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Sleepy Harold

Nomar Mazara Speculation

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For a FO that is keenly aware how they are perceived by the media, fans, players, GMs, Agents, this move makes no fucking sense and would be a huge embarassment.

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21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He’s been just above league average as a hitter against RHP in his career and is below average defensively.  That is not an overly productive platoon player even.  Yes there is potentially some untapped upside there, but the lack of control negates much of that value and quite simply we should be aiming much higher with our last positional spot.

While I don’t agree with breaking down a 24 year old’s career numbers to project what he’ll do the next few years, I think your comment about aiming higher is a very legit argument that I don’t disagree with at all.

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21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Is the goal 1.5 wins out of RF?  If he’s our final positional addition, I don’t think the front office is serious about competing next year.

I’ve been very specific and clear about him working as a platoon option. Not a full-time every day right fielder. So no, I want more than 1.5 wins out of RF. With a platoon, you’d likely get more than that. 

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If we are getting Mazara because we want to trade him for another player or prospects because we are afraid of winning this year, then I'm going to be angry.

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49 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And I see development and upside in many of the players that we could give away, and a history of dramatically overpaying for veterans in trades, and free agency 2 years away even if Mazara turns out to develop.

If we get him at a reasonable cost I won't complain, but it has to literally be a pittance given his contract status. Trust for a GM is earned, not given away, and this GM has taught me well not to trust his judgment at all when it comes to trading for big leaguers. 

 

As I’ve said, let’s see what the cost is. It’s very relevant. 

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8 minutes ago, fathom said:

I really think they are so caught up in making sure they get a lefty outfielder that they have a bit of tunnel vision 

I simply don’t buy this Mazara rumor and think this is Hahn playing hype man for Jon Daniels in a separate deal.  Hahn has stressed the importance of adding more OBP this offseason and Mazara does NOT help that need whatsoever.  And this after he actually went out and signed one of the highest OBP hitters available.  He has also implied the need to take this team to the next level in 2020.  He showed a desire to do just that by signing Grandal and offering Wheeler $125M.  Why add a change of scenery guy if you are serious about competing next year?  And finally, he said the money will be spent, but then turns around and goes cheap in RF?  Even if the plan is to pursue Mookie or Springer next year, why not go get a proven stopgap at least?  Can’t be that much more expensive than what we’re speculating Mazara will cost.  This all reeks of misdirection to me.

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4 minutes ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said:

As I’ve said, let’s see what the cost is. It’s very relevant. 

He’s a bad player either way and doesn’t improve the team all that much.  What does the cost matter?  The Sox have money to spend and should do better than Mazara for RF.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I simply don’t buy this Mazara rumor and think this is Hahn playing hype man for Jon Daniels in a separate deal.  Hahn has stressed the importance of adding more OBP this offseason and Mazara does NOT help that need whatsoever.  And this after he actually went out and signed one of the highest OBP hitters available.  He has also implied the need to take this team to the next level in 2020.  He showed a desire to do just that by signing Grandal and offering Wheeler $125M.  Why add a change of scenery guy if you are serious about competing next year?  And finally, he said the money will be spent, but then turns around and goes cheap in RF?  Even if the plan is to pursue Mookie or Springer next year, why not go get a proven stopgap at least?  Can’t be that much more expensive than what we’re speculating Mazara will cost.  This all reeks of misdirection to me.

I hope this is the case.  Seems like a lot of smoke just to help [collude] with his buddy Daniels when there are already a few teams interested if the Sox interest is fake (Cardinals, Dbacks, Tigers, Marlins).

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I hope this doesn’t happen. I don’t absolutely hate it if the return is minimal, but it’s just such a bleh move.

The return doesn’t even matter.  We missed on Wheeler.  We aren’t signing Cole.  Short of a trade for an impact starter (which will require significant talent), we’re looking at one of the tier 3 starters being our big pitching addition.  Therefore, we can’t just settle in RF if we want to be competitive next year.  We need someone that can actually be impactful and Mazara simply doesn’t cut it.

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5 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

He’s a bad player either way and doesn’t improve the team all that much.  What does the cost matter?  The Sox have money to spend and should do better than Mazara for RF.

I don’t agree he’d be bad if used properly. But I do agree they can do better. 100%. 

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7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

thankfully seems like this isn’t done yet, and other teams in the mix. 

Seems more likely that there’s an ulterior motive to the Sox interest

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When is the last time a player in his early 20's went from 0.6, -0.3, 0.9, 0.5 all the way up to 2 fWAR or even 3???  His entire career value is 1.7 for four years.

Why not just acquire Villar for cash alone and stick him out there for one year?  Or Dickerson/Calhoun/Puig/Gardner, etc.

Even as a platoon outfielder, he's going to be weighed down by his defensive shortcomings.

 

Well, one of the few answers to that question is Avi Garcia, of course.

At least with Avisail Garcia, he has proven the ability to have at least ONE breakout season.   This move is 100% predicated on his left-handedness?

Avi was EXACTLY 0.0 fWAR (a replacement player by definition from 2012-2016).  Then 4.2, 0.1 and 1.8.   So you average that out for three seasons, you still at least have around a 2 fWAR player at age 28 that you're already familiar with...and who you feel certain would be comfortable playing in Chicago.

 

Edited by caulfield12

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The reason the White Sox never got over the hump previously was because they half-assed fixing their holes.

This move would be just that.

I just want to be a fly on the wall for the conversations Rick is having. This shit is annoying AF.

The Pirates are seeking a controllable catcher give them Collins-Mercedes-Zavala any of their choosing. 

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Anyone else confused as to why rebuilding teams would want a player with only two arbitration years left until free agency?

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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12 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

For a FO that is keenly aware how they are perceived by the media, fans, players, GMs, Agents, this move makes no fucking sense and would be a huge embarassment.

100% agree.  Even Duber said the fanbase was riled up about this.  Obviously they shouldn’t make moves strictly based on fan reaction, but no one will ever believe the money will be spent if this is one of main offseason additions.

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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The return doesn’t even matter.  We missed on Wheeler.  We aren’t signing Cole.  Short of a trade for an impact starter (which will require significant talent), we’re looking at one of the tier 3 starters being our big pitching addition.  Therefore, we can’t just settle in RF if we want to be competitive next year.  We need someone that can actually be impactful and Mazara simply doesn’t cut it.

I hear ya. Still prefer him assuming a reasonable return for his valid, minimal future commitment and retained financial and positional flexibility to signing either Castellanos or Ozuna. 

I am not making this Mazara move in mid December tho.

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Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

Anyone else confused as to why rebuilding teams would want a player with only two arbitration years left until free agency?

They hope he figures it out and they can flip him. 

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12 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

If we are getting Mazara because we want to trade him for another player or prospects because we are afraid of winning this year, then I'm going to be angry.

Wut?

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