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Sox acquire Nomar Mazara for Steele Walker

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3 minutes ago, ScottyDo said:

Ok yeah this is uninspiring but it's still Dec 11. If this is it, squarely a bad offseason for the Sox. No question.

What makes no sense to me is people complaining that, if he's good, we're going to lose him in the middle of our 4 year window. Umm, yeah, if he's good we have a good player for half our window? There's no downside to Mazara being good at baseball for 2020 and/or 2021.

I don't think this is all that likely a scenario, it's just a nonsensical argument.

It’s nonsensical if you are assuming that the Sox couldn’t have simply signed another outfielder with money alone for two years that could have performed just as well or possibly better than Mazara.  Corey Dickerson for one.

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1 minute ago, soxfan3530 said:

Is there any hope they still sign Castallenos and we rotate the DH between Castallenos/Mazara/Abreu/Eloy/McCann? 
 

Please say yes. 

No chance. 

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1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said:

Maybe, and then if he does, he’ll be a free agent. 

OK, but you have him under control for two years.   You can't make something out of that in the meantime?   How is he being good a problem?   What am I missing? 

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2 minutes ago, ScottyDo said:

Ok yeah this is uninspiring but it's still Dec 11. If this is it, squarely a bad offseason for the Sox. No question.

What makes no sense to me is people complaining that, if he's good, we're going to lose him in the middle of our 4 year window. Umm, yeah, if he's good we have a good player for half our window? There's no downside to Mazara being good at baseball for 2020 and/or 2021.

I don't think this is all that likely a scenario, it's just a nonsensical argument.

Problem is that many were expecting that window to open in 2020. Half measures, like Mazara, will ensure that window will remain shut until at least 2021. Chances are mazara is gone by then thus rendering this trade pointless

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5 minutes ago, ScottyDo said:

Ok yeah this is uninspiring but it's still Dec 11. If this is it, squarely a bad offseason for the Sox. No question.

What makes no sense to me is people complaining that, if he's good, we're going to lose him in the middle of our 4 year window. Umm, yeah, if he's good we have a good player for half our window? There's no downside to Mazara being good at baseball for 2020 and/or 2021.

I don't think this is all that likely a scenario, it's just a nonsensical argument.

Except he's only overlapping for ONE year of our contention window without two more starting pitchers, a veteran RH reliever and a LOT more production out of DH/RF.

Not to mention he's in his final arbitration year in 2021, so that's going to limit the amount of talent we can bring in, operating on these imagined payroll ceilings in the $140's and $150's, since we have ZERO reason to believe they'll actually spend up to those levels after losing out on Wheeler (and knowing them won't pay up for Betts and/or Springer, who coincidentally are now "blocked" by Mazara, lol.)

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3 minutes ago, soxfan3530 said:

Is there any hope they still sign Castallenos and we rotate the DH between Castallenos/Mazara/Abreu/Eloy/McCann? 
 

Please say yes. 

No

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2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Isn’t this just a further indictment of Mazara as a target?  Mazara’s value dropped even more since last year since he had another mediocre season, not even accumulating 1 WAR, so we were able to acquire him more cheaply?  😂

He’s still a baby, and never had a chance to develop in the minors coming up so young (20). He still has a chance to break through.

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16 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

And they’re less likely to be contending by playing Mazara in the meantime.

The issue is way more about not doing better at getting a RF than it is about giving up Steele Walker. 

100% this.  Our second biggest offensive upgrade this offseason will be Mazara.  A team that won 72 games last year basically stopped after adding Grandal.  And yes, I know Robert & Madrigal will be up soon enough, but they will be rookies next year and will likely go through the normal adjustment process.  Rather than add more certainty around those young guys, we’ve instead punted on using our “unprecedented financial flexibility” to address RF and are going with a complete wild card.  For context, the Phillies have added Harper, Realmuto, McCutcheon, Segura, & Gregorious on the positional side alone since going for it.  We got our one big addition in Grandal and then decided to get cute and/or cheap.  I don’t care how you slice this, this is not an optimal move for helping us win in 2020 and it burns an asset that could of helped us beyond that.  Honestly, this is the rare move that doesn’t help us in the near term or long run and that’s why it’s so damn frustrating.

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2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

It’s nonsensical if you are assuming that the Sox couldn’t have simply signed another outfielder with money alone for two years that could have performed just as well or possibly better than Mazara.  Corey Dickerson for one.

Yes why not sign Dickerson. You will get more HR and more 2B.

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5 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

OK, but you have him under control for two years.   You can't make something out of that in the meantime?   How is he being good a problem?   What am I missing? 

Just that the upside of the deal is limited. You could have signed Kole Calhoun for two years if you wanted a short term deal, and you wouldn’t have given up a prospect and you’d have a guy with a substantially more productive track record.

EDIT: or Corey Dickerson. 

Edited by Eminor3rd

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Right or wrong, the Sox clearly think they can unlock Nomar’s potential. This isn’t about comparing what Kole would contribute compared to what Nomar has done in the past.

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Going from Ozuna (warts and all) to Mazara seems to be....well, par for the course of being a White Sox fan and actually expecting good things to happen.

It's not unlike Charlie Brown kicking the football.

We never are going to sign a Machado or even Wheeler until we have new ownership.

