Successful Plan B; What’s Next?

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Beat writers seem to be pushing back against the narrative that the White Sox are involved in either; from Fegan's last two pieces, he has implied that the Sox don't see value in these post 30 starters without power stuff and find them to be too risky, and a "forced signing" and not one they would make normally.

Thanks for clarifying. I haven't read the Fegan pieces. If that's true, they would have to be looking at a trade.

[steveno89]

17 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Can you elaborate on the bolded part?  What language are you referring to?

Seems to me it's been very quiet on the Ryu/Keuchel front for all teams, not just the White Sox.

Has anything you have seen suggested the Sox are truly in on any free agent starting pitching right now?

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Beat writers seem to be pushing back against the narrative that the White Sox are involved in either; from Fegan's last two pieces, he has implied that the Sox don't see value in these post 30 starters without power stuff and find them to be too risky, and a "forced signing" and not one they would make normally.

Ray, I'm on board with you on that. Overpaying declining starters gets teams in big trouble. 

I know we should try to compete in 2020, but not at the expense of forcing it with players we do not want long term. 

Sox are conscious of age curves and have been reluctant to ink players much over thirty to multi year deals, with the exception of Grandal. 

[Orlando]

Fegan’s latest article makes multiple references to 2021 now being Hahn’s target year. What a joke. They will stand pat and bring in crap like last year. Inexcusable. The fact that they have paid Colome and Herrera for these past two seasons is ridiculous! “Multiple Championships”, yeah right. Better win 3 World Series in a row because after this year 3 more years until they make an excuse to not extend Moncada and Gio

Edited December 16, 2019 by Orlando

[Dick Allen]

They can make all the excuses they want but as of today the White Sox wo will not dance with Boras, and until they do they will be a lower tier franchise.

[Wisebri224]

Same Sox talk.  Next year we will spend big.  Yep.  As mentioned by Orlando, next they will have to extend their own players and the money will have been spent.  

[SonofaRoache]

4 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Has anything you have seen suggested the Sox are truly in on any free agent starting pitching right now?

Ray, I'm on board with you on that. Overpaying declining starters gets teams in big trouble. 

I know we should try to compete in 2020, but not at the expense of forcing it with players we do not want long term. 

Sox are conscious of age curves and have been reluctant to ink players much over thirty to multi year deals, with the exception of Grandal. 

Waiting until 2021 is a loser's mentality and Hahn would be stupid to do so. If we was this hell bent on acquiring a young stud pitcher or nothing of note, then he should have offered Wheeler another 10m. Also, if we aren't ready yet, then why sign Grandal and extend Abreu? 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

4 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Fegan’s latest article makes multiple references to 2021 now being Hahn’s target year. What a joke. They will stand pat and bring in crap like last year. Inexcusable. The fact that they have paid Colome and Herrera for these past two seasons is ridiculous! “Multiple Championships”, yeah right. Better win 3 World Series in a row because after this year 3 more years until they make an excuse to not extend Moncada and Gio

Anyone who actually believed that is a fool.  

[bschmaranz]

Are we at Plan Q yet?

[BackDoorBreach]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

Waiting until 2021 is a loser's mentality and Hahn would be stupid to do so. If we was this hell bent on acquiring a young stud pitcher or nothing of note, then he should have offered Wheeler another 10m. Also, if we aren't ready yet, then why sign Grandal and extend Abreu? 

Because that Machado money had to be recklessly spent.

[Orlando]

2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Anyone who actually believed that is a fool.  

The sad part is that they did a good job at the beginning. Committing to an actual rebuild. Collecting a mass of talent. Signing Luis Robert to a big international contract.Trading with the Cubs.  All of this pointed to change on the horizon. Now it seems like they have jumped ship or Jerry realized that they are making even more money now so let’s keep it that way.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Orlando

[Perfect Vision]

11 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

This is what Hahn said about Kopech. He obviously never directly said that he would start in AAA, but I think that's what he was getting at here...

