Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Minoso-Pierce-Allen-HOF

****Next Up. (Jan 2, 2020) RHRF and Relief Pitching

Recommended Posts

Review.

Post Luis Robert extension.

 
CF   Luis Robert Rookie Superstud potential.  Best WS prospect since Frank Thomas.  Saw as a 17 year old amateur and saw the wow of a premium talent with a high baseball IQ. The most talented all-around six tool player I have yet seen in the organization. Major talent and a CF who has chops in the field.  Can run, hit, hit with power, field, throw and has the special mind / High baseball IQ / understanding of the game. Once he learns the language and due to his demeanor is going to be truly taken in by the fans in Chicago and across the nation.  Pippin/Jordan/Rodman type talent in a different sport. May not be Mike Trout but like Trout at a young age this is what dreams are made of. Was tremendous leading off last year. A natural even if his name isn't Roy Hobbs. Most gifted athlete to lace up a pair of spikes since Dick Allen on the Southside.  (Signed long-term extension today which could be ultimately worth more than $80M) Can team lock up Moncada and Giolito?  Don't stop now boys.
 
Need a RHRF to platoon with Mazara. 
 
Top three (3) candidates listed.
 

Yasiel Puig FA Tremendous talent but comes with the kind of baggage that may or may not scare off Uncle Jerry who once had Dennis Rodman with the Bulls.  One of the very best defensive RF's in the game and arguably the best throwing arm since the likes of Roberto Clemente and Ichiro Suzuki. Was the most popular  player while on the Dodgers. Since becoming a father he seems more responsible. Cuban connection cannot be overlooked and with a competitive audience environment in Chicago with the Cubs Puig is a headliner that could bring in numbers of fans.  If this is indicative of change in his life Puig rented a helicopter and flew to a Camp for Jewish boys (Camp Simcha) who are ill and led one of the most memorable days any athlete has done out of love for others. There are risks with a clubhouse that is considered excellent and no one wants to rock the boat.  Puig brings an aura to the game that has potential much like Rodman. Note-Puig is fluent in English. (If Sox go with Puig Mazara could be primarily LHDH platoon with possible Mercedes if they do not sign a DH ike Edwin Encarncion - NOW SIGNED or trade for JD Martinez which is unlikely)  Since signing EE Mazara is going to be a platoon RF with Puig, Pence, Pillar, L. Garcia and/or Engel).

       Hunter Pence FA Revamped his entire swing after a disastrous 2018 season after seven very successful years with Giants and two championships.  Fan favorite who works very hard at the game, in fact, so hard that he went to the Dominican Republic after the bad season and completely changed and worked on a new swing. The result he signed a $2M contract with the Texas Rangers and had a very good season hitting against LHP with an OPS of over 1.000. For the money Pence may be a bargain and veteran winning presence that could take the cake for a great value sign here to platoon with Mazara in right.  Pence actually made the All-Star team last year. Experienced winning ball player. Great leader and teammate. Excellent communicator. One of the most underrated players of the past decade. Does not fit the image of the perfect baseball player whose style of play looks a bit strange but the man gets the job done the offensively and defensively with an accurate arm and is truly committed to his craft.  An all-time San Francisco Giants legend. The kind of player and persona that might go over big with Chicago fans and in the clubhouse. Very good guy. Deep desire to always do his best and win and find silver linings even in a loss. One of the most passionate players in the game whose play and preparation are an example to his team. Might really fill the bill. 

       Kevin Pillar FA Simply one of the very best defensive outfielders in the game top talent for CF but plays anywhere and with a high level of superior defense to earn him the nickname 'Superman'. Played for a number of years with the Blue Jays and was traded to Giants where he had his best offensive numbers of his career though much can be related to juiced ball.  Still his defense is among the best in the game. All said I imagine there are clubs looking for a defensive stud in CF so I have my doubts of a White Sox sign here but if anyone thinks Adam Engel can go get it watch Pillar.  Amazing he has never won a Gold Glove. Was surprised the Giants decided not to sign him. Inspiring player.
 
Then someone for the Bullpen likely one and maybe two or one from organization.
 
Shame injuries hit Ian Hamilton (#11 draft choice) and Ryan Burr (#5 draft choice of Arizona acquired via trade) that ended their seasons.
 
Hamilton is short and Burr is tall.
 
Could one or both emerge in 2020?
 
Is Matt Foster a sleeper?  Fairly consistent numbers and throws strikes.  Stocky bulldog type.  (#20 draft choice)
 
Last chance for Carson Fulmer if he can get some spin on the ball otherwise his days with the organization are winding down.  (#1 draft choice)
 
Is same for Dylan Covey? (#1 draft choice unsigned of Milwaukee and drafted again as #4 of Oakland. Acquired via Rule 5 claim) 
 
Jose Ruiz was pretty poor last season.  Former catcher (signed by San Diego) who became a relief pitcher.  So far has shown little in MLB games.  Decent MILB numbers but the show is different.  Does not hide ball well. 
 
