Why has Hahn failed?

[hi8is]

Because instead of using laundry detergent, he poured in straight bleach.

Ruined all his wife’s clothes.

[NCsoxfan]

9 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

This thread has aged well

I hope it ages terribly and every FA signing is a home run (after all, we all want the White Sox to succeed)...but obviously there’s no baseball games won in December.

Fwiw, Getting to the postseason in one of the next two seasons would be defined as success to me.

[ChiSox59]

On 12/14/2019 at 3:06 PM, ChiSox59 said:

The lack of activity at the WM has everyone on the ledge, and while the premium long term assets are gone, I do expect the Sox to fill in the gaps with interesting players.  We'll likely be looking at a roster that will need alot to go right in 2020 to be in the mix for the ALC come next August, but it will without a doubt be the most exciting Sox team we've watched since at least 2012.  Step off the ledge, friends.  Everything is going to be OK. 

Gonna go ahead and pat myself on the back for this one. 

[Jack Parkman]

This thread has aged horribly. 

I'm proud of myself for actually being positive in this thread. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[HeGone7]

4 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

This thread has aged horribly. 

I'm proud of myself for actually being positive in this thread. 

Always the guys on their high horse riding ignorance into the stable. None of the moves have even panned out yet. Yet, somehow you’re patting yourself on the back. Takes a special kind of mamaluke. Most of the fans against these moves (me being one of them, to an extent) recognize we should have netted better players w/our cap space. My expectations are different than others. I want to win at a very high level and win a lot. I don’t want to be the same Sox we were before where we “compete for the division”. It’s such a weak mindset. You build the best team in baseball. The division will take care of itself. But setting the bar at what we turned 2020 into is a joke & the hope is it doesn’t hinder us beyond 20’, when they potentially could be a serious contender.

An “average” starter they say is a 2-2.5war player. We’ve signed multiple guys like this. For a below average team, sure, it’s an improvement. For those of you only concerned w/being improved, these are great moves for you. For those of us with expectations beyond winning 87 games & taking the central, they’re underwhelming (and potentially awful) commitments made. How you have magically proven this thread has “aged poorly” w/these guys never playing an inning is comical. Who knew that because they signed a couple more 30 something players on the downward trend of their career, suddenly we should crown Hahn a great GM? It speaks to your own lack of belief in what you’re saying. It’s as if you need to say it as much as possible so that you can believe it yourself (or hope to). I bet you’re a Bernie guy.

When the Sox win a World Series with these above-average bums, then you can turn around and say it has aged poorly. Until that time, everyone who wanted/expected/comprehends that our free money was better spent on a Machado, Rendon, etc will be proven right. It’s hard enough to win. You’ve chosen, as an organization, to try and do so with mediocre additions. You rebuilt to have the luxury of signing those types of players (Machado’s/Rendon’s/etc) and pairing them w/your young core of elite players. Instead, we’ve now wasted the young players cap flexibility on longshots. We need Keuchel to become a guy he is incapable of being anymore. You need Edwin to cling to his mid-30’s and play more than 100 games. You need Mazara to show a pulse of his potential & you need to hope you don’t waste what’s left of Grandal’s career before your team as a whole is truly ready to win. Otherwise, you’re spending 18 million potentially on a 34/35 year old when it’ll matter most. 

That is, and will continue to be, Hahn’s evaluation for all of this. If we come up short of a World Series at any point during these contracts, the finger needs to be pointed at them & you people for not understanding how to maximize an opportunity. For those of you who just want a division title, then go enjoy your participation medals. For those of us who sat through / supported the rebuild with expectations of executing this stage and feeling like we’re scrambling on plan C right now, we aren’t fans. Depleting the farm would make matters worse but I still believe they know they need another superstar caliber player. How do you go from all-in on a 25 year old superstar to piece-mealing 30+ year old veterans and declaring this a victory. Make no mistake, this is no victory. This is “best we can do” and we’re hoping for a miracle IF they can steal the division. I didn’t sit through this crap to be back where we were w/Sale & company. 

