Successful Plan B; What’s Next?

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Add this point my ideal plan B would be the following:

• Ryu - 3/$66M
• Walker - 1/$9M
• Encarnacion - 1/$10M
• Harris - 2/$18M
• Holt - 2/$9M
• Maybin - 1/$4M
• McCann traded for prospect depth

In regards to the bolded guys, seems like a lot of adding for the sake of adding.  

Give me Ryu/Keuchel and Wood/Walker/Gio then a guy like Gennett or Dietrich for 2B and then bench and call it a day.

I guess EE makes some sense if McCann is traded, but doubt Sox want to rely on Collins on primary backup.  

[ChiSox59]

32 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

It's not only about needing to build arm strength...it's more about being on an innings limit next year.  If he starts the year in the rotation, then he will be shut down at some point. And if he's going to be shut down anyway, you might as well "shut him down" in the beginning of the year when he can pitch a couple innings at a time in AAA.

Seems I convinced someone! Pretty sure I was trying to get you on this train a week or two ago - now you're convincing others.

May have posters wrong, but pretty sure! 

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Seems I convinced someone! Pretty sure I was trying to get you on this train a week or two ago - now you're convincing others.

May have posters wrong, but pretty sure! 

Haha, that wasn't me.  I've always thought Kopech should and will start in AAA.

Edited December 16, 2019 by SoxBlanco

[ChiSox59]

Just now, SoxBlanco said:

Haha, what wasn't me.  I've always thought Kopech should and will start in AAA.

My bad! 

[ChiSox59]

13 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

If Kopech struggles with his command in spring training, then yes, he should go to AAA.  If he looks sharp, though, he should be in the rotation.  Many seem to be advocating for AAA no matter how he looks.

Keep banging your head on the wall if you'd like.  Kopech will be in AAA, and that is where he should be.  Its really not even a question.  

[centerfieldsixers]

why should he start in AAA?

[BamaDoc]

I addressed Kopech in more length here for those that missed it and how I expect him to be handled.  It was based off Hahn comments though I don't have quotes.  The specifics of the plan are mine.

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

If I had to guess, kopech will be on the opening day roster. If not I imagine a grievance will be filed immediately. And while that would lose, I'm guessing the sox want to avoid the drama all together.

[steveno89]

1 minute ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

If I had to guess, kopech will be on the opening day roster. If not I imagine a grievance will be filed immediately. And while that would lose, I'm guessing the sox want to avoid the drama all together.

Kopech has zero basis to file a grievance

 

[BamaDoc]

Keeping him in warm weather and potentially a reduced/modified work load is not grounds for a grievance.  You are protecting an asset.  Regaining the year is a happy byproduct of protecting him.  Maybe the next CBA addresses players on a injured list for a prolonged period should get partial service time accumulation.  I could see that concession from players if the overall time to free agency is lessened but that should be another thread entirely.  

Edited December 16, 2019 by BamaDoc

[hi8is]

6 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

If I had to guess, kopech will be on the opening day roster. If not I imagine a grievance will be filed immediately. And while that would lose, I'm guessing the sox want to avoid the drama all together.

A young pitcher with little major league experience returning from TJ to begin a new season starting his year in the minors is not aberrant.

He’ll start in Charlotte and will not gold any grievance.

[Buehrle>Wood]

12 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Kopech has zero basis to file a grievance

 

Neither does Kris Bryant, but it didnt stop him. When you're clearly manipulating service time, I imagine they will cause a stink about it.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

In regards to the bolded guys, seems like a lot of adding for the sake of adding.  

Give me Ryu/Keuchel and Wood/Walker/Gio then a guy like Gennett or Dietrich for 2B and then bench and call it a day.

I guess EE makes some sense if McCann is traded, but doubt Sox want to rely on Collins on primary backup.  

Maybin may be overkill (still concerned about Engel in CF for a month), but Holt fills the same exact need at Gennett or Dietrich but arguably better IMO.

As for EE, part of me thinks now that we added such a high variability RF that we need more stability at DH.  I still have hope for Collins, but with Vaughn right around the corner this rotating DH spot will likely be a one year event.  If so, I’d rather just get a proven stopgap and see if Collins can factor into the catching mix long-term.  Otherwise, I don’t see how he factors into the 25 man roster.

[ChiSox59]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Maybin may be overkill (still concerned about Engel in CF for a month), but Holt fills the same exact need at Gennett or Dietrich but arguably better IMO.

As for EE, part of me thinks now that we added such a high variability RF that we need more stability at DH.  I still have hope for Collins, but with Vaughn right around the corner this rotating DH spot will likely be a one year event.  If so, I’d rather just get a proven stopgap and see if Collins can factor into the catching mix long-term.  Otherwise, I don’t see how he factors into the 25 man roster.

I think Leury will be the primary CF over Engel to start the year. I’m pretty sure they’ll add someone to play 2B and then shift to bench. Several names that make varying degrees of sense.

i hear ya on the DH concern, but EE isn’t going to sign somewhere that he’s going to regularly end up on the bench against LHP, which he rakes. 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think Leury will be the primary CF over Engel to start the year. I’m pretty sure they’ll add someone to play 2B and then shift to bench. Several names that make varying degrees of sense.

i hear ya on the DH concern, but EE isn’t going to sign somewhere that he’s going to regularly end up on the bench against LHP, which he rakes. 

