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Sox acquire Nomar Mazara for Steele Walker

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1 hour ago, Chisox378 said:

When did Bill James say this? It must have been a long time ago. Pujols put up batting averages of .329, .314, .359, .331 his first 4 years to go alomg with well over 150 HR. It's no comparison to Mazara. Mazaras swing is nothing like Albert's. Bill James struck out here.

He said it before the 2018 season. I severely over drafted him in fantasy solely based on what James said.

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Back off the list ledge for a few months at least. This isn’t black and white.

Evaluate in February against the full roster and then evaluate once more in July around the all-star break. 

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18 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Woof.

AB in 2019: 100 wrc+, 9% bb%, 22%k%, .165 iso, .333 babip, 774 ops

NM in 2019: 94 wrc+, 6% bb%, 23%k% .200 iso, .312 babip, 787 ops 

AB was also a negative defender in left field so I guess I’m just not seeing how he’s so much better

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Well, sure.... if you completely ignore their three previous seasons and the concept of fWAR, the two players are completely identical. 

Benintendi averages around 2.8 fWAR the last three years, whereas Mazara has accumulated 1.7 in his entire four year career.  Benintendi, worst case, is at 2. Mazara has never even topped 1.

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Can someone generate a spray chart for what Mazar’s 2019 hits would have looked like if all games were played at the cell?

I played with a couple of online tools but couldn’t figure it out.

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4 hours ago, TheTruth05 said:

I honestly would have rather kept platooning Leury/Engel in RF.

OMG this thread is so out of control. 

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https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2019/12/11/sources-rangers-clear-up-their-logjam-of-lefty-hitters-trade-nomar-mazara-to-chicago-white-sox/
 

Basically, he was the most expendable left-handed hitter on their roster, after Calhoun passed him in the second half this year.

We got the one player in their outfield that wasn’t going to receive much playing time in 2020.
 

Essentially, we’re relying on him, McCann, Collins and Leury to be meaningful contributors...yay!!!   

Texas actually knows how to find pitchers on the cheap (Lynn and Minor combined for 10.7 fWAR), they have added Walker for a player who was probably on the verge of being non-tendered (a Texas kid would never rake for the Rangers, right?) and Hahn generously helped them sign another kid by gifting Daniels international signing pool money in the same calendar year.

So we’re going to pay Mazara $15-17.5 million to produce 1 fWAR (which we could have done for just FA $$$ with Dickerson, Calhoun, Puig or Gardner, who all would have been around 1.5-2.0 fWAR)...while giving up our best outfield prospect and helping the Rangers sign Lora, too.

Now we are down one more trade chip (#6 prospect) in the remaining inventory to trade for a more desperately needed #2 starter.

 

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/rangers-trade-for-international-pool-money-to-sign-bayron-lora/

The Rangers traded for $1 million of international bonus pool money today to be able to finalize their signing of Bayron Lora, a 16-year-old outfielder with huge power from the Dominican Republic. Lora has been playing for the Rangers' team in the Tricky League, an informal league in the Dominican Republic for recent July 2 signings, with clubs supplementing their rosters with unsigned amateur players as well. He homered yesterday, his third home run of the Tricky League, which opened two weeks ago. Lora will add to an international signing class that also includes shortstops Maximo Acosta from Venezuela and Zion Bannister from the Bahamas.

Edited by caulfield12
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11 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

FWIW, Mazara career at G-Rate.

(91 PA) 25-81, 6 HR, 22 RBI, 7 XBH, 8 BB, 14 SO, 17 R (.309/.374/.642/1.016)

If only he could continue to face Sox pitchers at GRF, he’d totally be an All-Star.

Alas...not the case going forward.  
 

You walked right into that one.

Edited by caulfield12

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I like it. Mazara was a top20 overall prospect and is still only a year older than walker is now. There still is a chance he has a breakout in a different environment. He has shown good flashes, just not consistently.

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25 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

If only he could continue to face Sox pitchers at GRF, he’d totally be an All-Star.

Alas...not the case going forward.  
 

You walked right into that one.

Actually that was my mistake. That was his career numbers in general against us. 

Edited by SoxAce

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Disappointed to wake up to this.

On one side, there are long tails to this move, he could net out to be a significant bat offensively, though his defense may always limit that effect to around 3 WAR.

And last offseason it was basically decided that the white sox would still significantly rely on luck, anyway, so if our luck pays out this is another iron in the fire. 

But all things considered, I thought we were doing this rebuild to make a team better than the best teams in baseball. And it's just really hard at this point to see the white sox with ambitions outside of competing for a division title. That's most disappointing to me,, I thought they would build a large amount of budget to add a significant FA piece. But I don't see a single guy they signed that we couldn't have believed they couldn't have gotten in previous iterations of the sox.

It sucks, but it doesn't suck just for Mazara. It really does seem like he has an approach problem, and we just saw two great examples of updating an approach (or leaning into one) to maximize results for great success in uber-talented guys in moncada/TA. I keep mentioning Soler, but Soler! His exit velocity was also average. He also had muted production. Then he found a way to match his strength with an approach and absolutely crushes the ball on the regular and it started at age 25. And also he's terrible defensively so its a great match.