Watch Tyler Johnson for later season. Not easy for hitter to pick up.  (#5 draft choice)
 
Zack Burdi who still has not gotten it back since TJ surgery. As discussed in prior post does not hide ball well.  (#1 draft choice)
 
Nonetheless experience in pen for a good team can be essential.
 
All said is age a factor for two-year deals?
 
One of the list appears likely.
 
Will Smith, FA age 35 last with Astros.
 
Craig Stammen, FA age 35 last with Padres.  
 
Daniel Hudson, FA age 33 to start season last with Nationals and former fifth round choice of White Sox traded a long time ago to Arizona for Edwin Jackson.  
 
Steve Cishek, FA age 33 last with Cubs.  Had made public statements given the choice he would like to end up with the Red Sox.
 
Collin McCugh, FA age 32 last with Astros.
 
Brandon Kintzler, FA age 35 last with Cubs. 
 
Pedro Strop, FA age 34 last with Cubs.  
 
et al.
 
And/or trade for a reliever such as 
 
Andrew Miller, age 34 currently with Cardinals. (1-year at $12M for 2020) Hefty numbers for a LHRP.
 
Ken Giles, age 29 currently with Blue Jays ($6.3M for 2019 and FA 2021)
 
Josh Hader, age 25 (FA 2024) Long-shot. Yankees would be favorites.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

M-P-A-H...boy I like your thinking!  If you ever learn to shorten your post you will be my favorite poster.😀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will Smith signed a three-year $39M contract with the Atlanta Braves all the way back in mid November.

Smith, a lefty, who was highly effective for the Giants is from Georgia which made once he got the offer easy.

He was selected in 2019 to his first All-Star Game in his seven-year career and became the closer for the Giants.

Not too man lefty closer's.

Just off the top of my head today we have Aroldis Chapman.

In the past I recall John Franco, Sparky Lyle, Willie Hernandez, Jesse Orosco, Billy Wagner, Tug McGraw, Dave Righetti.

That's from my best recall.

White Sox had at least for one very good season Terry Forster back I believe in 1972 with 29 saves.

Was traded with Goose Gossage after Bill Veeck acquired the team in a deal for one-year wonder Richie Zick and Sixto Martinez.

Forster began with the White Sox as a 19 year young relief pitcher back in 1971 who was with the team through 1976.

One of the most memorable aspects of Forster's career believe it or not was his batting average which was .397 for his career.

That is not a misprint and was over a 16 year span with 86 career at bats.

Forster was a terrific hitter.

Just a sidebar I thought people might enjoy.

Terry who I met as youngster at White Sox Boy's Camp was also unfortunately know for his rather hefty wasteline and his appearances o the David Letterman Show.

Ran a bit out of the lane regarding new Atlanta left-handed relief pitcher Will Smith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am fine with signing one of these outfielders:

Ben Zobrist / Kevin Pillar / Hunter Pence

And signing one of these relievers:

Will Harris / Collin McHugh / Steve Cishek

And trading for Edwin Diaz.

Win division.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 1972 Sox had three young pitchers who could touch 100. Goose Forster and Black Bart. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zobrist in an intriguing player.

One of the best while with TB all around just good players in the game.

Plus he plays multiple positions and does so well.

Missed much of last season due to family matters.

Curious if being from Eureka, Illinois (Peoria area) if his family lives local in the Chicago area.

If they go away from Sanchez and if the price was right Zobrist could make a nice addition to the club as a well experienced winning ball player who can hit from the left side of the plate which the club needs for better balance.

Of course being a switch hitter and being so versatile being able to efficiently play both IF and OF might be a good get.

Very good veteran and a big fav of Hawk and Stone.

Only see it happening at $3-4M.

Last contract with Cubs was $12M per year.

Good thinking.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I am fine with signing one of these outfielders:

Ben Zobrist / Kevin Pillar / Hunter Pence

And signing one of these relievers:

Will Harris / Collin McHugh / Steve Cishek

And trading for Edwin Diaz.

Win division.

Yeah this would be pretty awesome, although as I’d love to buy low on Diaz I worry “low” won’t be low enough for us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Bart Johnson who I believe is either working for or has worked for the White Sox in scouting or some such capacity.

Was also a basketball player who unfortunately got injured and his career never got back on track.

As I recall he had two pretty good years in 1971, then got hurt and had two less than memorable seasons and had a very good year in 1974. after he lost his fastball.

