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Why has Hahn failed?

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20 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Go read Hahn’s quotes.  They are far more hilarious.

Comparatively, I would agree. More thoughtful and informative as well.

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6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Comparatively, I would agree. More thoughtful and informative as well.

We are all a little frustrated.

But I know you are expecting a Keuchel signing.

So I assume you will be as pissed off as the rest of us if that signing doesn’t happen.

 

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

We are all a little frustrated.

But I know you are expecting a Keuchel signing.

So I assume you will be as pissed off as the rest of us if that signing doesn’t happen.

 

This is what you call a little frustrated?

As I said in the other thread, I will be disappointed but not pissed. It's a game. Its entertainment.  It's not life. I save my anger for the semi who ran a red light today and ran me into the ditch. 

All I care about is if they carry through with the plan to put a competitive team on the field and start competing  for the playoffs. How they do it is up to them. If they dont come, they should be fired. But I'm not going to start a riot over it. 

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He actually hasn't failed yet though I am 100 percent against tanking. He still has a chance to win with the youth he acquired. Again, I'd like to speed things up but if the Sox actually start winning in the year he tells the world we finally are trying to win, he would be a success. He still has not designated the upcoming season as one in which they expect to win. Until he does so he can keep rebuilding and not be deemed a failure.

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I'm not even sure what to think about some of this stuff. Is Hahn having a hard time selling the White Sox to players around the league? If so, isn't that his own fault, along with Kenny Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf? I mean, they are the ones that have led this franchise in to black hole that it's been stuck in for so long.

I 100% get people being pissed off. You can only take so much. After all these years of horrible teams, I think a lot of us let our guard down and thought we were going to kill it this winter. And they started with a bang in signing Grandal - but it's been a giant fizzle since then. Same ole White Sox.

In the end, it's probably Reinsdorf's fault more than anyone else. If he was willing to pay Gerrit Cole's, or Manny Machado's or Patrick Corban's, we'd probably have one or more of them. Unfortunately he chooses to run the White Sox like they are the Pittsburgh Pirates.

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Free agency with the big tunas is a krap shoot so I would not judge harshly. Overpaying can be disastrous and good business judgment is essential. If you want to be critical you might wonder if players and agents steer away from Chicago which would be a serious problem. Letting second tier pitchers sign elsewhere while we fiddle is also a valid issue. We could have signed guys like Roark eg but nothing has happened. I think this org struggles with defining the White Sox way. The Sox should emulate the skills of Tampa to become a lesser market version of the Mets without their tragicomic elements. Rick at least has some business acumen. My vision for this org with an older chairman would be to bring Mark Cuban in with vesting control under a plan of succession and financial input. There is also an excellent local candidate in Marcus Lemonis were he so inclined. 

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9 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said:

Also didn't the Rays make the playoffs last year with one of the lowest payrolls in the game? It's not all about money!!!

Not to mention they just made a savvy pick-up with Tsutsugo... those are the crafty moves a low-budget team needs to make, which they (A's, etc.) do consistently and Hahn does not. He's a JV GM who is out of his depth yet we will have to live with him because JR Scrooge cares more about hoarding dollars than winning.

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A+ for turning team friendly contracts into high end prospects.  C for the draft.   D for scouting.  D in trades.  D-/F in player development.  F in free agency (execution and approach).  F for adding meaningful long term pieces to the rebuild outside of the draft.  

Rick Hahn works within some ownership level constraints that do tie his hands so he can't be blamed entirely.  I don't know if a different GM would be different or better, But other franchises operate under similar financial constraint/limitations but seem to have more success in these areas.  

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2 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

A+ for turning team friendly contracts into high end prospects.  C for the draft.   D for scouting.  D in trades.  D-/F in player development.  F in free agency (execution and approach).  F for adding meaningful long term pieces to the rebuild outside of the draft.  

Rick Hahn works within some ownership level constraints that do tie his hands so he can't be blamed entirely.  I don't know if a different GM would be different or better, But other franchises operate under similar financial constraint/limitations but seem to have more success in these areas.  

But how similar are those other organizations? Is Reinsdorf allowing Hahn or Williams to spend on scouting, international free agents, analytics, etc...like some of these successful smaller market teams? To me that is questionable. I'm not defending Hahn, because I agree with all your grades. I just wonder if everyone's hands are tied by Reinsdorf's cheapskate ways?

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10 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Chicago loves to over love players who play the game The White Way.  

What are you trying to accomplish here?

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Agree with others on some stuff. His lack of commitment to international and then only slowly starting to modernize their PD team after already aligning the future of his tenure to young prospects is just idiotic to me.

Some stuff like the draft feel better, but I’m not sure they are. Take away his superior draft position and it is hard to tell, still next to no success in rounds 2-10.

So regardless of his money constraints affecting FA, he put himself in a position to rely on big impacts from FA because he has been so terrible in the organic levers of team building.

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33 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Is Reinsdorf allowing Hahn or Williams to spend on scouting, international free agents, analytics, etc...like some of these successful smaller market teams?

