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Steve Stone Hinting At Another Move: Not Puig / Castellanos

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11 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

No shot. They will wait 4 weeks and get his year of control back. 

100% the Sox will get Kopech's lost season of control back and keep him down in the minors. He needs a month or two in AAA to get used to facing hitters again after such a long time off. 

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26 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

No shot. They will wait 4 weeks and get his year of control back. 

This is what's going to lead to a strike. Teams don't even hide it anymore. I hope Kris Bryant wins his case against the Cubs. 

I remember that game Kopech was brought up for a few years ago. That was teh most excited a fan base had been in a LONG time. And then we dick around trying to control him & i completely understand the business aspect, but that's sad because we all know without that you'd have Kopech up for Opening Day ... along with Madrigal and Robert. Frustrating as a fan of baseball because all teams should be incentivized to put the best product on the field at all times. Detroit should have Matt Manning up. All these prospects should be up and competing and MLB teams shouldn't be penalized for it, nor the players. They need to fix that issue badly. 

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18 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

100% the Sox will get Kopech's lost season of control back and keep him down in the minors. He needs a month or two in AAA to get used to facing hitters again after such a long time off. 

I don't believe he actually NEEDS it. Beacuse take away the year control issue and we all know he deserves to be up in the MLB. 

NOW, what I would say though is that if I were the Sox and the control issue aside? I'd have Kopech start the year as a multi-inning high leverage reliever ala Chris Devenski for the first 3-6 weeks to help limit his innings a bit. Then I would slide him in the rotation. Or maybe use a reliever/starter approach ala the Rays with some of our guys. Have Cease and Kopech go on the same day and give them each 2-4 innings. Same with Rodon when he gets back. I think it could be an interesting approach to limiting innings while utilizing their talents. Have Giolito/Keuchel/Gio be your full time guys. Have the rest rotate as Rays type plan working them in effectively. Made that up on the fly -- so not sure if i even like my own idea yet haha

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3 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

This is what's going to lead to a strike. Teams don't even hide it anymore. I hope Kris Bryant wins his case against the Cubs. 

I remember that game Kopech was brought up for a few years ago. That was teh most excited a fan base had been in a LONG time. And then we dick around trying to control him & i completely understand the business aspect, but that's sad because we all know without that you'd have Kopech up for Opening Day ... along with Madrigal and Robert. Frustrating as a fan of baseball because all teams should be incentivized to put the best product on the field at all times. Detroit should have Matt Manning up. All these prospects should be up and competing and MLB teams shouldn't be penalized for it, nor the players. They need to fix that issue badly. 

I think he means physical control, not contract control. I misread that too. He’s been throwing without restriction and he’s just going to be one of the guys coming into spring training so this is probably not going to be an issue. I’m more worried about Cease’s fastball control than anything that Kopech is doing at this point.

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6 minutes ago, flavum said:

I think he means physical control, not contract control. I misread that too. He’s been throwing without restriction and he’s just going to be one of the guys coming into spring training so this is probably not going to be an issue. I’m more worried about Cease’s fastball control than anything that Kopech is doing at this point.

ahhhh.. i was going to say didn't that ship sail when we brought him up two years ago? But then i dont know enough about those rules and how injuries may affect his arbitration process... 

 

if it's just about his actual PITCHING control I'd put him as a bullpen "starter". Let him figure it out there. He's got good enough stuff to work around his control in most situations i'd think. 

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1 hour ago, tray said:

they're committed to Nomar Mazara - Nightengale

Texas gave this guy away for a reason or reasons that we may become more familiar with a few months into the season.  Maybe the Rangers gave up on him too soon (after 4 years) , at least that is the hope, but committing to him ?   OK, hope springs eternal for 2020.

He will likely be the 8th hitter.  He doesn't need to be a superstar, though he still may have some potential to be more than he has been.  If he puts up a .268/.318/.469 (.786 OPS) slash line out of the 8 hole, that is pretty decent (exactly the line he put up last year, by the way).  