 

 

11 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Quote

“I just don’t know when he’s going to be on the major league active roster. His rehab has gone wonderfully. He’s perfectly on pace. He’s going to be in spring training without restriction, and he’s going to be over 18 months removed from throwing a pitch in anger to a hitter. So, let’s let the kid develop, and when he’s ready, he’s going to be back.”

 

I think it's dumb that they're planning on sending Kopech to AAA to start the season.  Hahn's comments are nonsensical.  He says it's been 18 months since he's thrown a pitch to a hitter.  So what.  That's what spring training is for.  If he enters spring training healthy and without restriction, then he's in the same boat as all the other pitchers:  use those 6 weeks to build up arm strength and shake off the rust.

Then Hahn talks about letting the kid develop.  Um, he's developed.  They called him up in August 2018 because he was developed.  Does someone suddenly lose their MLB readiness from a development standpoint because they get injured?

There's a critical distinction between rehab and development that Hahn is blurring.  Kopech's dominance in AAA and call up in 2018 is evidence that he is developed and MLB ready.  He doesn't need to go to AAA for further development.  Since he was injured, we're just talking about rehab, and at the end of spring training next year he should be fully rehabbed and used to pitching against hitters again.

This is service time manipulation.  Period.  And since Kopech is going to be better than whoever he's competing with to be the 5th starter, he should be in the opening day rotation. 

 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 minute ago, Orlando said:

The sad part is that they did a good job at the beginning. Committing to an actual rebuild. Collecting a mass of talent. Signing Luis Robert to a big international contract.Trading with the Cubs.  All of this pointed to change on the horizon. Now it seems like they have jumped ship or Jerry realized that they are making even more money now so let’s keep it that way.

It's easy to make a bad team mediocre.  It's difficult to make a mediocre team good and extremely difficult to make a good team great.  I have zero faith in this front offices ability to make this team good let alone great.  

[Dick Allen]

If they are dragging this another year just sell the team to someone willing to run it like a major league team in a major market. If this offseaon is a wrap from a trying to be as good as you can be perspective,  take the money you have been banking and the final sale price of the team and go away.  

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

If they are dragging this another year just sell the team to someone willing to run it like a major league team in a major market. If this offseaon is a wrap from a trying to be as good as you can be perspective,  take the money you have been banking and the final sale price of the team and go away.  

Couldn’t agree more with this.  Hell, sell the team to Scott Boras.

[RTC]

1 minute ago, Orlando said:

The sad part is that they did a good job at the beginning. Committing to an actual rebuild. Collecting a mass of talent. Signing Luis Robert to a big international contract.Trading with the Cubs.  All of this pointed to change on the horizon. Now it seems like they have jumped ship or Jerry realized that they are making even more money now so let’s keep it that way.

Even this offseason: sign Grandal, getting Abreu for a 1-yr QO, non-tender Yolmer.  It looked like they were starting to behave like an intelligent, winning organization.  But that quickly turned into “you paid Abreu HOW MUCH?!?” and now we’ve gotten to “what the hell now?”  I’m still holding out some hope because there‘s still some useful FA’s out there, but this whole thing just smells a little like they had no plan beyond Wheeler.  

[BackDoorBreach]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

If they are dragging this another year just sell the team to someone willing to run it like a major league team in a major market. If this offseaon is a wrap from a trying to be as good as you can be perspective,  take the money you have been banking and the final sale price of the team and go away.  

Why do you think I was arguing with you last week about Mazara?  He is not a move a team makes that is doing everything they can to be as best as they can be.  Especially when they are sitting on piles of money.  

It's a total shit fucking move.

[Moan4Yoan]

15 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Waiting until 2021 is a loser's mentality and Hahn would be stupid to do so. If we was this hell bent on acquiring a young stud pitcher or nothing of note, then he should have offered Wheeler another 10m. Also, if we aren't ready yet, then why sign Grandal and extend Abreu? 

