fathom Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, HakunaMachado said: I’ve been saying it for awhile - this deal I think is going to end up being Price/JBJ and a lot of cash for lesser tier prospects. Bradley has no spot on this roster post-Nomar acquisition 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, aeichhor said: No crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 When was the last time a trade was telegraphed this long before executing? I’m not wasting any energy on this. It was bogus from the jump. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 It appears that the two sides are not on the same page. The BoSox/Bloom might imagine that Madrigal is the second coming of Dustin Pedroia, and therefore, they consider him as a key to any deal with Hahn/WSox. That's not going to happen. Realistically, Bloom is not negotiating from a position of strength. So no worries, Hahn is not going to bail him out of bad contracts and send him one of our core players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 53 minutes ago, MeanJoeCrede said: What if its Madrigal and Vaughn for Price and Betts? Who would do that deal? Price is probably worth 45 million for us. His contract has 92 million remaining. So if this is for Price alone...give us Price + 47 million. We give Boston payroll relief plus our best wishes. Betts or Benintendi have some value but that value is something like Fulmer & 10 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, fathom said: Bradley has no spot on this roster post-Nomar acquisition Sure he does, if you put Mazara at DH and trade Collins+ for pitching help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, poppysox said: Price is probably worth 45 million for us. His contract has 92 million remaining. So if this is for Price alone...give us Price + 47 million. We give Boston payroll relief plus our best wishes. Betts or Benintendi have some value but that value is something like Fulmer & 10 million. Wade Miley would give you similar fWAR for $30 million less...Nova, Wood, McHugh, Walker, Teheran, etc. We have to stop thinking of David Price as the 2008 version with the high 90's fastball and killer slider. That guy is LONG gone, never to be heard from again. Not only that, but you're at least partially allowing Boston to retain Mookie Betts...and taking him as an option off the table for 2020-21. Do that, all of a sudden the Astros extend Springer, you're looking at only platoon bat Joc Pederson and an aging Brantley as your RF solutions. Not GOOD!!! Edited December 18, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 Just now, caulfield12 said: Sure he does, if you put Mazara at DH and trade Collins+ for pitching help. So why acquire a crappy hitting right fielder? He sucks, and your proposal including him would be awful for the Sox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, tray said: It appears that the two sides are not on the same page. The BoSox/Bloom might imagine that Madrigal is the second coming of Dustin Pedroia, and therefore, they consider him as a key to any deal with Hahn/WSox. That's not going to happen. Realistically, Bloom is not negotiating from a position of strength. So no worries, Hahn is not going to bail him out of bad contracts and send him one of our core players. Hahn and company are entirely to blame for the position they put themselves in. What do you think Bloom is thinking right now? He's thinking the Sox can't/won't deal with Boras, so any threat they might be making to sign Keuchel or Ryu is bunk. And they desperately are ready to compete after a painful rebuild. So, yeah, Bloom is negotiating from a position of strength and confidence, and the Sox ineptitude is the reason for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, fathom said: So why acquire a crappy hitting right fielder? He sucks, and your proposal including him would be awful for the Sox The proposal was $60 million to the White Sox, Price, JB Jr. for Collins and Tier C/D prospect. If we're going with all young pitchers and one veteran castoff, you can't have Robert out on an island with Mazara and Jimenez surrounding him. Mazara or Jimenez both belong at the DH spot, but Mazara is the obvious one to put there. That's the ONLY way they can realistically compete in 2020...if Bradley has one of his better offensive years and you get Mazara off the field so you have two strong defenders and make that a strength rather than a weakness. It doesn't matter, because it's not going to happen anyway. Hahn will want Benintendi, the Red Sox won't give up more than half Price's contract ($48 million) and Hahn's not going to trade Vaughn/Madrigal with Benintendi off the table, so it's pointless to even discuss. Edited December 18, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Price + $40M + JBJ for fringe 40 man filler sounds about right. Still insane to even mention Madrigal or Vaughn in that conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: The proposal was $60 million to the White Sox, Price, JB Jr. for Collins and Tier C/D prospect. If we're going with all young pitchers and one veteran castoff, you can't have Robert out on an island with Mazara and Jimenez surrounding him. Mazara or Jimenez both belong at the DH spot, but Mazara is the obvious one to put there. That's the ONLY way they can realistically compete in 2020...if Bradley has one of his better offensive years and you get Mazara off the field so you have two strong defenders and make that a strength rather than a weakness. It doesn't matter, because it's not going to happen anyway. Hahn will want Benintendi, the Red Sox won't give up more than half Price's contract ($48 million) and Hahn's not going to trade Vaughn/Madrigal with Benintendi off the table, so it's pointless to even discuss. You had Vaughn or Madrigal in your proposal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, fathom said: So why acquire a crappy hitting right fielder? He sucks, and your proposal including him would be awful for the Sox Yes, we already have one crappy hitting right fielder. Let’s not add another in JBJ. 2017: .726 OPS 2018: .717 OPS 2019: .738 OPS If the deal for Price doesn’t include Benintendi and cash for prospects like Collins and Rutherford, walk away and sign Ryu or Keuchel. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 Just now, Moan4Yoan said: Yes, we already have one crappy hitting right fielder. Let’s not add another in JBJ. 2017: .726 OPS 2018: .717 OPS 2019: .738 OPS If the deal for Price doesn’t include Benintendi and cash for prospects like Collins and Rutherford, walk away and sign Ryu or Keuchel. Couldn’t agree more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, fathom said: You had Vaughn or Madrigal in your proposal There's just no way that happens. #1, I'm one of the biggest Madrigal fans on here, that would be completely contrary to every argument why he's so important to this organization. Not to mention that he goes to the Red Sox and automatically becomes Pedroia, Jr. It's almost guaranteed. Like death and taxes. Since they're forcing Abreu onto the roster for 3 more years, Vaughn is MORE expendable, but that would STILL be idiotic to trade him...Hahn would rather have one more rebuilding year and sit it out than run the risk of a prospect trade blowing up in his face, especially if the starting rotation completely goes south and we end up with a 75 win team. Arguably, that SHOULD get him fired, but it probably wouldn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHahn Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: Hahn and company are entirely to blame for the position they put themselves in. What do you think Bloom is thinking right now? He's thinking the Sox can't/won't deal with Boras, so any threat they might be making to sign Keuchel or Ryu is bunk. And they desperately are ready to compete after a painful rebuild. So, yeah, Bloom is negotiating from a position of strength and confidence, and the Sox ineptitude is the reason for that. Any team that needs to unload a bad $96 million dollar contract in order to stay under the luxury tax is in a weak position. Look at the contracts the Cubs have been trying to move for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Why would JBJ be of any interest to us? Am I missing something? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Just now, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Why would JBJ be of any interest to us? Am I missing something? No, you aren’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, fathom said: Couldn’t agree more https://www.fangraphs.com/players/jackie-bradley-jr/12984/stats?position=OF Because of his defensive skills, JB Jr. is the textbook definition of a 2 fWAR outfielder (over the last three years). In fact, he's averaging 2.1 (over the last three), with a peak of 2.8. That still puts Mazara's fWAR numbers to shame. If you believe defense is important, like the Cubs did when they gave Heyward a boatload a money or the Royals with Alex Gordon, then it's something you at least have to consider if you actually want to compete in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I don't see how the Bosox can get a deal done with Ryu and Keuchel still on the board. Why would anyone in their right mind trade for Price when they could sign one of these guys. That said, the Sox can afford to overpay Price for three years if necessary given that most of the roster core is already in place at a payroll far below what they could reasonably sustain. At this point, it is obvious it's going to be up to Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Lopez and Dunning to give us the TOR arms we need. Sox just need someone above a bottom rotation arm, I could care less how much he's paid in the next two to three years. The guys we have now are the fall back options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Why would JBJ be of any interest to us? Am I missing something? When's the last time we had a consistent 2+ fWAR RFer? One that was above-average defensively? Sure, Avi had his one peak season in 2017, but other than that...you have to go back to Adam Eaton in the season before he was traded. (And very few around here wanted to sign Avi Garcia to a long-term extension, correct?) Before Eaton, it has been a wasteland of RFer's that takes you all the way back to peak Jermaine Dye in the middle 2000's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Yes, we already have one crappy hitting right fielder. Let’s not add another in JBJ. 2017: .726 OPS 2018: .717 OPS 2019: .738 OPS If the deal for Price doesn’t include Benintendi and cash for prospects like Collins and Rutherford, walk away and sign Ryu or Keuchel. Stop trolling. We are cornering the market. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: When's the last time we had a consistent 2+ fWAR RFer? One that was above-average defensively? Sure, Avi had his one peak season in 2017, but other than that...you have to go back to Adam Eaton in the season before he was traded. (And very few around here wanted to sign Avi Garcia to a long-term extension, correct?) Before Eaton, it has been a wasteland of RFer's that takes you all the way back to peak Jermaine Dye in the middle 2000's. Hahn already acquired Mazara cuz he thinks he will be that 2+ WAR guy going forward. I don’t agree with him but let’s not compound one bad trade for an outfielder with another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Just the fact that we've gone from Zack Wheeler to David Price and Teheran shows you the rebuild is in serious trouble if all the young pitchers don't fulfill their optimistic projections (and when has that ever happened?) You can't have two full years of PRIME Moncada/Giolito jeopardized by one Tommy John surgery to Kopech and one misread Zack Wheeler market (by the entire front office), following a severe misread on the Machado market the previous off-season... The Twins and Indians can survive those kind of misses. We are not yet in that position. We're the large market team in the AL Central. We have unprecedented financial flexibility, SUPPOSEDLY. Clelveland is abandoning ship and the Twins haven't done anything major other than keeping Odorizzi and Pineda in house. Yet we're acting like the freaking Royals in the 1990's and 2000's for god's sake. We have conservatively another $50 million in broadcast revenues coming in, as well. It's ridiculous that we're in this completely desperate position...instead of being on the offensive, and making some aggressive low-risk moves with the "rebound/bounceback" pitchers like Wood, Walker, McHugh, Teheran, etc. Edited December 18, 2019 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Why would JBJ be of any interest to us? Am I missing something? Drugs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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