For reference, out of the 8 hole last year, the Sox slashed .239/.305/.324 (.630 OPS).  Out of 7th spot they slashed .248/.303/.398 (.700 OPS).  From the 6th spot they produced .253/.316/.407 (.723).  From the 5 spot they slashed .264/.304/.433 (.737 OPS).  From the 4 spot they slashed .232/..299/.413 (.712 OPS). 

The doom and gloom worrying about a 8th hitter that will likely hit 20 HRs and 25 2B seems like you're missing the big picture.  

Though he moved around a lot, he mostly hit 4th for the Rangers last year.  There is no way he is that much of a pressure position for the Sox next season.  I would guess he hits 8th.  Maybe 7th.  But he shouldn't be hitting in the middle of the lineup which will likely be in some order Moncada-Abreu-Eloy- Grandal- EE-at 2-3-4-5-6 on most nights.  You still have to account for Tim, who could hit 1st or 7th, then you have Robert and Madrigal to fill out the other spots. 

There is no reason to freak out about having a guy that is basically league average as what could very well be your worst hitter.  He is far from the complete black hole the Sox have been trotting out at several positions the last couple of years.  Oh yeah, and he is still just 24 years old and had a much better 2nd half than first last season.  

Edited by turnin' two
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40 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

This is what's going to lead to a strike. Teams don't even hide it anymore. I hope Kris Bryant wins his case against the Cubs. 

I remember that game Kopech was brought up for a few years ago. That was teh most excited a fan base had been in a LONG time. And then we dick around trying to control him & i completely understand the business aspect, but that's sad because we all know without that you'd have Kopech up for Opening Day ... along with Madrigal and Robert. Frustrating as a fan of baseball because all teams should be incentivized to put the best product on the field at all times. Detroit should have Matt Manning up. All these prospects should be up and competing and MLB teams shouldn't be penalized for it, nor the players. They need to fix that issue badly. 

Kopech has thrown 14.1 innings in the bigs to a tune of a 5.02 ERA before going on the DL.  His camp really has no claim to a big league roster spot after a year+ injury rehab.  He would have a real case had he been up for a whole season but thats just not the case.

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23 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

He will likely be the 8th hitter.  He doesn't need to be a superstar, though he still may have some potential to be more than he has been.  If he puts up a .268/.318/.469 (.786 OPS) slash line out of the 8 hole, that is pretty decent (exactly the line he put up last year, by the way).  

For reference, out of the 8 hole last year, the Sox slashed .239/.305/.324 (.630 OPS).  Out of 7th spot they slashed .248/.303/.398 (.700 OPS).  From the 6th spot they produced .253/.316/.407 (.723).  From the 5 spot they slashed .264/.304/.433 (.737 OPS).  From the 4 spot they slashed .232/..299/.413 (.712 OPS). 

The doom and gloom worrying about a 8th hitter that will likely hit 20 HRs and 25 2B seems like you're missing the big picture.  

Though he moved around a lot, he mostly hit 4th for the Rangers last year.  There is no way he is that much of a pressure position for the Sox next season.  I would guess he hits 8th.  Maybe 7th.  But he shouldn't be hitting in the middle of the lineup which will likely be in some order Moncada-Abreu-Eloy- Grandal- EE-at 2-3-4-5-6 on most nights.  You still have to account for Tim, who could hit 1st or 7th, then you have Robert and Madrigal to fill out the other spots. 

There is no reason to freak out about having a guy that is basically league average as what could very well be your worst hitter.  He is far from the complete black hole the Sox have been trotting out at several positions the last couple of years.  Oh yeah, and he is still just 24 years old and had a much better 2nd half than first last season.  

We see in Tampa Bay, that having Avi Garcia in the bottom of you're lineup is not a bad thing. Problem is, we counted on him to be much more than that. Now we have Avi expected to be the worst, or second worst bat in the lineup.

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9 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

Kopech has thrown 14.1 innings in the bigs to a tune of a 5.02 ERA before going on the DL.  His camp really has no claim to a big league roster spot after a year+ injury rehab.  He would have a real case had he been up for a whole season but thats just not the case.

It's not clearly obvious that Kopech is one of the 5 best starters in the org at least. 