Winning shit divisions and getting swept by Houston or NY isn’t going to feel any better than remaining below .500 an extra year and pushing your chips all-in on a Betts/adding more premium talent to your farm/letting your kids develop & not be rushed. It’s not going to feel better than 99 wins from a stacked lineup in the scenario where the money was well spent (Machado, Wheeler, etc - Plan A we’ll call it). Put all the lipstick on this you want to (or need to) but the Sox aren’t serious contenders for the WS as it stands today. Not even close. They’re not even better than the Cubs. 

But hey! The thread didn’t age well because some Jamoke played the season out in his head.

[Quin]

11 minutes ago, HeGone7 said:

Always the guys on their high horse riding ignorance into the stable. None of the moves have even panned out yet. Yet, somehow you’re patting yourself on the back. Takes a special kind of mamaluke. Most of the fans against these moves (me being one of them, to an extent) recognize we should have netted better players w/our cap space. My expectations are different than others. I want to win at a very high level and win a lot. I don’t want to be the same Sox we were before where we “compete for the division”. It’s such a weak mindset. You build the best team in baseball. The division will take care of itself. But setting the bar at what we turned 2020 into is a joke & the hope is it doesn’t hinder us beyond 20’, when they potentially could be a serious contender.

An “average” starter they say is a 2-2.5war player. We’ve signed multiple guys like this. For a below average team, sure, it’s an improvement. For those of you only concerned w/being improved, these are great moves for you. For those of us with expectations beyond winning 87 games & taking the central, they’re underwhelming (and potentially awful) commitments made. How you have magically proven this thread has “aged poorly” w/these guys never playing an inning is comical. Who knew that because they signed a couple more 30 something players on the downward trend of their career, suddenly we should crown Hahn a great GM? It speaks to your own lack of belief in what you’re saying. It’s as if you need to say it as much as possible so that you can believe it yourself (or hope to). I bet you’re a Bernie guy.

When the Sox win a World Series with these above-average bums, then you can turn around and say it has aged poorly. Until that time, everyone who wanted/expected/comprehends that our free money was better spent on a Machado, Rendon, etc will be proven right. It’s hard enough to win. You’ve chosen, as an organization, to try and do so with mediocre additions. You rebuilt to have the luxury of signing those types of players (Machado’s/Rendon’s/etc) and pairing them w/your young core of elite players. Instead, we’ve now wasted the young players cap flexibility on longshots. We need Keuchel to become a guy he is incapable of being anymore. You need Edwin to cling to his mid-30’s and play more than 100 games. You need Mazara to show a pulse of his potential & you need to hope you don’t waste what’s left of Grandal’s career before your team as a whole is truly ready to win. Otherwise, you’re spending 18 million potentially on a 34/35 year old when it’ll matter most. 

That is, and will continue to be, Hahn’s evaluation for all of this. If we come up short of a World Series at any point during these contracts, the finger needs to be pointed at them & you people for not understanding how to maximize an opportunity. For those of you who just want a division title, then go enjoy your participation medals. For those of us who sat through / supported the rebuild with expectations of executing this stage and feeling like we’re scrambling on plan C right now, we aren’t fans. Depleting the farm would make matters worse but I still believe they know they need another superstar caliber player. How do you go from all-in on a 25 year old superstar to piece-mealing 30+ year old veterans and declaring this a victory. Make no mistake, this is no victory. This is “best we can do” and we’re hoping for a miracle IF they can steal the division. I didn’t sit through this crap to be back where we were w/Sale & company. 

Winning shit divisions and getting swept by Houston or NY isn’t going to feel any better than remaining below .500 an extra year and pushing your chips all-in on a Betts/adding more premium talent to your farm/letting your kids develop & not be rushed. It’s not going to feel better than 99 wins from a stacked lineup in the scenario where the money was well spent (Machado, Wheeler, etc - Plan A we’ll call it). Put all the lipstick on this you want to (or need to) but the Sox aren’t serious contenders for the WS as it stands today. Not even close. They’re not even better than the Cubs. 