Considering some of our own prospects were coming out last season and saying they are just getting some analytical data now (some admitted they didn't even have any at the lower levels/had more data in college than the Sox system) I'd say probably not. 

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11 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Chicago loves to over love players who play the game The White Way.  

Reinsdorf, Hahn, and Kenny suck IMO but this is ridiculous racist trash.  Chicago likes good players, regardless of race or creed.

Edited by Moan4Yoan
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23 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Considering some of our own prospects were coming out last season and saying they are just getting some analytical data now (some admitted they didn't even have any at the lower levels/had more data in college than the Sox system) I'd say probably not. 

I don’t care what people say, a VP like Hahn who oversees all of that is responsible for making his owner understand the value of that budget. It’s minuscule compared to payroll (which isn’t large) 

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9 hours ago, Nardiwashere said:

People have legitimately lost their minds.  It’s mid-December.  They signed the best catcher on the market.  Then they offered their top SP choice 125 million dollars.  If they did that during the winter meetings instead of the 2 weeks leading up to the meeting, people would be happy.

Sox fans have turned into a bunch of whiny, panicky, wimps.  Get a hold of yourselves.  

The fanbase is in hysterics.  And why? Because they signed an average player who may or may not be the 7th hitter when all is said and done?  

 

I think you and I didn't realize rosters were frozen as of yesterday. 

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8 hours ago, ptatc said:

This is what you call a little frustrated?

As I said in the other thread, I will be disappointed but not pissed. It's a game. Its entertainment.  It's not life. I save my anger for the semi who ran a red light today and ran me into the ditch. 

All I care about is if they carry through with the plan to put a competitive team on the field and start competing  for the playoffs. How they do it is up to them. If they dont come, they should be fired. But I'm not going to start a riot over it. 

Nice post. I agree. Its the way I feel. I love the sox, but I can move on without them. 

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Has it dawned on fans that Hahn hasn't failed? The White Sox have been more profitable during Hahns tenure. As long as the franchise is making nothing but money JR and Hahn are content with this situation.

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Just now, Nardiwashere said:

People have legitimately lost their minds.  It’s mid-December.  They signed the best catcher on the market.  Then they offered their top SP choice 125 million dollars.  If they did that during the winter meetings instead of the 2 weeks leading up to the meeting, people would be happy.

Sox fans have turned into a bunch of whiny, panicky, wimps.  Get a hold of yourselves.  

The fanbase is in hysterics.  And why? Because they signed an average player who may or may not be the 7th hitter when all is said and done?  

 

Call me old school but a 24 yoa with a 100 RBI season is not yet a failure. If he wants to play he will listen and change his swing. Meanwhile they could sign Ozuna and an SP right now and move forward. 

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13 hours ago, MysterySource5000 said:

I think he thought Jerry would actually spend money.

Rather, Jerry meant he would only spend more than he has ever spent (Grandal).

Honestly, it is embarrassing that we have zero $100 million contracts.  I mean, KC has had one and we have not.  

The top 3 Angels: Trout, Pujols and Rendon will make more than the entire White Sox roster next year.

This will not win you baseball games, not consistently, not multiple championships.  

 

The Angels & the White Sox each won 72 games last year.  Interesting to follow if super stars surrounded by crapola or stars surrounded by solid players wins those games and championships.

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Hahn is not a failure yet even with this disappointing off season so far.  What has been demonstrated is that the White Sox will not act like a large market team and so Hahn will have to find other ways to build a winning team. Players like Cole and Rendon are not going to come here.

Even if fans will be patient with another losing or non-contending team in 2020, the rebuild excuse is a hand that can't be played anymore.  Winning in the low Seventies is not going to cut it any more. I don't want to hear empty more promises.

What ticked me off was not the fact that the Sox didn't sign someone like Cole. What is infuriating about Hahn is that he talks big. He should do his job and let his actions speak for themselves.  I want more progress and less talk. It is time to build, not rebuild. Now, how is he going to do that? Let him prove how successful he can be.

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3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

The Angels & the White Sox each won 72 games last year.  Interesting to follow if super stars surrounded by crapola or stars surrounded by solid players wins those games and championships.

Angels were in a markedly tougher division

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11 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Angels were in a markedly tougher division

The Twins won 101 games.......The Astros won 107. Not a huge difference. 

All that really matters is the top team in the division. You have to beat that number. 

 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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IMO you need to trade for or draft and develop your stars.  Free agency works great for filling the holes with solid players at reasonable cost.  When you use free agency to buy your stars you overpay and the affect of that overpay comes back to bite you halfway through the contract.  Grandal is an example of a very good FA signing.  I have no doubt he will be a very nice addition for the duration of his contract.  Albert Pujols is a good example of a top super star of the highest quality possible invariably can't live up to the extreme contract.  I understand that nothing in baseball is 100%.  There are a few examples of super star signings working out more or less.  There are numerous examples of these overpaid super stars hamstringing their respect clubs for years.

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