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Bad Hombre

Castellanos to Reds , rumored 4/64M

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21 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

We shall see. A lot of people thought we had a legit shot at Machado . Granted the payroll was lower then but you still would've had to make some signings around him anyway. Just replace Machado with Betts only now we get a for year a lot of young guys to get better.

If Mazara sucks he's non-tendered ,if he hits 35 HR's trade him , Colome money gone, Encarnacion money gone. Herrera money gone. Gio Gonzales money gone. That's about $30M right there. Of course we'll need a few good bullpen pieces but again we can have a year to see if any of the ones in the system can become good

The problem is that more teams will be prepared to sign Betts next year, whereas Manny was a few team race. Add the 350m he will want and it is unlikely we sign him. 

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Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

OK thanks so I was right, around $100M post arb or around $90M pre arb. So as others have said besides me, it requires patience to see how 2020 plays out and Castellanos doesn't fit , As  @ptatc and I said . Let the young relievers develop and maybe the lost BP pieces can mosty be added internally and Kopech and the other young startes can keep advancing too and 2021-2023 is your window to win the World Series.

I can't really count 2020 in that window unless the young starters show a lot of improvement by the All Star break and then we can add to the team if necessary. Less likely to add having Castellanos salary in the mix.

Its like $70M prearb, not $90M.  

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18 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Just ran through it and it should be right around $100M including all arb plauyers with generous arb 1 raises for Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Bummer and Fry.  This also assumes EE, Herrera and Gio Gonzalez are gone, Mazara is non-tendered and Rodon tendered for $7.5M.  

 

16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Assuming they offer arbitration to Mazara, Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Moncada, Bummer, and Fry, they'll be right around $100m. $53 million currently guaranteed next year, that's a little over $40m in arbration assuming most guys are decent. Could save some of they lop off Rodon and Mazara, could be slightly higher if guys like Engel or Marshall are retained.

Do have an option on Encarnacion that they might consider.

OK thanks so I was right, around $100M post arb or around $90M pre arb. So as others have said besides me, it requires patience to see how 2020 plays out and Castellanos doesn't fit , As  @ptatc and I said , let the young relievers develop and maybe the lost BP pieces can mostly be added internally and Kopech and the other young starters can keep advancing too and 2021-2023 is your window to win the World Series.

I can't really count 2020 in that window unless the young starters show a lot of improvement by the All Star break and then we can add to the team if necessary. Less likely to add having Castellanos salary in the mix.

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6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Its like $70M prearb, not $90M.  

OK yeah I was just throwing out a number to say it's even lower to start then $100M but I didn't want to go too low without knowing for sure which is why I asked.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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8 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

The problem is that more teams will be prepared to sign Betts next year, whereas Manny was a few team race. Add the 350m he will want and it is unlikely we sign him. 

Not just talking about Betts here . Yes he is a long shot for not just us but if Springer or Pederson are still around those are less costly items too that are good hitters and upgrades fielding.

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26 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Not just talking about Betts here . Yes he is a long shot for not just us but if Springer or Pederson are still around those are less costly items too that are good hitters and upgrades fielding.

I think Joc is the guy we will pursue. We would just need someone on the bench who can hit lefties. 

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4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think Joc is the guy we will pursue. We would just need someone on the bench who can hit lefties. 

I agree.

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I reallllllly like the idea of Mazara in RF as our 8 hitter right now... HOWEVER, if Castellanos wanted to try a 1 year-15 million "prove it" deal, then I would be fine punting on the Mazara experiment.  

Edited by cjgalloway
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16 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think Joc is the guy we will pursue. We would just need someone on the bench who can hit lefties. 

Some of it will depend on the progress of the minor league OF as well.

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25 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

I reallllllly like the idea of Mazara in RF as our 8 hitter right now... HOWEVER, if Castellanos wanted to try a 1 year-15 million "prove it" deal, then I would be fine punting on the Mazara experiment.  

I think Sox feel good about rolling the dice on Mazara for 2020 in RF. A change of scenery might really benefit him, and he can bat in the 7/8/9 hole with less pressure. 

Castellanos just does not seem like a fit, especially after inking Encarnacion to DH. 

If the Sox add they should look to a guy like Gennett/Dozier/Iglesias. 

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6 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I think Sox feel good about rolling the dice on Mazara for 2020 in RF. A change of scenery might really benefit him, and he can bat in the 7/8/9 hole with less pressure. 

Castellanos just does not seem like a fit, especially after inking Encarnacion to DH. 

If the Sox add they should look to a guy like Gennett/Dozier/Iglesias. 

Iglesias is already signed. 

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1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Some of it will depend on the progress of the minor league OF as well.

