SoxAce Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, ptatc said: Last year wasnt an outlier, it was the beginning of the downward slide. It started at the end of the previous year. Unless his elbow is truly fucked (which is certainly possible) then I highly doubt it. And the previous year he was pitching with a heavy heart off the field (his daughter was born with a heart defect and required numerous surgeries) not to mention only pitched in 21.2 innings in the second half compared to the 40.2 the first half. Edited January 7, 2020 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 34 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Unless his elbow is truly fucked (which is certainly possible) then I highly doubt it. And the previous year he was pitching with a heavy heart off the field (his daughter was born with a heart defect and required numerous surgeries) not to mention only pitched in 21.2 innings in the second half compared to the 40.2 the first half. It's possible. But with the way Boston refused to go to him in pressure situations in the playoffs, no one signing him last off season and his performance last year I think he is on the downslide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFinn Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 What would it take to acquire Josh Hader? I know the Yankees picked up 4 lottery tickets from Cleveland for Andrew Miller and 3 lottery tickets and Gleyber Torres from the Cub in 2016. Would Hader make the bullpen too LH? ps: can I fix spell correct so Hader doesn't automatically switch over to Vader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, SoxAce said: LOL you are delusional. Dude is still damn good. Last year was an outlier for him. $33 million and the guy is turning 32. That’s a little pricey to find out if he still has it or not. I’m not sure what the Cubs would expect in return or how much cash they would be willing to throw in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Kimbrel is going to continue declining. He's a 2 pitch pitcher whose fastball got absolutely clobbered last year despite only losing 1 MPH on it. It could be that last year was an anamoly and that he can bounce back. But he got barreled up 20% of the time and gave up 92 MPH EV. He deserved to get crushed last year, it wasn't bad luck. Most of the damage came on fastballs, which is even more concerning. If he continues to lose more velocity it'll be hard for him to live up to that contract of his. Even if he corrects whatever he was doing wrong last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Eminor3rd said: Statistically, the only difference between last year and a normal Kimbrel year was a comically high HR rate. Still striking a ton of dudes out, and his walk rate has been that high in years where he finished with ERAs in the 2's. Cubs might give him up to get out of his salary, but they aren't trading him for worse pitchers just as a change of scenery. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Here's the obvious problem with looking down on the likes of Kimbrel, Diaz and Jansen. Not much to choose from until after 2021, and there's many red flags already with that group, for a variety of reasons. Seems that between Rodon, Dunning, Stiever, Hamilton, Burdi and perhaps Lopez, the options are more likely to come internally rather than buying at top of the free agency class prices. Kimbrel's the obvious poster child for that, especially not getting him during spring training...coming off some anxious moments in the 2018 post-season, it would have been much better to get him back out there in February of 2020 instead of giving him months and months to dwell on it. Free Agents 2020-21 Relievers: Blake Treinen, Alex Colome, Andrew Miller (vesting option) 2021-22 Relievers: Kenley Jansen, Brad Hand, Jeurys Familia, Corey Knebel, Archie Bradley, Raisel Iglesias, Roberto Osuna, Zack Britton (club option) 2022-23: Aaron Judge, Trea Turner, Gary Sanchez, Aaron Nola (club option), Luis Severino (club option), Aroldis Chapman, Edwin Diaz, Sale (opt-out), deGrom (opt-out) 2023-24: Machado (opt-out), José Ramírez, Matt Chapman, Cody Bellinger, Rhys Hoskins, Blake Snell, Josh Hader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, BigFinn said: What would it take to acquire Josh Hader? I know the Yankees picked up 4 lottery tickets from Cleveland for Andrew Miller and 3 lottery tickets and Gleyber Torres from the Cub in 2016. Would Hader make the bullpen too LH? ps: can I fix spell correct so Hader doesn't automatically switch over to Vader? He's the most important weapon in the entire organization after Yelich and perhaps Hiura (cost-control). It's going to take a boatload of talent...I'm sure Collins and Stiever alone wouldn't get it done. Equally sure that Vaughn, Collins and Stiever risks an overpay and the fact that he's a significant risk for injury considering how heavily he's been used in the last 2-3 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 7 hours ago, BigFinn said: What would it take to acquire Josh Hader? I know the Yankees picked up 4 lottery tickets from Cleveland for Andrew Miller and 3 lottery tickets and Gleyber Torres from the Cub in 2016. Would Hader make the bullpen too LH? ps: can I fix spell correct so Hader doesn't automatically switch over to Vader? Andrew Miller picked up Clint Frazier AND Justus Sheffield... Frazier was a top 20 prospect and Sheffield a top 80.. They got a lot more than a few lottery tickets,. It would cost for Hader, Vaughn/Madrigal, Dunning + +. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smellysox Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, cjgalloway said: Andrew Miller picked up Clint Frazier AND Justus Sheffield... Frazier was a top 20 prospect and Sheffield a top 80.. They got a lot more than a few lottery tickets,. It would cost for Hader, Vaughn/Madrigal, Dunning + +. No thanks, I'll pass on Hader. And I am a Hader fan. Having a weapon like that out of the bullpen = more than a few wins. But at what cost? You're top 3 or 4 remaining prospects? Your 1st baseman and 2nd baseman of the future? Again, no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 7 hours ago, BigFinn said: What would it take to acquire Josh Hader? I know the Yankees picked up 4 lottery tickets from Cleveland for Andrew Miller and 3 lottery tickets and Gleyber Torres from the Cub in 2016. Would Hader make the bullpen too LH? ps: can I fix spell correct so Hader doesn't automatically switch over to Vader? Doubt hes really even available after the moves the Brewers have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Forgive me since I'm jumping into the thread without reading what people have written thus far. Here's my take: Overall I'd say what, 60? 