But hey! The thread didn’t age well because some Jamoke played the season out in his head.

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, HeGone7 said:

Always the guys on their high horse riding ignorance into the stable. None of the moves have even panned out yet. Yet, somehow you’re patting yourself on the back. Takes a special kind of mamaluke. Most of the fans against these moves (me being one of them, to an extent) recognize we should have netted better players w/our cap space. My expectations are different than others. I want to win at a very high level and win a lot. I don’t want to be the same Sox we were before where we “compete for the division”. It’s such a weak mindset. You build the best team in baseball. The division will take care of itself. But setting the bar at what we turned 2020 into is a joke & the hope is it doesn’t hinder us beyond 20’, when they potentially could be a serious contender.

An “average” starter they say is a 2-2.5war player. We’ve signed multiple guys like this. For a below average team, sure, it’s an improvement. For those of you only concerned w/being improved, these are great moves for you. For those of us with expectations beyond winning 87 games & taking the central, they’re underwhelming (and potentially awful) commitments made. How you have magically proven this thread has “aged poorly” w/these guys never playing an inning is comical. Who knew that because they signed a couple more 30 something players on the downward trend of their career, suddenly we should crown Hahn a great GM? It speaks to your own lack of belief in what you’re saying. It’s as if you need to say it as much as possible so that you can believe it yourself (or hope to). I bet you’re a Bernie guy.

When the Sox win a World Series with these above-average bums, then you can turn around and say it has aged poorly. Until that time, everyone who wanted/expected/comprehends that our free money was better spent on a Machado, Rendon, etc will be proven right. It’s hard enough to win. You’ve chosen, as an organization, to try and do so with mediocre additions. You rebuilt to have the luxury of signing those types of players (Machado’s/Rendon’s/etc) and pairing them w/your young core of elite players. Instead, we’ve now wasted the young players cap flexibility on longshots. We need Keuchel to become a guy he is incapable of being anymore. You need Edwin to cling to his mid-30’s and play more than 100 games. You need Mazara to show a pulse of his potential & you need to hope you don’t waste what’s left of Grandal’s career before your team as a whole is truly ready to win. Otherwise, you’re spending 18 million potentially on a 34/35 year old when it’ll matter most. 

That is, and will continue to be, Hahn’s evaluation for all of this. If we come up short of a World Series at any point during these contracts, the finger needs to be pointed at them & you people for not understanding how to maximize an opportunity. For those of you who just want a division title, then go enjoy your participation medals. For those of us who sat through / supported the rebuild with expectations of executing this stage and feeling like we’re scrambling on plan C right now, we aren’t fans. Depleting the farm would make matters worse but I still believe they know they need another superstar caliber player. How do you go from all-in on a 25 year old superstar to piece-mealing 30+ year old veterans and declaring this a victory. Make no mistake, this is no victory. This is “best we can do” and we’re hoping for a miracle IF they can steal the division. I didn’t sit through this crap to be back where we were w/Sale & company. 

Winning shit divisions and getting swept by Houston or NY isn’t going to feel any better than remaining below .500 an extra year and pushing your chips all-in on a Betts/adding more premium talent to your farm/letting your kids develop & not be rushed. It’s not going to feel better than 99 wins from a stacked lineup in the scenario where the money was well spent (Machado, Wheeler, etc - Plan A we’ll call it). Put all the lipstick on this you want to (or need to) but the Sox aren’t serious contenders for the WS as it stands today. Not even close. They’re not even better than the Cubs. 

But hey! The thread didn’t age well because some Jamoke played the season out in his head.

We could never convince Betts to sign in the first place without winning around 85 games or more.  Then we end up severely overpaying for 30-something Springer or spending $60-75 million for a platoon bat in Joc Pederson.

Look no further than the Northside for a team decimated even at the luxury tax level by a series of bad contracts like a Heyward, Darvish and Chatwood.   Two of those guys were “premiere” talents that haven’t worked out well.

[SonofaRoache]

Hahn has a chance to be successful but the facts are the facts, we have been horrible since he took over as GM. My belief was that he is limited by power hungry Kenny and penny pinching Jerry. This offseason has been a good one, but we shall see if it translates into wins. 

