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Sleepy Harold

White Sox sign Gio Gonzalez

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1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

That’s not apples to apples. You’re talking about giving some 200 ABs and a taste of big leagues and an off season to work on kinks vs calling up someone early by a month at the start of the season. How many wins less would Sox have last year if Eloy started the first month in the minors? 1,2? If that.

It is about development, if you are rebuilding. Not holding talent back to save a buck. They did it will Robert too, he was ready at the end of the season to come up. I would argue Madrigal was as well.

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19 minutes ago, Cashman said:

It is about development, if you are rebuilding. Not holding talent back to save a buck. They did it will Robert too, he was ready at the end of the season to come up. I would argue Madrigal was as well.

Please stop.

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1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

Okay, I’ll play:  if they are hell-bent on competing this year, how come Kopech, Robert, and Madrigal are all starting in the minors?  And we know that before Soxfest.  If they compete, it’s a bonus.  To them, it’s the final year of the rebuild.

The Cubs played the service time game with Bryant in 2015 and went to the NLCS.  I don't think that was because the Cubs somehow decided not to compete. 

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21 minutes ago, Cashman said:

It is about development, if you are rebuilding. Not holding talent back to save a buck. They did it will Robert too, he was ready at the end of the season to come up. I would argue Madrigal was as well.

Robert and Madrigal played at 3 levels already last season, and both played more games than they’ve ever had by a long shot. There was little to gain by forcing a promotion at that point. Sure, service clock played a role in that.

Would that have made them both more ready to play this season? Surely. But even without doing so,  this team have enough talent after one more SP addition and will be in the ALC or WC race this year.

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Right now it could be Gio2 and No Va to round out our staff. I would prob. sign Ivanho even as an extra because of injuries and depth concerns. It takes  a 31 person staff to navigate 162 games. Our prospects for the last few FA's are unknown to doubtful.

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2 hours ago, Timmy U said:

Okay, I’ll play:  if they are hell-bent on competing this year, how come Kopech, Robert, and Madrigal are all starting in the minors?  And we know that before Soxfest.  If they compete, it’s a bonus.  To them, it’s the final year of the rebuild.

Didn’t we know Eloy was going to start the season in the minors last year?  I wouldn’t put Madrigal or Robert signing extensions before OD.  Kopech will almost certainly start the year in the minors, but by doing so they can better manage his innings and his improve his odds of being available down the stretch.

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14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Didn’t we know Eloy was going to start the season in the minors last year?  I wouldn’t put Madrigal or Robert signing extensions before OD.  Kopech will almost certainly start the year in the minors, but by doing so they can better manage his innings and his improve his odds of being available down the stretch.

Yes, but for that person's point - it was not in the least due to his performance, it was entirely due to manipulating his free agent calendar. Based on performance alone and doing the best thing possible for his development, he'd have been up in July of 2018, but the service time issue was a bigger priority.

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2 hours ago, Timmy U said:

Okay, I’ll play:  if they are hell-bent on competing this year, how come Kopech, Robert, and Madrigal are all starting in the minors?  And we know that before Soxfest.  If they compete, it’s a bonus.  To them, it’s the final year of the rebuild.

 

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, but for that person's point - it was not in the least due to his performance, it was entirely due to manipulating his free agent calendar. Based on performance alone and doing the best thing possible for his development, he'd have been up in July of 2018, but the service time issue was a bigger priority.

No idea what you are arguing here.

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15 minutes ago, almagest said:

It’s a little strange that we still don’t have terms or a confirmation from the team.

The team won’t announce Officially until he takes the physical. But I do think it’s strange we haven’t heard anything from reporters on dollar amount.

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I am willing to accept the games they’re playing with Robert.  It’s only 15 games.  The Kopech plan is b.s.  He had surgery on September 19, 2018.  Rodon had surgery almost exactly 8 months later, yet Rodion is going to be ready by August 1 and Kopech has to stay down until June 1?  It does not compute.  He still is going to throw pitches in AAA.  Those still count.  They just value service time more than winning this season.  Maybe they’re right to do so, I just don’t like them lying about it.

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6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

$4.5M with $1M in incentives.

$7M option for 21 with $500k buyout. 

Home run terms. 

That is $6 mil exactly.  You nailed it!