I'd be very surprised if any minor league outfielder is worthy of starting in RF at the ML next season. A few have a shot, but injuries and poor play makes RF a hole for us. 

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1 hour ago, cjgalloway said:

I reallllllly like the idea of Mazara in RF as our 8 hitter right now... HOWEVER, if Castellanos wanted to try a 1 year-15 million "prove it" deal, then I would be fine punting on the Mazara experiment.  

For what purpose ? What is the end game ? Is Castellanos so much of an upgrade over Mazara for 2020 that it would make any difference ? Is Castellanos the key to winning or being a playoff team ? A World Series team ?

No, that is still mostly dependent on the pitching and adding $15M now is $15M you can add at the trade deadline if by some miracle you get some outstanding starting pitching in which case Mazara's normal production would be fine.

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4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

For what purpose ? What is the end game ? Is Castellanos so much of an upgrade over Mazara for 2020 that it would make any difference ? Is Castellanos the key to winning or being a playoff team ? A World Series team ?

No, that is still mostly dependent on the pitching and adding $15M now is $15M you can add at the trade deadline if by some miracle you get some outstanding starting pitching in which case Mazara's normal production would be fine.

Dude if Nick wants to come here on 1/15, and I've sorta come around on the Mazara move -- YOU WELCOME IT WITH OPEN ARMS.

Anybody good at the deadline will cost a king's ransom in prospects, not just cash.  Signing Nick gives the Sox about 2 more wins over Mazara on paper.  Probably would improve playoff odds from about 40% to 50% preseason.  It's a no brainer, a one year deal?  Come on.  As noted yesterday even 2/42 makes a lot of sense.  Anything longer does not.

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2 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think Joc is the guy we will pursue. We would just need someone on the bench who can hit lefties. 

 

2 hours ago, cjgalloway said:

I agree.

That's a bit premature. Only by knowing what happens in 2020 do we know how the Sox approach 2021. If Mazara does break out we can keep him for another year or trade him , minor league players or a pitcher or all of them to fill needs along with FA possibilities.

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35 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I'd be very surprised if any minor league outfielder is worthy of starting in RF at the ML next season. A few have a shot, but injuries and poor play makes RF a hole for us. 

we'll see. a couple should be moving to AAA at some point this year. If not then they need to look elsewhere.

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29 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Dude if Nick wants to come here on 1/15, and I've sorta come around on the Mazara move -- YOU WELCOME IT WITH OPEN ARMS.

Anybody good at the deadline will cost a king's ransom in prospects, not just cash.  Signing Nick gives the Sox about 2 more wins over Mazara on paper.  Probably would improve playoff odds from about 40% to 50% preseason.  It's a no brainer, a one year deal?  Come on.  As noted yesterday even 2/42 makes a lot of sense.  Anything longer does not.

Makes sense for what ? Bad defense? Stifling how much can be added to next years payroll ? Ending the chance for a Mazara breakout ? Are the playoffs in 2020 such a priority that you hurt the year or 2 beyond that by having less payroll flexibility ?

If by some weird chance Castellanos signs with the Sox and he won't because the Sox also know it makes no sense for this year even if you think it does. The Sox have plenty of hitting if everyone does what we hope they do and even more if Mazara breaks out.

They got Mazara for a reason and we know what that reason is, the possibility he hit's over 30 HR's and he's still inexpensive. There's no room for the both of them unless EE suddenly starts showing his age. You can't sit both Castellanos and Mazara . Do you think it's possible to trade EE now ? Can you sit EE on the bench to play Castellanos  and Mazara at the same time ?  Someone is going to be riding the pine a lot and DH or bad defensive players are not ideal bench pieces.

You have no idea what will be available at the deadline or what it will cost. Relief pitchers won't cost much. Pitching will decide the Sox fate in 2020 not Castellanos, nor Mazara but having both of them will surely hurt monetarily either at the deadline or next year if you give him a 2 year contract.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Makes sense for what ? Bad defense? Stifling how much can be added to next years payroll ? Ending the chance for a Mazara breakout ? Are the playoffs in 2020 such a priority that you hurt the year or 2 beyond that by having less payroll flexibility ?

If by some weird chance Castellanos signs with the Sox and he won't because the Sox also know it makes no sense for this year even if you think it does. The Sox have plenty of hitting if everyone does what we hope they do and even more if Mazara breaks out.

They got Mazara for a reason and we know what that reason is, the possibility he hit's over 30 HR's and he's still inexpensive. There's no room for the both of them unless EE suddenly starts showing his age. You can't sit both Castellanos and Mazara . Do you think it's possible to trade EE now ? Can you sit EE on the bench to play Castellanos  and Mazara at the same time ?  Someone is going to be riding the pine a lot and DH or bad defensive players are not ideal bench pieces.