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Hahn has a chance to be successful but the facts are the facts, we have been horrible since he took over as GM. My belief was that he is limited by power hungry Kenny and penny pinching Jerry. This offseason has been a good one, but we shall see if it translates into wins. 

I’m mean, let’s be realistic here.  Not even the Dodgers are showering any FA’s with huge contracts.  While we can certainly afford one at that level, we can’t afford one to go bad.  Obviously,  Betts seems as safe a “bet” as any, but that’s always true at the beginning of most free agent contracts.  I guess Balta did a mini-study of some of the bigger pitching deals working out more often than not in recent years, but it’s almost impossible to predict with any degree of certainty which ones will turn out to be albatrosses.  For example, Cano signing with the Mariners...that turned into a disaster for that franchise that runs similar budgets to the White Sox.  Harper/Realmuto or Machado didn’t guarantee playoff spots for their acquiring teams, either.

Edited December 26, 2019 by caulfield12

[pcq]

Just now, HeGone7 said:

Always the guys on their high horse riding ignorance into the stable. None of the moves have even panned out yet. Yet, somehow you’re patting yourself on the back. Takes a special kind of mamaluke. Most of the fans against these moves (me being one of them, to an extent) recognize we should have netted better players w/our cap space. My expectations are different than others. I want to win at a very high level and win a lot. I don’t want to be the same Sox we were before where we “compete for the division”. It’s such a weak mindset. You build the best team in baseball. The division will take care of itself. But setting the bar at what we turned 2020 into is a joke & the hope is it doesn’t hinder us beyond 20’, when they potentially could be a serious contender.

An “average” starter they say is a 2-2.5war player. We’ve signed multiple guys like this. For a below average team, sure, it’s an improvement. For those of you only concerned w/being improved, these are great moves for you. For those of us with expectations beyond winning 87 games & taking the central, they’re underwhelming (and potentially awful) commitments made. How you have magically proven this thread has “aged poorly” w/these guys never playing an inning is comical. Who knew that because they signed a couple more 30 something players on the downward trend of their career, suddenly we should crown Hahn a great GM? It speaks to your own lack of belief in what you’re saying. It’s as if you need to say it as much as possible so that you can believe it yourself (or hope to). I bet you’re a Bernie guy.

When the Sox win a World Series with these above-average bums, then you can turn around and say it has aged poorly. Until that time, everyone who wanted/expected/comprehends that our free money was better spent on a Machado, Rendon, etc will be proven right. It’s hard enough to win. You’ve chosen, as an organization, to try and do so with mediocre additions. You rebuilt to have the luxury of signing those types of players (Machado’s/Rendon’s/etc) and pairing them w/your young core of elite players. Instead, we’ve now wasted the young players cap flexibility on longshots. We need Keuchel to become a guy he is incapable of being anymore. You need Edwin to cling to his mid-30’s and play more than 100 games. You need Mazara to show a pulse of his potential & you need to hope you don’t waste what’s left of Grandal’s career before your team as a whole is truly ready to win. Otherwise, you’re spending 18 million potentially on a 34/35 year old when it’ll matter most. 

That is, and will continue to be, Hahn’s evaluation for all of this. If we come up short of a World Series at any point during these contracts, the finger needs to be pointed at them & you people for not understanding how to maximize an opportunity. For those of you who just want a division title, then go enjoy your participation medals. For those of us who sat through / supported the rebuild with expectations of executing this stage and feeling like we’re scrambling on plan C right now, we aren’t fans. Depleting the farm would make matters worse but I still believe they know they need another superstar caliber player. How do you go from all-in on a 25 year old superstar to piece-mealing 30+ year old veterans and declaring this a victory. Make no mistake, this is no victory. This is “best we can do” and we’re hoping for a miracle IF they can steal the division. I didn’t sit through this crap to be back where we were w/Sale & company. 

