in a trade. Maybe the 410 Mil + a prospect was the turn-off. 

Why trade for him when you know the organizatio is cheap as fuck and you might get a chance at him for free? Obviously run the risk of someone else taking him, but better than giving up an asset for him.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think Baltimore won the most games in the AL from 2012-2016, won their division once and went to the playoffs three times...so they do compete in their division, just not in a rebuild.   I think what they are doing makes complete sense...like I believe in what the White Sox are doing.  You don't want to pay a guy $10 million dollars a year, who won't be in your next contending window, and will possible cost you a better draft pick by being good.    

 

You dont give good players away for nothing just because you're rebuilding. That philosophy hurts the game. 

[michelangelosmonkey]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You dont give good players away for nothing just because you're rebuilding. That philosophy hurts the game. 

Ok...that's fair.  Even a trade to someone for nothing...say a 17 year old Dominican shortstop that wasn't even listed in the top 30 of the International free agent signing  might turn out to get you a useful piece for the future.  

[TaylorStSox]

Seems like a pretty interesting case of the real world not valuing him nearly as much as the fantasy world. I like him, but he's not a good fit for the Sox. 

[zisk]

5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Seems like a pretty interesting case of the real world not valuing him nearly as much as the fantasy world. I like him, but he's not a good fit for the Sox. 

Yes he is. Start him at 2B with Leury in RF. When Robert gets here, we'll have a Legit MLB at every position. If Villar has a good year, you won't have to depend on 

Madrigal as much to contend next year. If Madrigal is good right away, move Villar to RF. Odds are he will out hit Leury. 10 million is cheap if it makes the Sox a 

playoff contender next year.

[TaylorStSox]

1 minute ago, zisk said:

10 million is cheap if it makes the Sox a 

playoff contender next year.

He won't. 

[iWiN4PreP]

I agree pretty much with everything @Look at Ray Ray Run has been posting here.

The other side of the argument is that for 10 million, is J. Villar really worth it? When you really break it down is he worth 10 million? I think that's a poor thing to consider. Villar is arguably not worth the full 10 million (maybe he is, idk). But he damn sure is close to that number if hes putting up 4.0 WAR last year. Further, this is a One-year contract right now if im reading it correctly.

Looking at this from the Orioles perspective, this is dog shit. If I was an orioles fan, I'd be pretty pissed. I GET that getting him off the team is the right move. You don't want to win. But not like this. Hold him for a few months... if he produces then you get a really nice trade back. If he doesn't, then well, you are losing which is what you want.

 

[oldsox]

10 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I agree pretty much with everything @Look at Ray Ray Run has been posting here.

The other side of the argument is that for 10 million, is J. Villar really worth it? When you really break it down is he worth 10 million? I think that's a poor thing to consider. Villar is arguably not worth the full 10 million (maybe he is, idk). But he damn sure is close to that number if hes putting up 4.0 WAR last year. Further, this is a One-year contract right now if im reading it correctly.

Looking at this from the Orioles perspective, this is dog shit. If I was an orioles fan, I'd be pretty pissed. I GET that getting him off the team is the right move. You don't want to win. But not like this. Hold him for a few months... if he produces then you get a really nice trade back. If he doesn't, then well, you are losing which is what you want.

 

Maybe not.  Maybe he is too heavy and has limited range for infield, and maybe they feel that he cannot duplicate 2019 offensively.  Maybe he is the team asshole.  How many times have you seen him play?

[michelangelosmonkey]

34 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Maybe not.  Maybe he is too heavy and has limited range for infield, and maybe they feel that he cannot duplicate 2019 offensively.  Maybe he is the team asshole.  How many times have you seen him play?

I think there may be something to the asshole theory.  He's been traded three times already and now cut.  Brewers traded him in the midst of a playoff hunt for a half year rental of a guy at the same position.  He was young, affordable, had a 1.4 WAR that year for half a season and two years before put up a 4 WAR.  There's something we don't know about him that it seems the league must know.  

