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Steve Stone: more bullpen help is coming

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7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If you’re gonna add an OF, it makes sense to add on that can actually platoon with Mazara. 

I don’t think JBJ would preclude you from that. He would simply replace Engel so you could still pursue a Hunter Pence type

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10 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I don’t think JBJ would preclude you from that. He would simply replace Engel so you could still pursue a Hunter Pence type

Don’t see the fit personally. 

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21 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If you’re gonna add an OF, it makes sense to add on that can actually platoon with Mazara. 

Already have one in Leury. And Bradley jr. would be  more valuable  , more powerful bat off the bench than Engel and also a late inning defensive replacement for Eloy . Also more valuable than Engel to replace an injured Mazara or Jimenez since he bats lefty and most pitchers are righty while also keeping in mind that you only take JBJ if you can get Workman which would be a big upgrade for the BP at a combined cost of $14.5M for 1 year of each. Not likely given BoSox BP woes but not a terrible fit for a year depending on who you give up. Engei and a relieve pitching prospect ? Boston gets a little salary relief not much but maybe enough to get them back under the luxury tax ? I have no idea. So not only saves them $14.5 salary but also saves them over $10M in luxury tax penalties.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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19 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if you see Collins and a couple mid to low level prospects being shipped off for relief pitching. Since we signed Grandal, Abreu, Encarnacion and McCann there is really no spot to put him or give him enough AB’s. We also have Vaughn coming up sometime in the near future so we really don’t want to block him.

Edited by maloney.adam
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Trading 6 years of collins when mccann is a FA next year is a tatis tier move. a 2 fWAR starting catcher should yield a RP better than the scraps that were available this offseason. (see Tampa)

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23 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if you see Collins and a couple mid to low level prospects being shipped off for relief pitching. Since we signed Grandal, Abreu, Encarnacion and McCann there is really no spot to put him or give him enough AB’s. We also have Vaughn coming up sometime in the near future so we really don’t want to block him.

I’d rather trade McCann than Collins to be honest.

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2 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Gotta give this guy credit. I don't know how anyone can pretend for so long. 

Especially consider he got thrown off of twitter and went through the hassle of making another

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21 minutes ago, scotty22hotty said:

Trading 6 years of collins when mccann is a FA next year is a tatis tier move. a 2 fWAR starting catcher should yield a RP better than the scraps that were available this offseason. (see Tampa)

Well I guess dangling an Allstar catcher in a trade package may generate interest from some teams. Collins is unproven but has more years of control. Either way I think one of them will be traded this offseason or before the trade deadline.  

Edited by maloney.adam

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I wonder if the Dodgers are quietly shopping Kenley Jensen.  I know he fell out of favor in LA and hasn't been the same elite closer he was.  Any other relievers in that camp, still quality/above average relievers, but with price tags in excess of their current protection (i.e., minimal to negative surplus but still positive baseball value)? I would think of those as good potential fits.  

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Sure, Edwin Diaz and Kimbrel. But all three guys would amount to substantial risks in different ways. Probably not much worse than giving Hudson $10~12 million, depending on what else we get back. 

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12 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I wonder if the Dodgers are quietly shopping Kenley Jensen.  I know he fell out of favor in LA and hasn't been the same elite closer he was.  Any other relievers in that camp, still quality/above average relievers, but with price tags in excess of their current protection (i.e., minimal to negative surplus but still positive baseball value)? I would think of those as good potential fits.  

Givens. Not sure what the ask would be, but it is Baltimore.

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4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure, Edwin Diaz and Kimbrel. But all three guys would amount to substantial risks in different ways. Probably not much worse than giving Hudson $10~12 million, depending on what else we get back. 

I’m really in no hurry to bail the Cubs out of financial hell, but the Sox trading for Kimbrel would be interesting if they could get him for pretty much nothing. 

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15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure, Edwin Diaz and Kimbrel. But all three guys would amount to substantial risks in different ways. Probably not much worse than giving Hudson $10~12 million, depending on what else we get back. 

Kimbrel is owed $33 million over the next two years.  I’ll pass, even if the Cubs threw in cash.

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11 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I’m really in no hurry to bail the Cubs out of financial hell, but the Sox trading for Kimbrel would be interesting if they could get him for pretty much nothing. 

Right, conversely, things went so poorly for the Cubs with that deal last year...they almost have to go all-in on keeping him, simply because there aren't many other options on the market and they've already jettisoned so much of their previous two bullpens that depth is lacking.

They have to hope for the second year rebound, since it seems nearly every pitcher waiting until mid-season to start has been victimized by that decision.

I guess I could see trading Colome and/or Herrera for Kimbrel...with money coming back to the White Sox, the good 'ol change of scenery trade.   But that's highly unlikely.

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10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Right, conversely, things went so poorly for the Cubs with that deal last year...they almost have to go all-in on keeping him, simply because there aren't many other options on the market and they've already jettisoned so much of their previous two bullpens that depth is lacking.

They have to hope for the second year rebound, since it seems nearly every pitcher waiting until mid-season to start has been victimized by that decision.