Winning shit divisions and getting swept by Houston or NY isn’t going to feel any better than remaining below .500 an extra year and pushing your chips all-in on a Betts/adding more premium talent to your farm/letting your kids develop & not be rushed. It’s not going to feel better than 99 wins from a stacked lineup in the scenario where the money was well spent (Machado, Wheeler, etc - Plan A we’ll call it). Put all the lipstick on this you want to (or need to) but the Sox aren’t serious contenders for the WS as it stands today. Not even close. They’re not even better than the Cubs. 

But hey! The thread didn’t age well because some Jamoke played the season out in his head.

Pointless. Let It Ride. 

[wrathofhahn]

8 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

This thread has aged horribly. 

I'm proud of myself for actually being positive in this thread. 

It hasn't aged horribly at all. If anything these moves have further proved the FO can't be trusted after wildly overpaying for the likes of Abreu and Edwin 1B/DH other teams are paying 6-8 million AAV for.

If anything my handle hasn't aged well. It's nuts that there is a decent chance both Puig and Nick will make less then Abreu and Edwin.

Edited December 26, 2019 by wrathofhahn

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

It hasn't aged horribly at all. If anything these moves have further proved the FO can't be trusted after wildly overpaying for the likes of Abreu and Edwin 1B/DH other teams are paying 6-8 million AAV for.

If anything my handle hasn't aged well. It's nuts that there is a decent chance both Puig and Nick will make less then Abreu and Edwin.

Puig has been a 1.5-2.0 fWAR player for many years now.

I haven’t seen anyone other than Villar or Cesar Hernandez getting contracts up in that range,

If Moncada or Robert sign extensions due to the continued presence of Abreu...how many more millions is that worth?   If Abreu, Grandal and Encarnacion have positive mentoring relationships with the young hitters like Mazara, Robert, Jimenez and Moncada, how much is that worth?  

If Puig tears up the chemistry of another clubhouse, especially impressionable 1st and 2nd year players, how much long-term damage can that incur?

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

It hasn't aged horribly at all. If anything these moves have further proved the FO can't be trusted after wildly overpaying for the likes of Abreu and Edwin 1B/DH other teams are paying 6-8 million AAV for.

If anything my handle hasn't aged well. It's nuts that there is a decent chance both Puig and Nick will make less then Abreu and Edwin.

Lol...Puig sucks, has a cancerous attitude, and is a worse than both Abreu & EE.  As for Castellanos, his AAV will be higher than EE’s and he should get four years rather than one, so no idea what you’re talking about there.  Abreu may ultimately have a similar AAV to Nick, but that’s called a Jerry Special and not really an implication of Hahn if I had to guess.

[Panerista]

6 hours ago, HeGone7 said:

Always the guys on their high horse riding ignorance into the stable. None of the moves have even panned out yet. Yet, somehow you’re patting yourself on the back. Takes a special kind of mamaluke. Most of the fans against these moves (me being one of them, to an extent) recognize we should have netted better players w/our cap space. My expectations are different than others. I want to win at a very high level and win a lot. I don’t want to be the same Sox we were before where we “compete for the division”. It’s such a weak mindset. You build the best team in baseball. The division will take care of itself. But setting the bar at what we turned 2020 into is a joke & the hope is it doesn’t hinder us beyond 20’, when they potentially could be a serious contender.

An “average” starter they say is a 2-2.5war player. We’ve signed multiple guys like this. For a below average team, sure, it’s an improvement. For those of you only concerned w/being improved, these are great moves for you. For those of us with expectations beyond winning 87 games & taking the central, they’re underwhelming (and potentially awful) commitments made. How you have magically proven this thread has “aged poorly” w/these guys never playing an inning is comical. Who knew that because they signed a couple more 30 something players on the downward trend of their career, suddenly we should crown Hahn a great GM? It speaks to your own lack of belief in what you’re saying. It’s as if you need to say it as much as possible so that you can believe it yourself (or hope to). I bet you’re a Bernie guy.