Why would he end up on the bench against LHP?

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why would he end up on the bench against LHP?

Because McCann hits lefties well, therefore he'll likely against LHP most of the time.  Then you only have DH and 1B for Grandal, Abreu and EE.  Who all mash lefties.  

[ChiSox59]

31 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

If I had to guess, kopech will be on the opening day roster. If not I imagine a grievance will be filed immediately. And while that would lose, I'm guessing the sox want to avoid the drama all together.

But but but I threw 14 innings in the major leagues and then blew out my elbow!  How in the world could they not put me on the major league roster after I haven't thrown a competitive pitch in 18 months!  I don't understand!  Grievance!!  

[ChiSox59]

17 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Neither does Kris Bryant, but it didnt stop him. When you're clearly manipulating service time, I imagine they will cause a stink about it.

These are wildly different circumstances.  Bryant also wasn't returning from a major arm reconstruction surgery.  Such a silly comp.  

Plus, Brant hit like 15 homers in ST that year and was clearly one of the best players on the Cubs.  If Kopech mows down all his competition in ST, this will be closer to a comp, but then you're also still discounting the whole arm reconstruction thing.  So yah...not anywhere near the same thing.  

[Harold's Leg Lift]

People get too wrapped up in romanticizing the opening day roster.  It's a long freakin season and Kopech will get his starts and innings.  I'll be the first one to call this team out for being short sighted but starting Kopech in the minors is a smart move.    

[mqr]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

These are wildly different circumstances.  Bryant also wasn't returning from a major arm reconstruction surgery.  Such a silly comp.  

Plus, Brant hit like 15 homers in ST that year and was clearly one of the best players on the Cubs.  If Kopech mows down all his competition in ST, this will be closer to a comp, but then you're also still discounting the whole arm reconstruction thing.  So yah...not anywhere near the same thing.  

Mike Olt also sat on the bench hurt for like 3 days before getting DL'd the day of the cutoff.

[Buehrle>Wood]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

These are wildly different circumstances.  Bryant also wasn't returning from a major arm reconstruction surgery.  Such a silly comp.  

Plus, Brant hit like 15 homers in ST that year and was clearly one of the best players on the Cubs.  If Kopech mows down all his competition in ST, this will be closer to a comp, but then you're also still discounting the whole arm reconstruction thing.  So yah...not anywhere near the same thing.  

I agree it's different circumstances yet everyone wants to send him down for control reasons. Every post that has mentioned him starting in AAA has mentioned control as the primary reason. Hes not stupid and will see the same thing everyone else does, but fair the injury makes for a nice excuse. It's extremely clear hes one of the best starting options on the team (barring him having a double digit era in ST or something). He will be upset if hes not up here opening day and knows how much that can cost him financially. We will just have to wait and see what decisions they make I guess. 

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I agree it's different circumstances yet everyone wants to send him down for control reasons. Every post that has mentioned him starting in AAA has mentioned control as the primary reason. Hes not stupid and will see the same thing everyone else does, but fair the injury makes for a nice excuse. It's extremely clear hes one of the best starting options on the team (barring him having a double digit era in ST or something). He will be upset if hes not up here opening day and knows how much that can cost him financially. We will just have to wait and see what decisions they make I guess. 

The primary reason is he's going to be on an innings limit in 2020, and if he starts the year in the majors unimpeded, he'll be shut down by August 1.  No thanks.  The extra year of service is just an added benefit to handling this the correct way.  

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because McCann hits lefties well, therefore he'll likely against LHP most of the time.  Then you only have DH and 1B for Grandal, Abreu and EE.  Who all mash lefties.  

That’s why I was suggesting trading McCann for prospect depth.  I agree if you add EE you pretty much need to move one of McCann or Collins as there simply won’t be enough playing time to go around.

[steveno89]

13 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I agree it's different circumstances yet everyone wants to send him down for control reasons. Every post that has mentioned him starting in AAA has mentioned control as the primary reason. Hes not stupid and will see the same thing everyone else does, but fair the injury makes for a nice excuse. It's extremely clear hes one of the best starting options on the team (barring him having a double digit era in ST or something). He will be upset if hes not up here opening day and knows how much that can cost him financially. We will just have to wait and see what decisions they make I guess. 

Is it? Have you seen him face live batters since September 2018? 

We have no idea how he will fare until Spring Training, and even then, exactly what ChiSox59 said

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

29 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I agree it's different circumstances yet everyone wants to send him down for control reasons. Every post that has mentioned him starting in AAA has mentioned control as the primary reason. Hes not stupid and will see the same thing everyone else does, but fair the injury makes for a nice excuse. It's extremely clear hes one of the best starting options on the team (barring him having a double digit era in ST or something). He will be upset if hes not up here opening day and knows how much that can cost him financially. We will just have to wait and see what decisions they make I guess. 

So if he has an ERA of 10, with more walks than strikeouts he should make the team out of spring training? If Kopech does not look good or back to his normal self before he was hurt, he should be sent down to Charlotte to get right.