So What Happens to Zack Collins?

[michelangelosmonkey]

11 hours ago, fathom said:

It’s not just KLaw, find me one non-Sox related scout that thinks he can still be a catcher and get back to me.

Sorry if I don't have the same slavish belief in the infallibility of scouts as you do.  How many top 100 prospects lists did Marcus Semien make?    A better argument against Collins the catcher is...why did he catch 85 games two years ago, 70 games in 2018 and then 60 games this year?  If the White Sox see potential...why isn't he catching all the damn time.  Which I think is a pretty convincing argument.  But I've also watched the WS handle him in curious ways.  Why did they bring him up for a month in June-july...in a season the Sox were going nowhere and only start him in seven out of thirty games?  If they don't see him as a C...why not just announce that and let him hit ?  Why did they sign EE?  Seems like two possibilities...one, as you and most on here thing...they recognize he's garbage and hope he can be useful as a Josh Phegly sort or two...they are grooming him for something bigger.  This year will tell.     

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I bow to your obvious wisdom of Collins and knowledge of the future.  I presented a case study...Ted Simmons, who I think is similar to Collins.  TS put up 45 WAR in a 9 season stretch almost all of it with offense...his average DWAR over 21 seasons was basically 0.  You countered with...what...his 30 bad at bats in June?    To state categorically that Collins will not be a future hitting star because of his swing and miss issues (He hit .280 in AAA which is not helped by juiced ball or BB&T) echoes what others here said about Moncada last year at this time.  Seems someone said half way through the season that he would NEVER hit above .280 in a season...except, your know, last year.   What is one of Moncada's best skills...his elite batters eye, which allowed him to learn to wait for pitches he could hit.  If Collins, as a lefty, can hit .275 in the majors and walk 100 times...and hit 30 homers...and be a slightly below average defensive catcher...he will be a 10 time all star.  Obviously that is his ceiling. I am just bothered by the suggestion his ceiling is back up catcher and pinch hitter.  

No offense, but citing WAR numbers from a catcher in the 1970’s means absolutely nothing to me.  It’s hard enough to value catcher defense in this day & age even with all the technology & data currently available.  Compare him to Grandal or Realmuto and tell me you think he has the same ceiling, because those two are the only two five win catchers right now and Zack will never be on their level behind the plate.

Either way, I simply don’t agree with your assessment of his offensive ceiling.  Saying that the juiced ball and BB&T ballpark didn’t affect his BA (or numbers in general) is flat out wrong.  A HR that would have otherwise been a routine fly ball is going to help his batting average.  He hit 14 HRs at home vs 5 on the road (in more PA’s no less), while his BA was .378 at home and .185 on the road.  I wonder if the ballpark had something to do with that 🤔.  Also, go check the stats of the other Charlotte regulars.  Ryan Goins had a .937 OPS!?!  Palka at .900!!  Matt Skole at .880!?  Danny Mendick .812!!  Adam fucking Engel .820!?!?!!?!

I will keep repeating this because it doesn’t seem to be resonating with you. I like Zack Collins as a prospect.  I just don’t think he has a star ceiling given his defense deficiencies, inability to hit LHP, and general swing & miss issues.  I think his ceiling is a good not great primary catcher or a fairly good platoon 1B / DH type, neither of which is a star level outcome.  And candidly speaking, he’d have to improve his receiving and/or his bat to ball skills significantly to reach those ceilings, which is going to be an uphill battle for him.