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1 hour ago, steveno89 said:

100% the Sox will get Kopech's lost season of control back and keep him down in the minors. He needs a month or two in AAA to get used to facing hitters again after such a long time off. 

He doesnt NEED it. He pitched in the Fall instructional league and he wont learn anything from pitching to minor leagues to start the year. However, the Sox NEED to get the year of control since he missed the year. 

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2 hours ago, bmags said:

Glad that oddity was cleared up.

Fav bullpen milb candidates:

Salazar and Cingrani

I played in College with Cingrani.  He was always high.  He also hasn't been that good for awhile.

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6 minutes ago, mqr said:

It's not clearly obvious that Kopech is one of the 5 best starters in the org at least. 

Its is clearly obvious he is one of the 5 most talented pitchers in the organization. The Sox wont know if he is one of the best until he is in the MLB for a while.

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1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Its is clearly obvious he is one of the 5 most talented pitchers in the organization. The Sox wont know if he is one of the best until he is in the MLB for a while.

While that's true, that doesn't necessarily mean he should be entitled a spot. As far as a grievance goes, he has nothing to stand on until he's shredding AAA and Gonzalez is awful or something. 

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18 minutes ago, mqr said:

While that's true, that doesn't necessarily mean he should be entitled a spot. As far as a grievance goes, he has nothing to stand on until he's shredding AAA and Gonzalez is awful or something. 

No one is entitled to anything. The only reason he is going to the minors is service time. I'm not sure where the grievance issue came from but it's the same as madrigal and Robert. They all should be in the MLB. The only reason they aren't is service time manip6which may not be in the spirit if the CBA but it is definitely legal.

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49 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The only reason he is going to the minors is service time.

At present that is not true. Maybe a couple weeks into the season it'll be true that he's only still there for service time. But right now there are actually 5 more arms I trust more than him. 

If they were throwing Ross Detwiler I would agree. 

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1 hour ago, SouthWallace said:

Kopech has thrown 14.1 innings in the bigs to a tune of a 5.02 ERA before going on the DL.  His camp really has no claim to a big league roster spot after a year+ injury rehab.  He would have a real case had he been up for a whole season but thats just not the case.

While I agree that he doesn't have enough history to have an automatic claim to a roster spot, don't use the ERA as the reason.  He was absolutely dominating his first three starts with an ERA below 1.  His ERA only went up to 5.02 because he attempted to pitch a game with a torn UCL in his fourth start, and obviously got shelled as a result.

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42 minutes ago, mqr said:

At present that is not true. Maybe a couple weeks into the season it'll be true that he's only still there for service time. But right now there are actually 5 more arms I trust more than him. 

If they were throwing Ross Detwiler I would agree. 

There's absolutely no reason not to trust his arm. He had twice as long as most pitchers for rehab and he has already pitched in games since last season. 

Edited by ptatc

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3 hours ago, pcq said:

Mandick could be our Benzo. I hope. 

I know your thing is your own funky nicknames for players  but sometimes the thought might not come through to the reader. As in this case I am left wondering if Benzo is Benintendi ? or some super utility guy i can't remember . Oh wait it took me a while Ben Zobrist. BenZo.

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2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I know your thing is your own funky nicknames for players  but sometimes the thought might not come through to the reader. As in this case I am left wondering if Benzo is Benintendi ? or some super utility guy i can't remember . Oh wait it took me a while Ben Zobrist. BenZo.

I think Mandick is worse than BenZo.  😂

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2 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I played in College with Cingrani.  He was always high.  He also hasn't been that good for awhile.

Sorry my milb contract candidate wasn’t good enough

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38 minutes ago, ptatc said:

There's absolutely no reason not to trust his arm. He had twice as long as most pitchers for rehab and he has already pitched in games since last season. 

They want to limit his innings as well. It serves two masters. Service time and inning manipulation is easier to do in AAA

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1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They want to limit his innings as well. It serves two masters. Service time and inning manipulation is easier to do in AAA

Jim Dandy to the rescue. ( Black Oak Arkansas )

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I think it's plausible that Kopech will need/do best with some minor league innings before coming up, but it's hard to trust that the Sox would be acting in good faith.

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