When the Sox win a World Series with these above-average bums, then you can turn around and say it has aged poorly. Until that time, everyone who wanted/expected/comprehends that our free money was better spent on a Machado, Rendon, etc will be proven right. It’s hard enough to win. You’ve chosen, as an organization, to try and do so with mediocre additions. You rebuilt to have the luxury of signing those types of players (Machado’s/Rendon’s/etc) and pairing them w/your young core of elite players. Instead, we’ve now wasted the young players cap flexibility on longshots. We need Keuchel to become a guy he is incapable of being anymore. You need Edwin to cling to his mid-30’s and play more than 100 games. You need Mazara to show a pulse of his potential & you need to hope you don’t waste what’s left of Grandal’s career before your team as a whole is truly ready to win. Otherwise, you’re spending 18 million potentially on a 34/35 year old when it’ll matter most. 

That is, and will continue to be, Hahn’s evaluation for all of this. If we come up short of a World Series at any point during these contracts, the finger needs to be pointed at them & you people for not understanding how to maximize an opportunity. For those of you who just want a division title, then go enjoy your participation medals. For those of us who sat through / supported the rebuild with expectations of executing this stage and feeling like we’re scrambling on plan C right now, we aren’t fans. Depleting the farm would make matters worse but I still believe they know they need another superstar caliber player. How do you go from all-in on a 25 year old superstar to piece-mealing 30+ year old veterans and declaring this a victory. Make no mistake, this is no victory. This is “best we can do” and we’re hoping for a miracle IF they can steal the division. I didn’t sit through this crap to be back where we were w/Sale & company. 

Winning shit divisions and getting swept by Houston or NY isn’t going to feel any better than remaining below .500 an extra year and pushing your chips all-in on a Betts/adding more premium talent to your farm/letting your kids develop & not be rushed. It’s not going to feel better than 99 wins from a stacked lineup in the scenario where the money was well spent (Machado, Wheeler, etc - Plan A we’ll call it). Put all the lipstick on this you want to (or need to) but the Sox aren’t serious contenders for the WS as it stands today. Not even close. They’re not even better than the Cubs. 

But hey! The thread didn’t age well because some Jamoke played the season out in his head.

“Above average bums”. Go back to Wrigley

[wrathofhahn]

33 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Puig has been a 1.5-2.0 fWAR player for many years now.

I haven’t seen anyone other than Villar or Cesar Hernandez getting contracts up in that range,

If Moncada or Robert sign extensions due to the continued presence of Abreu...how many more millions is that worth?   If Abreu, Grandal and Encarnacion have positive mentoring relationships with the young hitters like Mazara, Robert, Jimenez and Moncada, how much is that worth?  

If Puig tears up the chemistry of another clubhouse, especially impressionable 1st and 2nd year players, how much long-term damage can that incur?

 

Baseball refernce has him averaging 3.9 WAR/650 PA his career and 3.2 WAR/650 PA the last three years but more importantly he is 29 and Edwin is 37. 

I am not interested in signing 12m players to "mentor" young players this team was one of the worst last year it needs TALENT. You want a mentor go sign a former player for a couple of hundred G's to join the staff.

Smoak went for 1/5 with a team option. Abreu signed for 3/50. We could have filled our holes at 1B/DH for a heck of a lot less then 29 million in 2020. I said at the beginning if the FO wants to not pay attention to cost opportunity and just go out and overpay for guys fine whatever it's not my money but if they as a result lose out on other guys because of that then that is a problem. 

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

Baseball refernce has him averaging 3.9 WAR/650 PA his career and 3.2 WAR/650 PA the last three years but more importantly he is 29 and Edwin is 37. 

I am not interested in signing 12m players to "mentor" young players this team was one of the worst last year it needs TALENT. You want a mentor go sign a former player for a couple of hundred G's to join the staff.

Smoak went for 1/5 with a team option. Abreu signed for 3/50. We could have filled our holes at 1B/DH for a heck of a lot less then 29 million in 2020. I said at the beginning if the FO wants to not pay attention to cost opportunity and just go out and overpay for guys fine whatever it's not my money but if they as a result lose out on other guys because of that then that is a problem. 