You have no idea what will be available at the deadline or what it will cost. Relief pitchers won't cost much. Pitching will decide the Sox fate in 2020 not Castellanos, nor Mazara but having both of them will surely hurt monetarily either at the deadline or next year if you give him a 2 year contract.

Castellanos on a one year deal does not hurt flexibility for multiple years.. lol 

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If Castellanos wants to come here on a one year deal, I do not know how anyone can think that is a bad thing. The White Sox are marginal contenders, you upgrade in any way possible to bridge the gap. Castellonos' bat is an upgrade over Mazara and Mazara isn't a wizard in RF either.

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7 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

Castellanos on a one year deal does not hurt flexibility for multiple years.. lol 

 I was responding to @chitownsportsfan who  said either a one or 2 year deal both make sense and I addressed both issues. Try reading both posts again before you make a comment  that doesn't make sense .

It's in my last sentence..... "having both of them will surely hurt monetarily either at the deadline or next year if you give him a 2 year contract."

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16 minutes ago, Orlando said:

If Castellanos wants to come here on a one year deal, I do not know how anyone can think that is a bad thing. The White Sox are marginal contenders, you upgrade in any way possible to bridge the gap. Castellonos' bat is an upgrade over Mazara and Mazara isn't a wizard in RF either.

How do you know it'll bridge the gap ? Do you sacrifice a potential Mazara break out and the potential to be a valuable trade chip ? Do you sacrifice production from EE ? Someone will be sitting a lot. There's no way to know what their production would be if they are on the bench. Do you sacrifice payroll at the deadline ? Do you sacrifice a versatile bench player for the guy now sitting on the bench who can only either DH or play a bad corner OF ? Do you sacrifice pitcher's ERA , WHIP's. effectiveness and confidence ?

If you want to continue to look at it in a vacuum go right ahead but there are logistics to every move you make that a simple "the dude can rake add him it's a no brainer" entails. So yea you do have to use your brain.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

How do you know it'll bridge the gap ? Do you sacrifice a potential Mazara break out and the potential to be a valuable trade chip ? Do you sacrifice production from EE ? Someone will be sitting a lot. There's no way to know what their production would be if they are on the bench. Do you sacrifice payroll at the deadline ? Do you sacrifice a versatile bench player for the guy now sitting on the bench who can only either DH or play a bad corner OF ?

If you want to continue to look at it in a vacuum go right ahead but there are logistics to every move you make that a simple "the dude can rake add him it's a no brainer" entails. So yea you do have to use your brain.

Years of rebuilding has a lot of us in this mindset. Contending teams don't bank on potential. Castellanos > Mazara right now. I have never been against Mazara but given the choice, I choose Castellanos.

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Except the odds that would be willing to sign for one year at $15 million and platoon (lowering his 2021 value) are what?

3-5%?

If they really wanted him, they shouldn’t have signed EE.

OR the asking price at that time was a heckuva lot more than they were willing to pay...especially waiting again until the last days of February and missing out on both targets. 

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7 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Years of rebuilding has a lot of us in this mindset. Contending teams don't bank on potential. Castellanos > Mazara right now. I have never been against Mazara but given the choice, I choose Castellanos.

Yes they do. Teams do not have accomplished veterans at every position. They work in young cost controlled players into the lineup and staff. The issue is you can't do it too many positions at once. That is a rebuild. They currently have established players at C, 1B, SS, 3B, LF and DH. This leaves CF, RF, 2B  for the  "banking on potential" players. This is how a team like the White Sox who will have a midrange budget needs to operate.

 

That's pretty good for a team coming out of a rebuild. 

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15 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Years of rebuilding has a lot of us in this mindset. Contending teams don't bank on potential. Castellanos > Mazara right now. I have never been against Mazara but given the choice, I choose Castellanos.

No, roster construction, payroll  and what the Sox have already done has me in this mindset  The Sox will not be getting Castellanos. That is apparent . The Sox would have to  punt either EE  or Mazara. They are going to roll with those guys for the reasons I stated multiple times already. They made those moves because they could not wait to fill holes. They couldn't afford to wait to see if Castellanos market took a dump and if it did they couldn't know for sure they would sign him. Boras is his agent and it's pretty obvious because he hasn't signed that his defense and what Boras is asking for is a huge concern.

The only concern with rebuilding is making sure we have enough pitching. We have enough bats, DH's,and bad defensive corner OF's. There's no room for another one. It's too late in the game to find a taker for EE or Mazara.

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