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Matt Lisle speaks out

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This dovetails with some of the comments that Giolito made on the pitching side.  It made it sound like guys like him and Cease are dragging Coop kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

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For those that don't want to support the trolls and fearmongers at Soxmachine, what did he have to say? 

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1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

For those that don't want to support the trolls and fearmongers at Soxmachine, what did he have to say? 

Pretty much that the Sox didn't know what to do with him.

There's a link there to an article in the Athletic if you're a subscriber.

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10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

For those that don't want to support the trolls and fearmongers at Soxmachine, what did he have to say? 

It's an athletic.com article

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1 minute ago, TheTruth05 said:

It's an athletic.com article

Ahhh...just saw the josh nelson thing.  Can't access twitter links at work.  

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2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Ahhh...just saw the josh nelson thing.  Can't access twitter links at work.  

It's cool just wasn't sure if you noticed. either way @RTC pretty much nailed it, Sox didn't really know how to use Matt (according to him) and after alot of shuffling he left the org without doing much.

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21 minutes ago, RTC said:

This dovetails with some of the comments that Giolito made on the pitching side.  It made it sound like guys like him and Cease are dragging Coop kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

It's depressing to think how far behind teams like the Astros, Yankees, Rays, Dodgers etc the White Sox are at incorporating analytics into player development and coaching.

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29 minutes ago, RTC said:

Pretty much that the Sox didn't know what to do with him.

There's a link there to an article in the Athletic if you're a subscriber.

Yeah basically sox didn't have a real plan for him and old school coaches didn't understand the technology and data stuff.

Maybe it was also partially his fault, maybe he didn't dumb it down enough for them or he was too arrogant and they didn't even want to learn from him.

Some data nerds are just too snarky and arrogant and let anyone feel they are the smartest in the room and that isn't always well received. Kyle boddy also can be a huge jackass but he is smart enough to know when he can't do that.

Edited by Dominikk85
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32 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

The Sox are living in the Stone Age of baseball.

It’s never going to change, until you know who dies. Even then, the successor/benefactor/whomever may operate the organization top to bottom the same; but atleast then there’s a possibility of change. 

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Matt Lisle is not a dumb baseball man by any means, but can we stop with the over portrayal of his skill set? He's a softball coach right now; other "analytic" friendly organizations aren't exactly busting down his door. 

Matt Lisle is a good individual instructor, as of right now that's all he is. 

The Sox need more technology, and I am happy he tried to push it, but it's very possible he wasn't a great messenger and messaging is every bit as important as the data itself. These are the type of "the sky is falling" takes on the White Sox I just can't buy into. 

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32 minutes ago, RTC said:

This dovetails with some of the comments that Giolito made on the pitching side.  It made it sound like guys like him and Cease are dragging Coop kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

It actually sounded like the exact opposite; Giolito gave praise to Coopers willingness to evolve and change - something the White Sox fans will say isn't true. 

Gio very clearly said that Coop had bought all in with them, and was helping them.

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5 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Yeah basically sox didn't have a real plan for him and old school coaches didn't understand the technology and data stuff.

Maybe it was also partially his fault, maybe he didn't dumb it down enough for them or he was too arrogant and they didn't even want to learn from him.

And he failed at assisting them with understanding and accepting it.

Not all professionals in the working world speak the same lingo, and it's really important to speak to your audience to get them to buy into your change. Data is not enough to drive change; language and personality play a huge part of it. 

The organization was clearly willing to start integrating this, but Lisle apparently wasn't the best fit. Are they late to the party? Absolutely... but does the firing of Lisle signify they've quit on the mission? Of course not.

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6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And he failed at assisting them with understanding and accepting it.

Not all professionals in the working world speak the same lingo, and it's really important to speak to your audience to get them to buy into your change. Data is not enough to drive change; language and personality play a huge part of it. 

The organization was clearly willing to start integrating this, but Lisle apparently wasn't the best fit. Are they late to the party? Absolutely... but does the firing of Lisle signify they've quit on the mission? Of course not.

Shouldn’t the Sox already know the role and responsibilities they envision for a new position when they hire someone?

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7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Data is not enough to drive change; language and personality play a huge part of it. 

This is really why all these fangraphs guys keep getting FO jobs, much more than their actual analytical skills. 

Edited by mqr

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8 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Shouldn’t the Sox already know the role and responsibilities they envision for a new position when they hire someone?

They seemed to be caught up by not wanting to assign a title that would imply he is higher up than those he was trying to guide/assist/change. That part seemed like semantics to me.

At the end of the day, it was his job to get people to buy in and I am guessing messaging was the issue here. 

You work in IT; I think you understand where I'm going. People trust you, and what you have to say, but they don't understand it if you don't speak a language they can relate to. I have people at my job who hate numbers (ironic and sad given the industry) and my job - at times - is to build presentations for that audience. Part of that job is to speak in a way they can relate and understand to gain their confidence in what I am saying. 

As I said, no one is breaking down Matt Lisle's door. Smart individual instructor, and maybe that's just all he is.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They seemed to be caught up by not wanting to assign a title that would imply he is higher up than those he was trying to guide/assist/change. That part seemed like semantics to me.

At the end of the day, it was his job to get people to buy in and I am guessing messaging was the issue here. 

You work in IT; I think you understand where I'm going. People trust you, and what you have to say, but they don't understand it if you don't speak a language they can relate to. I have people at my job who hate numbers (ironic and sad given the industry) and my job - at times - is to build presentations for that audience. Part of that job is to speak in a way they can relate and understand to gain their confidence in what I am selling. 

As I said, no one is breaking down Matt Lisle's door either.

That makes sense.  I did notice he is now an assistant softball coach for Fresno State University.  I don’t know what the Sox paid him but that sure does seem to be a worse than lateral move.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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Anyone's know where Menechino profiles in his use of analytics?  Would he have influence over minors or is that strictly the domain of Getz?

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12 minutes ago, mqr said:

This is really why all these fangraphs guys keep getting FO jobs, much more than their actual analytical skills. 

Yes, this is a great point and something I never thought about before. 

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Matt Lisle is the baseball guy that softball moms follow on Facebook.  When the Sox hired him I assumed someone let Kenny google "Baseball Hitting New Skool".

He didn't say shit while he was here and bad mouthed the org on the way out.  Screw him. 

But with that being said can you imagine being the intern that has to turn on Coop's 2nd Gen Ipad every morning?

 

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5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, this is a great point and something I never thought about before. 

Pretty sure it was Cameron on Effectively Wild right after he was hired by the Padres that said he was hired to be a communicator. 

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Also, I admittedly judge people who post shit like this on social media:

What you do speaks louder than what you say, but let me say something anyway and post for the world to see! The guy also lists former hitting coach of Mizzou in his profile when the guy never even coached a single player there.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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