That’s because of 2013 and 2014.

Realistically, he’s not capable of being a 650 at-bat player anymore due to his splits.   
 

He has been worth 1.8 and then 1.2 fWAR the last two years...projected for 1.9 by Steamer.   Mazara’s projected to produce roughly the same numbers at $5-6 million and won’t impact the clubhouse in any way but positively.

If it was the 2013-14 version of Puig, and he hadn’t worn out his welcome in LA and Cincy and probably with Francona, he’d be getting a $250 million contract instead of just $25 million.   He’s the baseball equivalent of Josh Gordon.

[MeanJoeCrede]

7 hours ago, HeGone7 said:

Always the guys on their high horse riding ignorance into the stable. None of the moves have even panned out yet. Yet, somehow you’re patting yourself on the back. Takes a special kind of mamaluke. Most of the fans against these moves (me being one of them, to an extent) recognize we should have netted better players w/our cap space. My expectations are different than others. I want to win at a very high level and win a lot. I don’t want to be the same Sox we were before where we “compete for the division”. It’s such a weak mindset. You build the best team in baseball. The division will take care of itself. But setting the bar at what we turned 2020 into is a joke & the hope is it doesn’t hinder us beyond 20’, when they potentially could be a serious contender.

An “average” starter they say is a 2-2.5war player. We’ve signed multiple guys like this. For a below average team, sure, it’s an improvement. For those of you only concerned w/being improved, these are great moves for you. For those of us with expectations beyond winning 87 games & taking the central, they’re underwhelming (and potentially awful) commitments made. How you have magically proven this thread has “aged poorly” w/these guys never playing an inning is comical. Who knew that because they signed a couple more 30 something players on the downward trend of their career, suddenly we should crown Hahn a great GM? It speaks to your own lack of belief in what you’re saying. It’s as if you need to say it as much as possible so that you can believe it yourself (or hope to). I bet you’re a Bernie guy.

When the Sox win a World Series with these above-average bums, then you can turn around and say it has aged poorly. Until that time, everyone who wanted/expected/comprehends that our free money was better spent on a Machado, Rendon, etc will be proven right. It’s hard enough to win. You’ve chosen, as an organization, to try and do so with mediocre additions. You rebuilt to have the luxury of signing those types of players (Machado’s/Rendon’s/etc) and pairing them w/your young core of elite players. Instead, we’ve now wasted the young players cap flexibility on longshots. We need Keuchel to become a guy he is incapable of being anymore. You need Edwin to cling to his mid-30’s and play more than 100 games. You need Mazara to show a pulse of his potential & you need to hope you don’t waste what’s left of Grandal’s career before your team as a whole is truly ready to win. Otherwise, you’re spending 18 million potentially on a 34/35 year old when it’ll matter most. 

That is, and will continue to be, Hahn’s evaluation for all of this. If we come up short of a World Series at any point during these contracts, the finger needs to be pointed at them & you people for not understanding how to maximize an opportunity. For those of you who just want a division title, then go enjoy your participation medals. For those of us who sat through / supported the rebuild with expectations of executing this stage and feeling like we’re scrambling on plan C right now, we aren’t fans. Depleting the farm would make matters worse but I still believe they know they need another superstar caliber player. How do you go from all-in on a 25 year old superstar to piece-mealing 30+ year old veterans and declaring this a victory. Make no mistake, this is no victory. This is “best we can do” and we’re hoping for a miracle IF they can steal the division. I didn’t sit through this crap to be back where we were w/Sale & company. 

Winning shit divisions and getting swept by Houston or NY isn’t going to feel any better than remaining below .500 an extra year and pushing your chips all-in on a Betts/adding more premium talent to your farm/letting your kids develop & not be rushed. It’s not going to feel better than 99 wins from a stacked lineup in the scenario where the money was well spent (Machado, Wheeler, etc - Plan A we’ll call it). Put all the lipstick on this you want to (or need to) but the Sox aren’t serious contenders for the WS as it stands today. Not even close. They’re not even better than the Cubs. 