The one player I remember the best who had about the best stuff any lefty had in the past half of so century along with Koufax, Blue and Carlton was Frank Tanana who was the next thing and he got hurt.

He revamped his entire pitching ethos and came back as a soft throwing very good pitcher who went on to win 240 games.

Originally in the Angels rotation with Nolan Ryan.

A shame as today surgery seems to fix many things and Bart Johnson ma have been really good.

Recall he had a distinct and high leg kick like many of the best of most eras and has been forgotten today how to protect the ball making it difficult to see the ball for the hitter.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Minoso-Pierce-Allen-HOF said:

Will Smith signed a three-year $39M contract with the Atlanta Braves all the way back in mid November.

Smith, a lefty, who was highly effective for the Giants is from Georgia which made once he got the offer easy.

He was selected in 2019 to his first All-Star Game in his seven-year career and became the closer for the Giants.

Not too man lefty closer's.

Just off the top of my head today we have Aroldis Chapman.

In the past I recall John Franco, Sparky Lyle, Willie Hernandez, Jesse Orosco, Billy Wagner, Tug McGraw, Dave Righetti.

That's from my best recall.

White Sox had at least for one very good season Terry Forster back I believe in 1972 with 29 saves.

Was traded with Goose Gossage after Bill Veeck acquired the team in a deal for one-year wonder Richie Zick and Sixto Martinez.

Forster began with the White Sox as a 19 year young relief pitcher back in 1971 who was with the team through 1976.

One of the most memorable aspects of Forster's career believe it or not was his batting average which was .397 for his career.

That is not a misprint and was over a 16 year span with 86 career at bats.

Forster was a terrific hitter.

Just a sidebar I thought people might enjoy.

Terry who I met as youngster at White Sox Boy's Camp was also unfortunately know for his rather hefty wasteline and his appearances o the David Letterman Show.

Ran a bit out of the lane regarding new Atlanta left-handed relief pitcher Will Smith.

Damaso Marte and Matt Thornton, briefly...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah this would be pretty awesome, although as I’d love to buy low on Diaz I worry “low” won’t be low enough for us.

I am very curious on the Mets price for him.  He had a down year (ERA) but his peripherals indicate he isn’t likely to be bad next year.  He’s under control for two years.  He is probably one of the only targets I may be okay giving up Collins for.  I just really don’t want to give up on the potential and years of control on Collins.  But I wonder if Collins and Rutherford could get it done?  If the Mets ask for Stiever you tell them to go sit and spin.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Minoso-Pierce-Allen-HOF said:

Will Smith, FA  - 

Daniel Hudson, FA - age 33 to start season last with Nationals and former fifth round choice of White Sox traded a long time ago to Arizona for Edwin Jackson.  
 
Steve Cishek, FA -  age 33 last with Cubs.  Had made public statements given the choice he would like to end up with the Red Sox.
 
Collin McCugh, FA - age 32 last with Astros.
 
Brandon Kintzler, FA - age 35 last with Cubs. 
 

I'd add Zobrist and Cameron Maybin to the right field possibilities but good, full list.

On top of everything you spoke to above, I wonder if the Sox also add a left handed hitting infielder as well I think without a doubt they add a reliever. The infield need & RH side of the RF platoon need are less of a guarantee. A RF addition is probably a good bit more likely than the INF addition.

-I've mentioned Brad Miller much more than any fan should but I think he's cheap, has upside and a great fit.

-Neil Walker would probably cost $1-1.5M and he hit decent when he wasn't in Miami's park. That's cutable if Madrigal is playing well. 

-Scooter Gennett was an All Star and has an 850 OPS over a full season with with his home park playing very similar to ours in 2018. 

-Brock Holt has averaged over 350 PAs a year for the Red Sox the last six years. Carrying a .342 OBP since 2014 coming off of .362 & .369 rates in 2018 and 2019 respectively. All while playing 4-6 positions a year with the majority at 2B where we'd need the most help. 

-Yolmer left on good terms and is likely going to come cheap. I would go another route but its an option.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, raBBit said:

I'd add Zobrist and Cameron Maybin to the right field possibilities but good, full list.

On top of everything you spoke to above, I wonder if the Sox also add a left handed hitting infielder as well I think without a doubt they add a reliever. The infield need & RH side of the RF platoon need are less of a guarantee. A RF addition is probably a good bit more likely than the INF addition.

-I've mentioned Brad Miller much more than any fan should but I think he's cheap, has upside and a great fit.

 -Neil Walker would probably cost $1-1.5M and he hit decent when he wasn't in Miami's park. That's cutable if Madrigal is playing well. 

 -Scooter Gennett was an All Star and has an 850 OPS over a full season with with his home park playing very similar to ours in 2018. 