70%? of bullpen success is pretty finicky. You have your top of the line guys, and they are probably worth the money, but then you have a whole bunch of other guys who may have a year or two years of great success only to go through some downs. Edwin Diaz, Treinen, etc. are just names that pop up. Further to that, the bullpen, to me, is one of the last pieces of the puzzle to acquire to put your team over the top. It doesn't mean you shouldn't have a serviceable pen, but more or less, it's to say you don't go out and get a Chapman, Hader, Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman type of guy unless you are in a true championship window (which i believe will start next year, or more likely 2022). For that reason i'm out on Hader. Now in regards to the rest of the pen guys this offseason, I do think that Hahn missed the boat on a few ... last year we were throwing $9mm at Herrera, and some of these guys are just as serviceable (maybe with less upside) and are going for less. So to me, I think we could have signed some of these guys. However, that being said, you look at a guy like Drew Pomeranz or Andrew Miller, or a whole bunch of other relievers and you see they really were just failed starters. Uberly talented pitchers, but that just didn't have that extra pitch to get through the order a few more times. To me, I think we have those guys internally who can really flourish. Reynaldo Lopez comes mind. We still have Burdi ... I hold out hope there. Basically, I'm pretty against Hader. I'm pretty against going out and signing a big name guy in the future, and would rather go the internal route, while balancing in some high upside FA and seeing if it clicks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowand's rowdies Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Chatwood and cash from Cubs for Fulmer. He's owed $13 million in his last year of a deal, let's throw the Cubs a bone and pay $5 million and let them pay $8 million for a guy to pitch for us. His stuff should play in the AL and he can start if needed. Anyone know anything about this Austin Brice guy the Marlins designated for assignment? I'm also down for bringing Nova back at $5 million. Never enough arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Fegan brought up Ian Kennedy yesterday who could be an interesting guy to watch. Expensive and very good I’m bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, bmags said: Fegan brought up Ian Kennedy yesterday who could be an interesting guy to watch. Expensive and very good I’m bullpen. His velocity jumped coming out of the bullpen. Very good spin rate numbers, good K%, etc. That would be an interesting get. I'd probably make him the closer here if I'm the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, rowand's rowdies said: Chatwood and cash from Cubs for Fulmer. He's owed $13 million in his last year of a deal, let's throw the Cubs a bone and pay $5 million and let them pay $8 million for a guy to pitch for us. His stuff should play in the AL and he can start if needed. Anyone know anything about this Austin Brice guy the Marlins designated for assignment? I'm also down for bringing Nova back at $5 million. Never enough arms. Apparently, it was to make room for the official signing of Corey Dickerson. Brice is 27 years old and had some good numbers last season. I guess he faded in the second half. But surely some NL team will claim him. Edited January 7, 2020 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 35 minutes ago, rowand's rowdies said: Chatwood and cash from Cubs for Fulmer. He's owed $13 million in his last year of a deal, let's throw the Cubs a bone and pay $5 million and let them pay $8 million for a guy to pitch for us. His stuff should play in the AL and he can start if needed. Anyone know anything about this Austin Brice guy the Marlins designated for assignment? I'm also down for bringing Nova back at $5 million. Never enough arms. He's ok. His standard ERA didn't match the advanced stats. Ironically enough, he made his MLB debut against us nearly 4 years ago. Very good curveball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) So far it’s been very boring today in regards to news on signings, etc. Is everyone still away for the holidays or in hibernation? 😂 Edited January 7, 2020 by maloney.adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Jimmy Nelson to the Dodgers for only 750k.... I'd have loved that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) When is the Encarnacion signing going to be officially announced? 😂 Edited January 7, 2020 by maloney.adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, cjgalloway said: Jimmy Nelson to the Dodgers for only 750k.... I'd have loved that. For that price, he’s worth it. However, he simply walks too many guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Cishek it is. Works for me. Can't believe he got a one year deal when Will Harris and Craig Stammen are out here getting multiple years Edited January 7, 2020 by mqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: So far it’s been very boring today in regards to news on signings, etc. Is everyone still away for the holidays or in hibernation? 😂 Wow maybe I should mention this more often. 😂 Edited January 7, 2020 by maloney.adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Where's the fake Cishek's tweet about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, SoxAce said: He's ok. His standard ERA didn't match the advanced stats. Ironically enough, he made his MLB debut against us nearly 4 years ago. Very good curveball. ironically this is a guy that his traditional stats don't match the advanced stats. Sometimes guys just break the advanced stats mold. (Note: his advanced stats aren't super far off) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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