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3 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I am willing to accept the games they’re playing with Robert.  It’s only 15 games.  The Kopech plan is b.s.  He had surgery on September 19, 2018.  Rodon had surgery almost exactly 8 months later, yet Rodion is going to be ready by August 1 and Kopech has to stay down until June 1?  It does not compute.  He still is going to throw pitches in AAA.  Those still count.  They just value service time more than winning this season.  Maybe they’re right to do so, I just don’t like them lying about it.

Rodon is going to have rehab starts. They aren’t just going to activate him off the DL and throw him in the fire.

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1 minute ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Rodon is going to have rehab starts. They aren’t just going to activate him off the DL and throw him in the fire.

I love how people think Kopech has this earned right to just be anointed a rotation spot. Make the dude earn it. He just had a serious arm operation and isn’t a veteran. Also if Kopech just was thrown into the fire without lower pitch counts counts right out of ST, that be idiotic of the organization from a health and development standpoint. Let the guy get into game shape in the minors. Get the year back. We’re talking about like 25 innings people. 

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17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

$4.5M with $1M in incentives.

$7M option for 21 with $500k buyout. 

Home run terms. 

Very fair for both sides.  I like this signing.

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1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I love how people think Kopech has this earned right to just be anointed a rotation spot. Make the dude earn it. He just had a serious arm operation and isn’t a veteran. Also if Kopech just was thrown into the fire without lower pitch counts counts right out of ST, that be idiotic of the organization from a health and development standpoint. Let the guy get into game shape in the minors. Get the year back. We’re talking about like 25 innings people. 

To get the year back, you’re talking a third of the season.  10 starts probably.  Now maybe he shows up in spring and has no command, fine, send him down.  But if he is one of your best 5 and you send him down over service time, then do what you need to do, but don’t tell me you are doing all you can to compete.

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8 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

To get the year back, you’re talking a third of the season.  10 starts probably.  Now maybe he shows up in spring and has no command, fine, send him down.  But if he is one of your best 5 and you send him down over service time, then do what you need to do, but don’t tell me you are doing all you can to compete.

I wouldn’t characterize the Sox as doing everything they can do to compete in 2020. Nor should they. I think the Sox would like to put themselves in a position that if a bunch of stuff went right they could win the ALC in 2020. But 2020 is still about the future, and many Sox fans just don’t have the patience for it. I get it, it’s tough. But I personally care just as much about 2025 and 2026 as I do about 2020. 

Kopech isn’t throwing a full season any way you slice it. I’d rather get 125 really solid rust-less innings from him from Memorial Day on than deal with short starts on pitch counts in shitty weather in April just to shut him down in August. To me, it’s not even remotely close to a decision point.

Edited by ChiSox59

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2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I wouldn’t characterize the Sox as doing everything they can do to compete in 2020. Nor should they. I think the Sox would like to put themselves in a position that if a bunch of stuff went right they could win the ALC in 2020. But 2020 is still about the future, and many Sox fans just don’t have the patience for it. I get it, it’s tough. But I personally care just as much about 2025 and 2026 as I do about 2020. 

Kopech isn’t throwing a full season any way you slice it. I’d rather get 125 really solid rust-less innings from him from Memorial Day on than deal with short starts on pitch counts in shitty weather in April just to shut him down in August. To me, it’s not even remotely close to a decision point.

I believe there is proof that nobody is really effective in there first year back..That year 2 is when they come back to form.  can somone back me up on that?

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21 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I am willing to accept the games they’re playing with Robert.  It’s only 15 games.  The Kopech plan is b.s.  He had surgery on September 19, 2018.  Rodon had surgery almost exactly 8 months later, yet Rodion is going to be ready by August 1 and Kopech has to stay down until June 1?  It does not compute.  He still is going to throw pitches in AAA.  Those still count.  They just value service time more than winning this season.  Maybe they’re right to do so, I just don’t like them lying about it.

First off, this isn’t entirely about service time.  If Kopech is indeed capped off at say at 140 innings, we’re better off letting him do shorter starts down in AAA while he’s still getting the rust off.  Him going three or four innings and then destroying our bullpen is not ideal, especially when he hasn’t pitched in like 18 months.  Getting the extra year of service is just the cherry on top.  

As for them “lying” about it, saying they’re purposely manipulating service time would result in a grievance they would certainly lose.  Is that what you really want?

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