Bingo.  Great post.

[ChiSox1917]

22 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Has anything you have seen suggested the Sox are truly in on any free agent starting pitching right now?

Ray, I'm on board with you on that. Overpaying declining starters gets teams in big trouble. 

I know we should try to compete in 2020, but not at the expense of forcing it with players we do not want long term. 

Sox are conscious of age curves and have been reluctant to ink players much over thirty to multi year deals, with the exception of Grandal. 

This is so dumb.  I would understand the front office not wanting to sign guys over 30 if there’s success had been based on having power stuff.  But to pass on guys who were also soft tosses in their 20s and simply know how to pitch is absurd.  Those types of guys don’t fall off a cliff all of a sudden. 

[steveno89]

1 minute ago, ChiSox1917 said:

This is so dumb.  I would understand the front office not wanting to sign guys over 30 if there’s success had been based on having power stuff.  But to pass on guys who were also soft tosses in their 20s and simply know how to pitch is absurd.  Those types of guys don’t fall off a cliff all of a sudden. 

We are not privy to what actual asks/contract demands are. Ryu/Keuchel are likely asking for big money and years.

Do you want Ryu at 3/$75 million? Do you want Keuchel at 4/$80 million? No.

[fathom]

Just now, steveno89 said:

We are not privy to what actual asks/contract demands are. Ryu/Keuchel are likely asking for big money and years.

Do you want Ryu at 3/$75 million? Do you want Keuchel at 4/$80 million? No.

Sure I don’t mind that for Ryu.  I also doubt Keuchel gets that much more than MadBum

[Moan4Yoan]

3 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

We are not privy to what actual asks/contract demands are. Ryu/Keuchel are likely asking for big money and years.

Do you want Ryu at 3/$75 million? Do you want Keuchel at 4/$80 million? No.

As opposed to wasting a season of control over Giolito, Kopech, and Moncada?  Yes, sign one of those guys.  Besides the fact that you are throwing out high numbers that neither pitcher may get.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[KopechThrowsHeat]

What does everyone think about Robbie Ray?

[fathom]

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

As opposed to wasting a season of control of Giolito, Kopech, and Moncada?  Yes, sign one of those guys.  Besides the fact that you are throwing out high numbers that neither pitcher may get.

Just seems the organization is so scared of making a risky move.  Hahn probably also loves being able to push things back a year, as it gives him more job security.

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, KopechThrowsHeat said:

What does everyone think about Robbie Ray?

Doesn’t really go with what the Sox were supposedly looking for.

[steveno89]

19 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

 

I think it's dumb that they're planning on sending Kopech to AAA to start the season.  Hahn's comments are nonsensical.  He says it's been 18 months since he's thrown a pitch to a hitter.  So what.  That's what spring training is for.  If he enters spring training healthy and without restriction, then he's in the same boat as all the other pitchers:  use those 6 weeks to build up arm strength and shake off the rust.

Then Hahn talks about letting the kid develop.  Um, he's developed.  They called him up in August 2018 because he was developed.  Does someone suddenly lose their MLB readiness from a development standpoint because they get injured?

There's a critical distinction between rehab and development that Hahn is blurring.  Kopech's dominance in AAA and call up in 2018 is evidence that he is developed and MLB ready.  He doesn't need to go to AAA for further development.  Since he was injured, we're just talking about rehab, and at the end of spring training next year he should be fully rehabbed and used to pitching against hitters again.

This is service time manipulation.  Period.  And since Kopech is going to be better than whoever he's competing with to be the 5th starter, he should be in the opening day rotation. 

 

Kopech has 14 MLB innings to his name and has not earned a starting rotation spot in any sense. Kopech absolutely should be sent to AAA for at least a month to build up his arm and face hitters. 

Sox absolutely are going to get the lost year of service time back, but there's zero argument against having him be in AAA for 1-2 months.