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1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Except he's only overlapping for ONE year of our contention window without two more starting pitchers, a veteran RH reliever and a LOT more production out of DH/RF.

Not to mention he's in his final arbitration year in 2021, so that's going to limit the amount of talent we can bring in, operating on these imagined payroll ceilings in the $140's and $150's, since we have ZERO reason to believe they'll actually spend up to those levels after losing out on Wheeler (and knowing them won't pay up for Betts and/or Springer, who coincidentally are now "blocked" by Mazara, lol.)

In your scenario where Mazara is good and we're sad he leaves in 2021, then is he not contributing to the window being open? Still makes no sense. And the only scenario in which Mazara "Blocks" Betts/Springer is if he's very good. If he sucks, they can still sign whoever they want next year.

I repeat, there is no downside to acquiring a player cheaply who ends up being good. That shouldn't be a controversial statement. Whether or not he WILL be good is a different question.

 

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The issue is that we as Sox fans are forced to believe this is the big move... 
A very MEH player

We were told the Machado money would be spent, it still has not been spent and now we’re gonna be spoon fed by the White Sox Talk guys Mookie to the White Sox in 2020 

Jerry isn’t gonna spend the money it takes to put us over the top.

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This also gives us a pretty good idea about the industry-wide valuations on Adolfo, Rutherford, Gonzalez and Basabe...

At least Walker gets to go back closer to home, having played college ball at OU with Kyler Murray.

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To keep positive thoughts in mind:

Projected 2020 lineup (ignore the order, I'm not putting too much thought into it)

SS - Tim Anderson
CF - Luis Robert
3B - Yoan Moncada
1B - Jose Abreu
LF - Eloy Jimenez
C  - Yasmani Grandal
DH - James McCann
RF - Nomar Mazara
2B - Nick Madrigal

vs.

2019 (same order, cause whatever)

SS - Tim Anderson
CF - Engel/Cordell/Tilson
3B - Yoan Moncada
1B - Jose Abreu
LF - Eloy Jimenez
C - James McCann
DH - Yonder Alonso
RF - Ryan Cordell/Daniel Palka
2B - Yolmer Sanchez

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5 minutes ago, ScottyDo said:

In your scenario where Mazara is good and we're sad he leaves in 2021, then is he not contributing to the window being open? Still makes no sense. And the only scenario in which Mazara "Blocks" Betts/Springer is if he's very good. If he sucks, they can still sign whoever they want next year.

I repeat, there is no downside to acquiring a player cheaply who ends up being good. That shouldn't be a controversial statement. Whether or not he WILL be good is a different question.

 

Sure, he has ONE Avi season like 2017....creates false confidence for 2021, then falls flat on his face again.

We're talking a player with four years under his belt and a 1.7 combined fWAR for all that time.  Tatis, Jr., put up that number in less than one month.

Meanwhile, they don't bid on Betts, Springer or Brantley.

Edited by caulfield12

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22 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Who the fuck are we spending money on? Lmao.

They probably have it their demented minds they’ll make a run at Mookie next year.  I mean, they refused to even take a token run at Cole & Strasburg, but I’m sure they’ll pump themselves up for a half-assed Betts pursuit.  Let’s just hope that a bunch of the 2021 free agents don’t sign extensions beforehand or we will really be in a fucking predicament.

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1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

This also gives us a pretty good idea about the industry-wide valuations on Adolfo, Rutherford, Gonzalez and Basabe...

At least Walker gets to go back closer to home, having played college ball at OU with Kyler Murray.

Rutherford, Gonzalez, and Basabe could be DFAed tomorrow, and rival execs would shrug.

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2 minutes ago, Quin said:

To keep positive thoughts in mind:

Projected 2020 lineup (ignore the order, I'm not putting too much thought into it)

SS - Tim Anderson
CF - Luis Robert
3B - Yoan Moncada
1B - Jose Abreu
LF - Eloy Jimenez
C  - Yasmani Grandal
DH - James McCann
RF - Nomar Mazara
2B - Nick Madrigal

vs.

2019 (same order, cause whatever)

SS - Tim Anderson
CF - Engel/Cordell/Tilson
3B - Yoan Moncada
1B - Jose Abreu
LF - Eloy Jimenez
C - James McCann
DH - Yonder Alonso
RF - Ryan Cordell/Daniel Palka
2B - Yolmer Sanchez

It’s not crazy to think Mazara and Grandal alone add 8 wins. And that’s project Mazara for 1 WAR

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2 minutes ago, Quin said:

To keep positive thoughts in mind:

Projected 2020 lineup (ignore the order, I'm not putting too much thought into it)

SS - Tim Anderson
CF - Luis Robert
3B - Yoan Moncada
1B - Jose Abreu
LF - Eloy Jimenez
C  - Yasmani Grandal
DH - James McCann
RF - Nomar Mazara
2B - Nick Madrigal

vs.

2019 (same order, cause whatever)

SS - Tim Anderson
CF - Engel/Cordell/Tilson
3B - Yoan Moncada
1B - Jose Abreu
LF - Eloy Jimenez
C - James McCann
DH - Yonder Alonso
RF - Ryan Cordell/Daniel Palka
2B - Yolmer Sanchez

Definitely seems a handful of wins better. The problem is it started at 72. 

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