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5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Disappointed to wake up to this.

On one side, there are long tails to this move, he could net out to be a significant bat offensively, though his defense may always limit that effect to around 3 WAR.

And last offseason it was basically decided that the white sox would still significantly rely on luck, anyway, so if our luck pays out this is another iron in the fire. 

But all things considered, I thought we were doing this rebuild to make a team better than the best teams in baseball. And it's just really hard at this point to see the white sox with ambitions outside of competing for a division title. That's most disappointing to me,, I thought they would build a large amount of budget to add a significant FA piece. But I don't see a single guy they signed that we couldn't have believed they couldn't have gotten in previous iterations of the sox.

It sucks, but it doesn't suck just for Mazara. It really does seem like he has an approach problem, and we just saw two great examples of updating an approach (or leaning into one) to maximize results for great success in uber-talented guys in moncada/TA. I keep mentioning Soler, but Soler! His exit velocity was also average. He also had muted production. Then he found a way to match his strength with an approach and absolutely crushes the ball on the regular and it started at age 25. And also he's terrible defensively so its a great match.

Luis Robert is the only example of doing anything differently.

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1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Luis Robert is the only example of doing anything differently.

The college reliever thing was different and hoo boy was it not effective.

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I get the concerns with this trade, however I like it. 

 

Mazara was a 5 million dollar international signing, he struggled with contact as a minor and always seemed like he was rushed to the Majors given his approach. He DEFINATELY has the potential to become a better hitter, given his age and potential. 

 

I think its likely the other trade options were asking for too much in return, quoting Hahns own Eaton deal as part of the reason. I’d have even been happy with Walker for Polanco as he also has performed poorly but had good prospect pedigree. 

 

WORST case is he outperforms what we had in that position last year. 

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Baseball is a team game. Stop freaking out about WAR.

Last year, we routinely had a section of the lineup that went something like Castillo, Sanchez, Engel, Cordell. Good for nothing, unless I had some sort of chore to do, mid-game.

Now, that section can be dispersed through the rest of the lineup in the form of Robert, Madrigal, Grandal, Mazara. Leury can be the platoon player he ought to be and hide Mazara from lefties. If McCann holds up at all and doesn’t totally regress, we really don’t have any easy outs anymore, whereas last year we had four.

And Mazara is only a year older than the A baller we gave up for him.

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I think this move signals that Hahn is done and scared of doing too much in 2020 and will revert to the Keppingers and Novas of free agency now. Strap it down, but don’t strap it on boys, we’re done this offseason aside from a few other minor FA stopgaps, maybe a Taijuan Walker type. 

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Let’s not freak out guys. Markin has been predicting two moves at the meetings. Let’s see if Hahn has something up his sleeves. A big pitching acquisition or a Castellanos signing would make this ok but if this is there “move” this winter, they deserve all the criticism they can get 

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13 minutes ago, Colinski said:

I get the concerns with this trade, however I like it. 

 

Mazara was a 5 million dollar international signing, he struggled with contact as a minor and always seemed like he was rushed to the Majors given his approach. He DEFINATELY has the potential to become a better hitter, given his age and potential. 

 

I think its likely the other trade options were asking for too much in return, quoting Hahns own Eaton deal as part of the reason. I’d have even been happy with Walker for Polanco as he also has performed poorly but had good prospect pedigree. 

 

WORST case is he outperforms what we had in that position last year. 

At least Polanco has shown the ability to at least put up three 2+ fWAR seasons and a 7.8 over his career.

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5 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Read chw42’s post...  Mazara hasn’t reached 1 WAR in any single season in his career.  That’s putrid.  You couldn’t do much worse if you tried.

The Sox actually did much worse last year and they didn’t have to try at all. 

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Just now, Orlando said:

Let’s not freak out guys. Markin has been predicting two moves at the meetings. Let’s see if Hahn has something up his sleeves. A big pitching acquisition or a Castellanos signing would make this ok but if this is there “move” this winter, they deserve all the criticism they can get 

They have to add at least one scrap heap pitcher, but the odds on anyone but Keuchel are slim and none at this point.

We’ve gone from Wheeler and Castellanos/Ozuna (maybe even two hitters) to maybe Keuchel (at best, a poor man’s Buehrle) and Mazara, of course people are going to be pissed off...especially if they refuse to spend money on decent starting pitching and trade Vaughn, Madrigal or Lopez instead.

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Reinsdorf continuing his tradition of keeping the fanbase noses pressed up against the window pane of true championship  contention.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Let’s not freak out guys. Markin has been predicting two moves at the meetings. Let’s see if Hahn has something up his sleeves. A big pitching acquisition or a Castellanos signing would make this ok but if this is there “move” this winter, they deserve all the criticism they can get 

I said last night but if this was just a "our scouting team loves this guy and he's available, let's get him" but they aren't relying on him I'm fine with it. Walker is a decent, steep price, but it could pay off.

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