[iWiN4PreP]

1 hour ago, oldsox said:

Maybe not.  Maybe he is too heavy and has limited range for infield, and maybe they feel that he cannot duplicate 2019 offensively.  Maybe he is the team asshole.  How many times have you seen him play?

How many times in sports do we see a situation like that happen? An asshole who was skilled enough to gain a 4.0 WAR off some gaudy statistics? 

Why would that be an easier explanation to give rather than the owners being cheap/MLB having a serious labor problem? 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

13 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

How many times in sports do we see a situation like that happen? An asshole who was skilled enough to gain a 4.0 WAR off some gaudy statistics? 

Why would that be an easier explanation to give rather than the owners being cheap/MLB having a serious labor problem? 

It's a tanking problem.

[GreenSox]

23 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Can they?  I know I haven't been super impressed with the options.  Who, in your view is better, and cheaper?  And again, I think the 10 mil is expensive for him.  But he would certainly be a dangerous guy to have in the lineup in a couple of ways.  Not that I'd expect him to hit 24 HRs again, but if he hits 15 and can steal 40 bases, that is a dynamic combination.  

Avi - he hits about the same as Villar.  Now I'm not particularly interested in signing him, but he can hit as well as Villar.  Puig too.

[Lillian]

Regarding the speculation that, in addition to his price tag,  Villar's character might be a reason that he is unwanted, this article seems to refute that notion:

https://www.camdenchat.com/2019/8/30/20840248/jonathan-villar-is-having-a-breakout-season

Edited November 29, 2019 by Lillian

[Dominikk85]

21 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I agree pretty much with everything @Look at Ray Ray Run has been posting here.

The other side of the argument is that for 10 million, is J. Villar really worth it? When you really break it down is he worth 10 million? I think that's a poor thing to consider. Villar is arguably not worth the full 10 million (maybe he is, idk). But he damn sure is close to that number if hes putting up 4.0 WAR last year. Further, this is a One-year contract right now if im reading it correctly.

Looking at this from the Orioles perspective, this is dog shit. If I was an orioles fan, I'd be pretty pissed. I GET that getting him off the team is the right move. You don't want to win. But not like this. Hold him for a few months... if he produces then you get a really nice trade back. If he doesn't, then well, you are losing which is what you want.

 

I agree. The Os could have kept him and then traded him at the deadline maybe adding 2-3m to the deal and get a decent (but probably not great) prospect. The Os have a front office vultured from the Astros which is pretty smart so this is probably on the owner who doesn't want to pay him.

But then again to be fair angelos wasn't that cheap, his payroll was 150M in 2016 and even 175m in 2017 which isn't bad for  a dump like Baltimore. Maybe angelos paid some extra money for those years and now wants to get this money back while they tank.

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

I agree. The Os could have kept him and then traded him at the deadline maybe adding 2-3m to the deal and get a decent (but probably not great) prospect. The Os have a front office vultured from the Astros which is pretty smart so this is probably on the owner who doesn't want to pay him.

But then again to be fair angelos wasn't that cheap, his payroll was 150M in 2016 and even 175m in 2017 which isn't bad for  a dump like Baltimore. Maybe angelos paid some extra money for those years and now wants to get this money back while they tank.

Near South Side=Inner Harbor area???

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

23 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

10 million isnt expensive even if you think villar is only worth half of his WAR last year.

He would go straight to the top of my off season list ahead many I have been listing as a solid backup option like Moose or Holt or Kendrick. Just one year for the expected arb price isn't bad at all for a youngish, 4.0 WAR, switch hitting, power hitting base stealer who can play infield and OF. Plus for only a year you can see how he performs and decide if he could be a piece moving forward. It really depends on what some of those other guys are asking for .

A Zobrist type guy is always pretty valuable on a contender. Could always see if you can trade Leury and keep Mendick to soften the salary blow.

[Chicago White Sox]

Guys - If GMs thought Villar would put up 4 wins next year, he would have been claimed.  Clearly they don’t project him to be worth that much (my guess due to flukey base-running value) and FWIW Steamer has him at 1.8 fWAR.  That doesn’t mean he can’t be a useful player, I just think people see this big fWAR and unrealistically believe that’s his baseline going forward.