But hey! The thread didn’t age well because some Jamoke played the season out in his head.

Make up your mind. Do you want to sign generational players and build the best team in MLB or do you want to sign 1B/DH for less than $29M as you said later? Best players in the game at 1B and DH are gonna cost you a hell of alot more than $29M. We sign Smoak for $5M and you'd be the first guy to crucify Hahn (and me and everybody else would be right behind you). You wanna add Puig after saying we need to build the best team in MLB? Absolute joke, he might be about the 8th best available right fielder and probably not in the  top 20 RF in the game. It's easy to have hindsight and pick apart every move, but bottom line:

LOOK AT THESE UPGRADES

Robert > Engel 

Mazara > Cordell, etc

Madrigal > Yolmer

Grandal > McCann 

McCann > Castillo

Encarnacion > Alonso

Keuchel > Nova

Gio > Covey/Detwiller/Santana/Banuelos 

 

[mqr]

3 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

It hasn't aged horribly at all. If anything these moves have further proved the FO can't be trusted after wildly overpaying for the likes of Abreu and Edwin 1B/DH other teams are paying 6-8 million AAV for.

If anything my handle hasn't aged well. It's nuts that there is a decent chance both Puig and Nick will make less then Abreu and Edwin.

I will eat my hat if Nick Castellenos makes less money than Abreu or EE. And Puig sucks.

Thinking 1/12 for Encarnacion is a WILD overpay is hilarious.

Edited December 26, 2019 by mqr

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, mqr said:

I will eat my hat if Nick Castellenos makes less money than Abreu or EE. And Puig sucks.

Thinking 1/12 for Encarnacion is a WILD overpay is hilarious.

He clearly has done no research to support his statements and is just shooting from the hip.

[Panerista]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He clearly has done no research to support his statements and is just shooting from the hip.

This week has been so telling around here. The dark clouds are showing themselves in arguably the best offseason in White Sox history. 

[SonofaRoache]

40 minutes ago, mqr said:

I will eat my hat if Nick Castellenos makes less money than Abreu or EE. And Puig sucks.

Thinking 1/12 for Encarnacion is a WILD overpay is hilarious.

I don't mind over payments on one year deals, or 3/4 year deals for younger talent. Sometimes you have to pay to play with the big boys, and that is all you can ask for as a Sox fan. Now, I still think we need to enter the star pitcher sweepstakes at some point, but we have time and enough talent to wait. 

[gdane]

The complacency around here is quite telling.  If the general consensus around White Sox fandom is that signing 3rd/4th tier free agents to fill holes previously occupied by below replacement level bodies is good enough to "win" off-seasons, then its no wonder that Hahn and Co. aren't players for the top-flight free agents.  They don't need to be.  What an absolute crime.

[ptatc]

5 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Hahn has a chance to be successful but the facts are the facts, we have been horrible since he took over as GM. My belief was that he is limited by power hungry Kenny and penny pinching Jerry. This offseason has been a good one, but we shall see if it translates into wins. 

KW evil incaranate

[steveno89]

14 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Gonna go ahead and pat myself on the back for this one. 

Great post.

We all were disappointed at the winter meetings for the Sox, but the front office has delivered and still is not likely done. 

Fans need to wait until late March to really get an idea of how the roster is going to shake out. Until then, patience. Hahn and Co. knew they could not squander this offseason, and substantial moves needed to be made to help 2020 not be a lost season in a winnable AL Central. 

I really like how we are still well positioned to make a splash or two in next year's free agency, with Colome/McCann/Herrera/possibly Encarnacion? all coming off the books. 

[Panerista]

On 12/26/2019 at 10:25 AM, gdane said:

The complacency around here is quite telling.  If the general consensus around White Sox fandom is that signing 3rd/4th tier free agents to fill holes previously occupied by below replacement level bodies is good enough to "win" off-seasons, then its no wonder that Hahn and Co. aren't players for the top-flight free agents.  They don't need to be.  What an absolute crime.

We are only saying what experts are saying. Maybe you should try reading?

Edited December 28, 2019 by Eloy Jiménez