 -Brock Holt has averaged over 350 PAs a year for the Red Sox the last six years. Carrying a .342 OBP since 2014 coming off of .362 & .369 rates in 2018 and 2019 respectively. All while playing 4-6 positions a year with the majority at 2B where we'd need the most help. 

-Yolmer left on good terms and is likely going to come cheap. I would go another route but its an option.

 

I'm all in on Brock Holt, not only for the versatility and OBP, but because he's someone who's good enough to fill in as a regular in case of an injury to someone like Eloy, Mazara, or Madrigal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

I'm all in on Brock Holt, not only for the versatility and OBP, but because he's someone who's good enough to fill in as a regular in case of an injury to someone like Eloy, Mazara, or Madrigal.

I really don’t see Holt being worth the money with Mendick and Leury around to play 2B/SS and Madrigal soon to be up.  I’d rather sign a right-handed right fielder for the bench.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I really don’t see Holt being worth the money with Mendick and Leury around to play 2B/SS and Madrigal soon to be up.  I’d rather sign a right-handed right fielder for the bench.

I'm not sure I trust Mendick to be productive over large stretches. But I think we can sign both Holt (or someone similar) and a RH RF. I'm also assuming Collins gets traded 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I'm not sure I trust Mendick to be productive over large stretches. But I think we can sign both Holt (or someone similar) and a RH RF. I'm also assuming Collins gets traded 

The Sox don’t need Mendick to be productive over long stretches, unless Madrigal gets hurt.  And they still have Leury.  I don’t think the Sox will sign both an infielder and an outfielder.  I think they will sign one guy, ideally to fill both spots (Zobrist?).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depth is a good thing.  Nothing wrong with adding Holt and pushing Mendick to next man up in AAA.  Nothing wrong with adding Pillar or Pence and pushing Engel to next man up in AAA.  If you can sign these guys at reasonable prices then why the fuck not?  Injuries will no doubt happen and I’d prefer not relying on unproven and/or questionable, low ceiling young players in significant roles if I can avoid it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Depth is a good thing.  Nothing wrong with adding Holt and pushing Mendick to next man up in AAA.  Nothing wrong with adding Pillar or Pence and pushing Engel to next man up in AAA.  If you can sign these guys at reasonable prices then why the fuck not?  Injuries will no doubt happen and I’d prefer not relying on unproven and/or questionable, low ceiling young players in significant roles if I can avoid it.

I think it’s very reasonable to think that the combination of Mendick and Leury could perform as well as Holt at 2B and we already have them.  I have no faith that Engel could perform as well as a myriad of RF options, including Pillar, Pence, and Zobrist.  But whatever, it’s not my money.  Holt will probably go to a team like the Cubs who don’t have much money to spend but he can get the most at bats as a starter at 2B.  The Sox already have Madrigal coming to take the job, along with Leury and Mendick.  I don’t see the fit for Holt and I doubt his agent does either.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I think it’s very reasonable to think that the combination of Mendick and Leury could perform as well as Holt at 2B and we already have them.  I have no faith that Engel could perform as well as a myriad of RF options, including Pillar, Pence, and Zobrist.  But whatever, it’s not my money.  Holt will probably go to a team like the Cubs who don’t have much money to spend but he can get the most at bats as a starter at 2B.  The Sox already have Madrigal coming to take the job, along with Leury and Mendick.  I don’t see the fit for Holt and I doubt his agent does either.

I don't think we have to worry about Engel being anything more than the 26th man. He has value as a pinch-runner and defensive sub. Anything more than that and something has gone horribly wrong. I agree with you regarding Leury/Mendick. They might be good enough in a platoon role, but I think it depends on how the Sox view Garcia heading into this season. He could also serve as the weak-side platoon option for Mazara in RF. At least the Sox have a couple different directions to go. They are lucky Garcia is flexible enough to be utilized all over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I don't think we have to worry about Engel being anything more than the 26th man. He has value as a pinch-runner and defensive sub. Anything more than that and something has gone horribly wrong. I agree with you regarding Leury/Mendick. They might be good enough in a platoon role, but I think it depends on how the Sox view Garcia heading into this season. He could also serve as the weak-side platoon option for Mazara in RF. At least the Sox have a couple different directions to go. They are lucky Garcia is flexible enough to be utilized all over.

And I will counter with the elephant in the room that Eloy and Robert both have had major injury issues in their history and having a competent 4th outfielder is huge. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, fathom said:

And I will counter with the elephant in the room that Eloy and Robert both have had major injury issues in their history and having a competent 4th outfielder is huge. 

Isn’t Garcia technically the 4th OF in case of an injury? I’m not saying they shouldn’t go out and add a guy if he’s available, but Garcia more than proved he’s capable of filling in last season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×