I guess I could see trading Colome and/or Herrera for Kimbrel...with money coming back to the White Sox, the good 'ol change of scenery trade.   But that's highly unlikely.

This trade would make zero sense for either team.  We trade a good closer and a reliever coming off a bad year for a closer coming off a bad year?  And the Cubs send money?  How does this proposed trade improve the Sox or free up any money for the Cubs this year?  😐 

Edited by Moan4Yoan
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40 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

This trade would make zero sense for either team.  We trade a good closer and a reliever coming off a bad year for a closer coming off a bad year?  And the Cubs send money?  How does this proposed trade improve the Sox or free up any money for the Cubs this year?  😐 

In the same way trading Borchard for Thornton worked out.   Kimbrel and Herrera get fresh starts with new teams, Cubs get rid of some of their payroll problem.   It doesn't matter, Hahn is not going to be perceived as helping the Cubs, and Epstein would look like he got snookered if Kimbrel rebounded, especially with money going to the Sox as well.  

In general, we should sell high on Colome and Kimbrel's the perfect buy low candidate depending on how much the Cubs will send along with him.   Sure, there's risk, just like iit's possible or even likely Colome and Bummer regress and Herrera never returns to form.   That's undoubtedly one of the most volatile parts of this team and their intentions to contend this season. 

Does anyone believe in Herrera getting key 7th and 8th inning outs in the heart of a real pennant race? He couldn't even execute when there wasn't any legitimate pressure, other than pride. 

Edited by caulfield12

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21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

In the same way trading Borchard for Thornton worked out.   Kimbrel and Herrera get fresh starts with new teams, Cubs get rid of some of their payroll problem.   It doesn't matter, Hahn is not going to be perceived as helping the Cubs, and Epstein would look like he got snookered if Kimbrel rebounded, especiall with money going to the Sox as well.  

No, it wouldn’t be similar to the Borchard for Thornton trade.  There is a lot more money at play here.  The Sox are giving up two relievers, including a good closer, for one closer who had a bad year.  The Sox need more relievers, not less.

Colome = $10.3 million arbitration estimate in 2020
Herrera = $8.5 million in 2020, plus $1 million buyout

Kimbrel = $16 million in 2020, $16 million in 2021, plus $1 million buyout

So Colome and Herrera are still owed almost $19 million in 2020 while Kimbrel is owed $16 million.  So while the Cubs may be freeing up money for 2021, this does nothing for them this season.  And you also said the Cubs would be sending money to the Sox in the deal.

How does this trade improve the Sox bullpen or reduce the Cubs payroll for 2020?

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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Keone Kela 

Scott Oberg 

Edwin Diaz

Ken Giles

Mychal Givens

Craig Kimbrel

————-

Kela would be the most ideal of the above, only 26, but a free agent after this year... Pirates need a Catcher... Heyman has been putting out some weirdly timed McCann tweets over the past 2 weeks... 

Rockies (Oberg) want a catcher or OF..

 

 

Edited by teorey23

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Statistically, the only difference between last year and a normal Kimbrel year was a comically high HR rate. Still striking a ton of dudes out, and his walk rate has been that high in years where he finished with ERAs in the 2's.

Cubs might give him up to get out of his salary, but they aren't trading him for worse pitchers just as a change of scenery.

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8 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

No, it wouldn’t be the same.  The Sox are giving up two relievers, including a good closer, for one closer who had a bad year.  The Sox need more relievers, not less.

Colome = $10.3 million arbitration estimate in 2020
Herrera = $8.5 million in 2020, plus $1 million buyout

Kimbrel = $16 million in 2020, $16 million in 2021, plus $1 million buyout

So Colome and Herrera are still owed almost $19 million in 2020 whole Kimbrel is owed $16 million.  You also said the Cubs would be sending the Sox money.

How does this trade improve the Sox bullpen or reduce the Cubs payroll for 2020?

I didn't say the Cubs would take both.  "and/or" depending on Cubs' interest.   Nobody actually WANTS Herrera.  So simply sell higher on Colome and get more money back... sell lower on Herrera.   Not even sure the Cubs would buy into Colome as their closer to replace Kimbrel.   In the end, the Cubs would still have to send a ton of money to the Sox to make it interesting enough. They're better off hoping for a rebound, just like they should hold onto Bryant at least until the ASB. 

Colome for Kimbrel plus X amount of money would be or could be interesting for both teams.   But not without risk. 

Edited by caulfield12

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1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Kimbrel is owed $33 million over the next two years.  I’ll pass, even if the Cubs threw in cash.

LOL you are delusional. Dude is still damn good. Last year was an outlier for him. 

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47 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

LOL you are delusional. Dude is still damn good. Last year was an outlier for him. 

Yeah. I would be in on Kimberly if it didn’t take much prospect wise. 

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1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

LOL you are delusional. Dude is still damn good. Last year was an outlier for him. 

Last year wasnt an outlier, it was the beginning of the downward slide. It started at the end of the previous year.

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